@actuallyautistic Could anyone recommend a book on emotions for Autistic people - preferably BY an Autist. My Autistic 14YO son just asked me for one, but "not one for kids". He says he needs something that discusses emotions and what they feel like, to help him understand how he feels. He knows anxiety all too well, but the more subtle ones are difficult for him to understand.
We're looking ourselves, of course, but so far the recommends we have found have been rather suspect. I value the ActuallyAutistic hive mind's opinions far more than any search engine's!
Please boost for reach ;-)
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@actuallyautistic Thanks for all the pointers! I can see now that there are likely going to be a few book purchases - as an Autistic family, we could all do to read them, and we still have two boys at home who could benefit, plus other family members who might also.
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@cybervegan
Not sure exactly what you mean by "a book on emotions", but "Looking after your autistic self" by @niamhgarvey is a good start.
She also has a new book out, but it's marketed as being for kids (though I know a quite a few adults have found it useful) so that might put your son off.
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@ratcatcher @niamhgarvey He has trouble with interpreting his own emotions - perhaps more, relating his own to the classic set of anger, fear, embarrassment, anxiety, nervousness, and so on.
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@cybervegan
@niamhgarvey may want to comment directly (as a fellow autistic parent of autistic kids) but I'd still suggest her (first) book as a start.
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@ratcatcher @cybervegan Thanks Nick. Yes in my book "Looking After Your Autistic Self" I go through all the main emotions and what to do about them, plus alextyhmia. I couldn't find a similar book when I went looking a few years back, so I wrote it myself.
It is technically for adults and does have a chapter on intimacy (nothing graphic) and consent so you would need decide if suitable for your son.
https://uk.jkp.com/products/looking-after-your-autistic-self
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@niamhgarvey @ratcatcher Thanks Naimh, looks good. Where is the best place to get it from your perspective? I'm assuming straight from the publishers?
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@cybervegan @ratcatcher oh anywhere bar amazon. Is for sale in many UK bookshops and online
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@niamhgarvey @ratcatcher Ordered from JKP!
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@cybervegan @ratcatcher hope it helps your son. I u derstsnd that age is tricky- they are too grown up for kids books but not always ready for the adult books. I've a 13yo with fairly strong alexithymia.
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@niamhgarvey @cybervegan @ratcatcher TIL alexithymia = emotional blindness. Thank you for the vocab to describe my son!
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@DulceMaria @cybervegan @ratcatcher haha it is a vital thing to know if you have as makes everything from communication to emotional regulation so hard. Not having the words for your emotions. Can also include not being to pick up on other people's emotions.
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@niamhgarvey @ratcatcher @cybervegan I need this book in my home
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@ratcatcher @cybervegan @niamhgarvey Likewise - I’m reading Niamh’s book for autist adults & it is very good. She has recently published another book for autistic children.
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@ratcatcher @cybervegan @niamhgarvey I second this recommendation!
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@dramypsyd @ratcatcher @cybervegan 💞
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@cybervegan Prefaced: I am autistic, so at least I'm part of the hivemind, but ... not (as far as I know) by an autist, and the role it serves autists isn't exactly what it's for ... Have you considered looking at books aimed at writers that talk about emotions? I can't remember the title of the one I'm thinking about, but I've seen some where there's both synonyms and a bit on "how to write them". which feels like it might be useful?
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@melindrea You're part of the hive mind if you want to be ;-)
Thank you for your suggestion, though I'm not sure a book written for writers is what we're looking for. If anyone can come up with a title, that might enlighten me, though. It's certainly an angle I wouldn't have thought of.
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@cybervegan Here's probably the one I was thinking about. It has a few samples, and there's also a writing-as-a-service ... but I think that might be overkill >.>
https://writershelpingwriters.net/2010/10/emotion-thesaurus-entry-collection-samples/
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@melindrea
That sounds amazing!
@cybervegan
I'm autistic, I used a list of emotions that were grouped by similar types and just tried to figure out what I was feeling that way. With my autistic eldest, I would list out feelings when she looked like she was having a hard time identifying her internal state. Eventually I would hit one close to what she was experiencing. When that happened, she always recognized the feeling. But she couldn't figure it out on her own.
Idk, I am sorry that I don't have a book suggestion and I am saying I relate to the situation.
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@melanie @melindrea @cybervegan
brain dead but dipping in: Are things like feelings wheels on your radar? Especially teenhood, trying to understand more complex and nuanced feelings.
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@vlrny @melanie @melindrea @cybervegan
I love the concept of this wheel. What I don’t like is that it’s not really correct from a neurobiological point of view.
There are seven primary affects (midbrain), all mapped and described by Jaak Panksepp and the field of Affective Neuroscience that he founded.
So these should really form the center of a wheel like this as they are the basis all “higher” (cortical) processes are based upon.
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@vlrny @melanie @melindrea @cybervegan
One remark I’d have is that there are different kinds of “joy” coming from different primary affects (e.g. CARE, PLAY) It seems our whole culture isn’t very good at identifying and naming emotions! Same for “sadness”.
Also, the primary affect of lust or sexual desire is completely lacking in the center of the wheel. And it’s one that I think would be very important especially for a teenager to understand.
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@vlrny @melanie @melindrea @cybervegan
There are some really nice interviews with Jaak Panksepp on youTube. Such a kind and compassionate person. Also a TEDx talk that might serve as an introduction. Maybe these videos can help, too?
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@nellie_m @vlrny @melanie @melindrea @cybervegan nellie-m I would love to see a infographic based on this concept. Am going to check youtube for what I can find!
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@nellie_m @vlrny @melanie @melindrea @cybervegan This seems to be a good start - audio and transcript https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/gabrielle-usatynski-on-how-to-use-jaak-panksepp-s-7-core-emotions-to-transform-your-relationships-family-career-and-life/
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@nellie_m
Ooo some very good points. I look forward to better iterations of this in the future.
@melanie @melindrea @cybervegan
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@nellie_m @vlrny @melanie @melindrea @cybervegan
https://www.camillapang.com/
Explaining Humans.
Totally brilliant, vulnerable and on point.
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@vlrny @melanie @melindrea @cybervegan
.
geez, I like that
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic possibly a weird recommendation, but I'm currently in book 5 of 7 of the Murderbot series and it's.. 😗👌
My 14-year-old self would've loved it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/murderbot/s/nE3Ma2me1R
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@cambraca @actuallyautistic Thanks! He's an avid reader, so this might just appeal :-)
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@cambraca @cybervegan @actuallyautistic
A good recommendation!
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic
Donno if these qualify, but -
https://www.amazon.com/Awesome-Autistic-Guide-Feelings-Emotions/dp/1839977388/
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@liliedubh @actuallyautistic Thanks, they might qualify if he can get past the fact that they're "for kids"!
Suggestion appreciated none the less.
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic
A lot of the books out there seem to be geared towards younger children, and the other books we saw were scientific adult studies. There aren't really books for tweens/teens.
A niche that needs filling!
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@liliedubh @actuallyautistic Indeed... but of course he says he doesn't want something aimed at teens... he's so grown up! LOL. Definitely a niche there though.
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@cybervegan Does he know about interoception and alexythymia? From my personal experience reading things about emotions don’t help me to understand them. I know them intellectually but I can only identify and feel only a few of them.
The feeling wheel and other tools in the link below might be helpful (it’s a long article)
https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/the-feelings-wheel
[#]ActuallyAutistic
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@cybervegan
I like "Untypical" by Pete Wharmby. But it's more about finding adaptations, not really about emotions.
Still, I'm thinking of it because I often identify my emotions through my actions (like if I shake my hands, I realize I'm stressed).
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic
a book on emotions for Autistic people - preferably BY an Autist
inb4 "the illiad"
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@unspeaker @actuallyautistic He's reading the Iliad as part of his Classical CIvilisation GCSE.
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@cybervegan @unspeaker @actuallyautistic
.
gawd, Homer is the distillation if the super-Allist’s mind, of the warrior ants’ emotions. But as long as we all know that, I guess.
.
I would add Don Quixote, maybe. 😘
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic +1 on the Murderbot Diaries! I also remember liking Nerdy, Shy, and Socially Inappropriate but it's been a few years so I don't remember how much discussion of emotional processing/recognition there was.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22226939-nerdy-shy-and-socially-inappropriate
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic hmmm. I don't see any of the replies..... someone mentioned that this happens on mastodon. Might be a huge flaw. Id like to see some answers to this for myself if you could repost some
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@XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic Oh, not sure why Xeno. I think others have been seeing replies... maybe it's just pubsub latency or something? I've boosted and reposted most of them already (I think anyway).
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@cybervegan @XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic
here’s an explanation why (first link) and a workaround if you want to see all replies (second link). It’s good to remember that if you visit the original page in your browser, you can only read, not like/boost/comment.
https://fedi.tips/why-arent-all-mastodon-and-fediverse-posts-and-accounts-automatically-visible-from-all-servers/
https://fedi.tips/what-are-original-pages-in-mastodon/
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@nellie_m @cybervegan @XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic
Thank you! I'm new to the fediverse, so I'm still learning how everything does (or doesn't) connects 🐸❤
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@heavenslittlebastard @cybervegan @XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic
that website is a gold mine! Some kind soul recommended it when I first came here, and I bookmarked it and still go back to it sometimes. Really cool tips and explanations how things work. Lists! Search options! Filters!
It’s the manual that should have been in the box 😜 You can also follow its creator @FediTips for more Fedi tips 😊
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@heavenslittlebastard @nellie_m @XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic Welcome! It can be a bit overwhelming but it starts making sense quite soon. When you're used to being fed posts by an algorithm, it can be a bit jarring when everything you see is by choice.
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@cybervegan @nellie_m @XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic
Tumblr is really good about not really having an algorithm. Your main feed is just people you follow, in chronological order.
Sometimes they try adding a new feature to sprinkle in posts chosen / promoted by an algorithm, and then a post with thousands of notes goes around telling everyone how to turn it off, lol.
It's the "instances" that's still throwing me off, since I'm coming from centralized social media. I understand it in theory (different servers connected together using a common protocol), but I'm still adjusting to the nuances in practice.
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@heavenslittlebastard @cybervegan @XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic
It’s been compared to email where everyone can have their own domain and mailbox, or ger an account with big tech like gmail.
That’s not 100% accurate of course but can roughly give an idea - at least to people who understand email 😂 (not my mum, for instance who still can’t figure out the difference between user name and password…)
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@nellie_m @cybervegan @actuallyautistic this is great info! I run my own very small server, ill look into what tweaks I can use to make this issue better for me and my users!
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@XenoDangerEvil
you want FediFetcher then. I can’t find the link right now but that’s what solves it for small instances. I’ll get back to when I dug it up.
Edit: here you go.
https://social.growyourown.services/@homegrown/110442744209438624
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@XenoDangerEvil @actuallyautistic I've just gone down and boosted everything substantive - a lot happened whilst I was out today, so much to go through!
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic thanks!
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic
(don't think he's autistic ...) https://drdansiegel.com/book/parenting-from-the-inside-out/
great lecture https://autismwellnessfoundation.org/post/looking-at-autism-through-the-lens-of-trauma-theory/
SANDS back ~ 2012 when my grandson was about 4 ? https://scienceandnonduality.com/videos/can-trauma-be-passed-down-through-our-genes/
think I could have a bit of a "epigenetic" carry over ? 🚬
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic
thanks.... gets a little "metaphysical" (for me) trying to remember old or recent dreams, (including a few fearful like scary "nightmare" ) , not really sure about the "lore" of dreamcatchers.... it is a bit of a mindful conscious effort to tell ones self "that is a nice setting" I would like to have a dream like that even without any ("good" weed) or with out too many other "substances" ... e.g. we are not always mindful of our ability to do simple things like walking or closing our eyes and touching our fingers (interosubjective gut feeling/ propreceptive (where is my finger R key without looking )
kinda like the words hypnopompic and hypnogogic (dream catcher) ? but not often do I catch myself dreaming or thinking about yet another warm ☕
although his sense of direction of the small outlet (~SSW) gets a little messed up under the "current" (Stellarium) Star map on his PC)
"some mornings" (when the Sun rises on the left , Eastern standard ⏱️ ⌚
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic
Not exactly a book about emotions, but maybe worth to note:
The curious incident of the Dog in the Night-Time
By Mark Haddon
It's funny story about a nerdy teenage autistic boy with trouble understanding emotions
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@LegoPink @actuallyautistic Thanks, yep we have it, and all of them have read it. It was the book that made my 19YO step daughter wonder if she was Autistic, and turned out she is.
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic I had this recommended to me earlier this year - https://howtobeautistic.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/how-to-be-autistic.pdf. It’s free to download too! 👍
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@cybervegan @actuallyautistic
I found "Atlas of the Heart" by Brené Brown to be pretty good for providing language for feelings and communicating with others. It's not specifically for autism, nor specifically for teens.
It was helpful for me as I was leaning more into "embodying" my emotions, that is to just observe how you feel in your body in different situations. A simple example "Do you like cats?", is usually a yes. Is there a sensation in your chest? Face? Back? etc. It's very useful for helping parse more complicated feelings if you have practiced embodying fundamental ones. Then to communicate with others what you are feeling requires mouth words, and that's where Atlas of the Heart was very useful.
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