Ancestors

Toot

Written by Benjamin Ross on 2024-12-30 at 13:12

Waymo (aka Google) admits that it trains its robotaxis to break the law. When WaPo reporter finds robotaxis fail to stop for pedestrians in marked crosswalk 70% of the time, Waymo says it follows "social norms" rather than laws.

Expert explains: When robotaxis obey law, they don't go fast enough to compete successfully with Uber, so Google execs ordered engineers to ignore laws.

https://wapo.st/3ZZDifm

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from BenRossTransit@mastodon.social

Descendants

Written by S Bodzin, Real American 🇺🇸 on 2024-12-30 at 13:15

@BenRossTransit "safer than human drivers" they said

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from stevenbodzin@thepit.social

Written by Tor Iver Wilhelmsen on 2024-12-30 at 14:29

@stevenbodzin @BenRossTransit «We meant drunk drivers. Safer than drunk drivers.»

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from toriver@mas.to

Written by Samhain Night on 2024-12-31 at 00:13

@toriver @stevenbodzin @BenRossTransit Not necessarily.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from samhainnight@mstdn.social

Written by ts 🚉 on 2024-12-31 at 02:11

@samhainnight @toriver @stevenbodzin @BenRossTransit yeah, my sense is that the vast majority dangerous driving is done sober. People are given poorly-designed infrastructure and pushed to do more stuff in less time. Efficiency is such a funny word in the era of enshittification

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from tsyum@thepit.social

Written by Old Man in the Shoe on 2024-12-31 at 15:15

@tsyum use real words, you lost me when you used that word to describe a complex problem

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jenzi@mastodon.social

Written by James Britt on 2024-12-30 at 17:49

@stevenbodzin @BenRossTransit

Safer for whom?

Not the unsuspecting pedestrian.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jamesbritt@mastodon.social

Written by NYC Glue on 2024-12-30 at 13:28

@BenRossTransit NYS is already OK with law breaking enabling behavior of Google Maps and Waze. Should be OK with Waymo too I suppose.. Maybe they'll employ devices that cover their license plates automatically also because that's becoming a norm.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Iragersh@mstdn.social

Written by Old Man in the Shoe on 2024-12-31 at 15:17

@Iragersh @BenRossTransit You're not going to tell us how Google Maps breaks the law?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jenzi@mastodon.social

Written by NYC Glue on 2024-12-31 at 16:26

@jenzi @BenRossTransit

speed gun or radar warnings? Creating distracting devices? Can you enter a warning into their system without taking your eyes off the road?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Iragersh@mstdn.social

Written by Old Man in the Shoe on 2024-12-31 at 17:31

@Iragersh @BenRossTransit Ok so not really because drivers don't have to do those things and most don't ... or have evolved to not fall into the false dichotomy trap laid for them

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jenzi@mastodon.social

Written by cassie on 2025-01-04 at 20:52

@Iragersh @jenzi @BenRossTransit plenty of cars have more than one person in them

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from porglezomp@mastodon.social

Written by Nazani on 2024-12-30 at 13:43

@BenRossTransit The social norm is to take preventative action against threats. 😼

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Nazani@universeodon.com

Written by Kid Mania on 2024-12-30 at 16:30

@Nazani @BenRossTransit

⬆️ FACT.

=> View attached media

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from clintruin@mastodon.social

Written by Tito Swineflu on 2024-12-30 at 13:46

@BenRossTransit Aha! I knew something was happening with the aggressiveness of their algorithm when one of them tried to beat a Muni bus at a light and nearly hit me!

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from tito_swineflu@sfba.social

Written by sidereal on 2024-12-30 at 17:36

@tito_swineflu @BenRossTransit Straight up, I will not go to San Francisco anymore because I don't want to get hit with one of these things.

Yes, I could be hit by a car anywhere in America, but I don't mind as much the idea of being run down by human error.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from sidereal@kolektiva.social

Written by Tito Swineflu on 2024-12-30 at 19:22

@sidereal @BenRossTransit i think the normal drivers are about 1000x more likely to kill you, which is reason enough to stay away

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from tito_swineflu@sfba.social

Written by Frank Bennett on 2024-12-30 at 23:25

@tito_swineflu @sidereal @BenRossTransit From paved surfaces?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from fgbjr@indieweb.social

Written by Tito Swineflu on 2024-12-30 at 23:57

@fgbjr @sidereal @BenRossTransit i don't understand

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from tito_swineflu@sfba.social

Written by Frank Bennett on 2024-12-31 at 00:27

@tito_swineflu @sidereal @BenRossTransit If drivers are 1000x more likely to kill you than a self-driving car, that sounds pretty dangerous. So like parking lots, roads, sidewalks, places like that not be safe. But maybe I misunderstood. Just erring on the side of caution. 😉

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from fgbjr@indieweb.social

Written by Tito Swineflu on 2024-12-31 at 00:32

@fgbjr @sidereal @BenRossTransit you should also avoid going into stores: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/car-crashes-into-walgreens-store-in-san-franciscos-west-portal-2-injured/

Especially 7-11s: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbsun.com/2023/02/08/one-mans-case-reveals-cars-slam-into-storefronts-like-7-eleven-with-alarming-frequency/amp/

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from tito_swineflu@sfba.social

Written by Frank Bennett on 2024-12-31 at 00:41

@tito_swineflu @sidereal @BenRossTransit I narrowly escaped the onslaught by leaving the country 35 years ago.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from fgbjr@indieweb.social

Written by Ryek Darkener on 2024-12-30 at 14:42

@BenRossTransit

The way of thinking of average car-guys programmed into Artificial Intelligence. What can possibly go wrong.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from RyekDarkener@mastodon.social

Written by Rob Carlson on 2024-12-30 at 15:20

@BenRossTransit Sounds like a fantastic municipal revenue opportunity

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from vees@epistolary.org

Written by Samhain Night on 2024-12-31 at 00:17

@vees @BenRossTransit How do you ticket a self driving car anyway? Would they even pull over for a cop? And if they did, how do you get the driver's license and registration?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from samhainnight@mstdn.social

Written by Rob Carlson on 2024-12-31 at 00:20

@samhainnight @BenRossTransit Impound it and wait to see who shows up to collect it

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from vees@epistolary.org

Written by Samhain Night on 2024-12-31 at 00:30

@vees @BenRossTransit Oo! I like that!

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from samhainnight@mstdn.social

Written by Coach Pāṇini ® on 2024-12-31 at 00:37

@vees @samhainnight @BenRossTransit

=> View attached media

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from paninid@mastodon.world

Written by Julie Webgirl on 2024-12-31 at 06:57

@samhainnight

I've watched videos of this. When cop walks up, the window rolls down and "connected to driver support. This call may be recorded for public reassurance." Then there's a conversation between cop and human playing back footage to see what happened. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

@vees @BenRossTransit

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from juliewebgirl@mstdn.social

Written by Samhain Night on 2024-12-31 at 16:31

@juliewebgirl @vees @BenRossTransit So if a self driving car has too many tickets, who loses their license?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from samhainnight@mstdn.social

Written by Julie Webgirl on 2024-12-31 at 17:10

@samhainnight

Or if they cause a death... who gets charged? Who goes to prison?

@vees @BenRossTransit

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from juliewebgirl@mstdn.social

Written by Samhain Night on 2024-12-31 at 17:37

@juliewebgirl @vees @BenRossTransit Exactly!

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from samhainnight@mstdn.social

Written by RejZoR on 2024-12-30 at 15:37

@BenRossTransit When individual breaks a law, he broke it. In this case it's a decisive decision to disobey laws en mass by execs and then by engineers. This should be criminalized to full extent because they are literally normalizing breaking the law.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from rejzor@mastodon.world

Written by Robbie 🇧🇪 :tux: on 2024-12-30 at 15:42

@BenRossTransit So.... I'm just going to assume that when (if?) they start appearing on roads over here putting traffic cones on them is considered following social laws 😎

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from deightonrobbie@mastodon.green

Written by NYC Glue on 2024-12-30 at 17:23

@deightonrobbie @BenRossTransit A good reason to save those traffic cones!

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Iragersh@mstdn.social

Written by gunstick on 2025-01-01 at 09:11

@Iragersh @deightonrobbie @BenRossTransit like any other human driver, the self driving car should just get out and remove the cone.

...

Oh!

🤣

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gunstick@mastodon.opencloud.lu

Written by Peter Butler on 2024-12-30 at 15:58

@BenRossTransit

archived:

http://archive.today/y3mxB

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from peterbutler@mas.to

Written by McWabbit 🍋🌻🍉 on 2024-12-30 at 15:59

@BenRossTransit Then it is a socially accepted norm to block these robotaxis from the streets.

Venture capitalists and big tech always skirt the laws because they know it will take a long while to amend and modernize said laws to include their blatant violations.

It's time for a change in which new technologies and services are put under heavy scrutiny before they are allowed to operate freely. People before capitalism.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from McWabbit@tenforward.social

Written by Artemis on 2024-12-30 at 16:00

@BenRossTransit

So...who pays the ticket and who gets their license taken away if they get repeatedly caught breaking traffic laws?

Human drivers can lose the privilege of driving...so should programs.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from artemis@dice.camp

Written by Agnieszka R. Turczyńska on 2024-12-30 at 16:04

@BenRossTransit If only child prams wouldn't be so expensive, someone could walk a town with a one full of bricks...

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from agturcz@circumstances.run

Written by Kagan MacTane on 2024-12-30 at 16:07

@BenRossTransit That "free" link only works for people who have a WaPo account.

Here's a truly free version: https://archive.is/y3mxB

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from kagan@wandering.shop

Written by Dusk To Don :raccoon: on 2024-12-30 at 16:31

@BenRossTransit

Ah, we're just gonna keep grafting toxic + discriminatory "societal norms" onto our tech, aren't we . . .

And speaking of crosswalks:

Drivers of expensive cars less likely to yield for pedestrians
Researchers also found that motorists overall yielded less frequently for men and non-whites

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200226171110.htm

⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘⫘

And, lastly, this gem (though, to have an impact on Waymos, a real brick may be required)

[#]fuckCars

=> View attached media

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from dusk@todon.eu

Written by Gulf of Gregly on 2024-12-31 at 02:21

@dusk @BenRossTransit Gonna campaign for a pedestrian crossing that raises spike strips on either side whenever someone is using it

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gregly@retro.pizza

Written by David W. Jones on 2024-12-31 at 03:41

@gregly

So the car's tires get shredded and it can't steer or stop? Doesn't sound safe to me, but it would definitely discourage drivers!

@dusk @BenRossTransit

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from dancingtreefrog@mastodon.social

Written by Shannon Skinner has moved on 2024-12-30 at 16:43

@BenRossTransit

New "social norm" on the horizon:

Pedestrians carrying baseball bats to smash the shit out of any autonomous vehicles that fail to stop when a pedestrian enters a designated crosswalk.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from shansterable@c.im

Written by Resistor McResistanceFace on 2024-12-30 at 16:52

@BenRossTransit

"the oligarch and their toys exist outside law and without order" - a nation with the largest prison population on Earth

Dystopia is built one lie at a time, like bricks only broken

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from mlbellar@universeodon.com

Written by Jeroen Massar on 2024-12-30 at 17:29

@BenRossTransit @nblr A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

well so much for that... did not last long eh Asimov... profit over people... :(

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jeroen@secluded.ch

Written by ~n on 2024-12-30 at 17:41

@jeroen Those laws imho are fundamentally flawed and were just created to prove the very same ad nauseam and in too many works.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from nblr@chaos.social

Written by Jeroen Massar on 2024-12-30 at 17:33

@nblr yep, that is quite true; humans will use any tool possible to get ahead irrespective if that is good for humans, animals or the planet.... short lived gains...

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jeroen@secluded.ch

Written by ~n on 2024-12-30 at 17:48

@jeroen That was a comment re: asimov’s œuvre rather than humans.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from nblr@chaos.social

Written by James Britt on 2024-12-30 at 17:51

@BenRossTransit

Cool cool.

I think Luigi has established some new social norms as well.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jamesbritt@mastodon.social

Written by Ehay2k on 2024-12-30 at 18:21

@BenRossTransit

I can say from personal experience that I find this 100% true. I was in SF and trying to cross Market where Kearney and Geary intersect. The robotaxi was trying to turn (I recall it was a left onto Kearny) but was confused by the lights and multiple crosswalks, and eventually drove through the intersection even though there were pedestrians, including me, in the crosswalk. Damn thing just missed us.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Ehay2k@mastodon.social

Written by jonathankoren™ on 2024-12-30 at 18:49

@BenRossTransit a lot of people telling lies in this thread

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jonathankoren@sfba.social

Written by Julianoë on 2024-12-30 at 20:38

@BenRossTransit I hope people sabotage the shit out of those invading things. Just another way for corporations to steal the city from people living in it.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Julianoe@mastodon.xyz

Written by Djeannot on 2024-12-30 at 20:41

@BenRossTransit

I wish they tried that at the Border in Ireland, like in the movie "Cal" !

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Djeannot@mastodon.zaclys.com

Written by Carolyn on 2024-12-30 at 21:23

@BenRossTransit Those taking and supporting this industry need to be aware of what they are supporting.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from CStamp@mastodon.social

Written by Fish Id Wardrobe on 2024-12-30 at 22:22

@BenRossTransit let's just assume, for LOLs, that a human driver might be prosecuted for breaking the rules at a crossing (as he would be in the UK or EU).

Who would you prosecute in the case of a so-called autonomous vehicle? Do we even know?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from fishidwardrobe@mastodon.me.uk

Written by Robin Capper on 2024-12-31 at 07:27

@fishidwardrobe @BenRossTransit Because Waymo own it, and do the hardware/software, them. Now imagine it was a privately owned Tesla in 'Full (of shite) self-driving' mode? Owner or Tesla?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from robincapper@mastodon.nz

Written by Fish Id Wardrobe on 2024-12-31 at 07:31

@robincapper @BenRossTransit hmm. if I'm driving a regular vehicle and my brakes fail so I can't stop at a crossing, or when a cop tells me to, say — am I liable or is the manufacturer? Even if it turns out the failure is a vehicle design fault? I suspect I'm still liable.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from fishidwardrobe@mastodon.me.uk

Written by scott f on 2024-12-30 at 22:47

@BenRossTransit Yup, and the problem with letting robotaxi fleets follow "norms" is their unique ability to subtly and unaccountably change those "norms" by changing their programming. I wrote about this last year: https://scott.mn/2023/08/19/bad_incentives_make_autonomous_vehicles_unsafe/

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from scott@carfree.city

Written by 🅺🅸🅼 🆂🅲🅷🆄🅻🆉 on 2024-12-30 at 23:00

@BenRossTransit

I felt more secure in the waymos I have tried compared to the ubers I used in the same area

@Viss

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from kimschulz@social.data.coop

Proxy Information
Original URL
gemini://mastogem.picasoft.net/thread/113741945338201172
Status Code
Success (20)
Meta
text/gemini
Capsule Response Time
725.069179 milliseconds
Gemini-to-HTML Time
27.876691 milliseconds

This content has been proxied by September (3851b).