Get in loser, we're doing science.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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Three hours later, and the light's are still on. So it would last for a commute, at least.
I'm taking a reading every hour with a multimeter - both volts and amps. I need some more components to wire in the power meter.
| Time | Volts | mAh |
| ---- | ---- | ---- |
| 00m | 12.44 | 16.7 |
| 60m | 11.36 | 15.4 |
| 120m | 10.45 | 13.87 |
| 180m | 9.28 | 12.26 |
The specs say these LEDs are 12V 2A, and the battery is 12V 5A so shouldn't it have already gone out yet? (Not that I am complaining...)
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An update - the battery died just short of four hours, reading 0.0 V at P+/P- and 8.4 V at B+/B-, which tells me that the BMS went into standby. I reset it by plugging it into the charge for a split second, and the lights came back on for a few minutes.
So, four hours at full power, give or take. Tomorrow, we'll try it at 50% power to see if it lasts eight hours.
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I also need to test it with the LED rope light; it has fewer LEDs and may last longer. I should also test it with three 12" segments to emulate what a spoke based setup would look like.
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I am, as they say, an idiot. Or more precisely, self taught at electronics and still learning.
The 12V LED strip is wired in series parallel, with three LEDs to a series. Each series draws about 20 mA. There are about 150 LEDs in the strip, so fifty serieses each drawing 20 mA, for about 1,000 mA.
Which explains why the battery only lasted four hours.
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So, that would mean that a 3 or 4 LED module on its own would last around 250 hours; three modules would last around 80 hours. A trio of 12" light bars would last 20 hours. In theory.
So, the trade off - do I want bright lights around the whole rim that need to be charged every day, or do I build a lower density light strip that can last for a week or two? Or settle for three line of lights that blur together into a disk? Or three modules of lights that blur together into a ring?
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Coming full circle, if I went back to the glow in the dark rims powered by four small sets of UV LEDs, a 12V battery could power that for days, maybe weeks.
But then I'm limited by color, and daylight. Although I should test how well glow in the dark filament does compared to glow in the dark paint...
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Test two underway - same setup as before, an 8' 12V LED strip powered by a 12V 5A battery in a custom 3D printed case, simulating a bike wheel rim light.
Prior results - About 4 hours runtime at 100% brightness
Prediction - About 8 hours runtime at 50% brightness
Science!
[#]biketooter #diy #electronics #3edprinting
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Test two has exceeded the benchmark set by test one - after five hours at 50%, the lights are still illuminated, and do not appear to have dimmed. Although since the battery reads around 9V, I don't know if it will make it to eight hours.
Also of note - the factory length of the LED strips was about 98" (2.5m) - but I only need 70" for the bike rims. So in theory I should get 30% more battery life than what my bench tests have shown.
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Test two just passed seven hours.
And I am finding beauty in the math.
At factory length, the strips had 300 LEDs (120 / m). When cut down to fit my bike wheels (70"), it's about 210 LEDs.
I also have an LED rope light that has an bulb every inch - so cut down to fit my bike wheels it's about 70 LEDs.
So, in theory, the rope light should last 3x as long as the LED strip.
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Which one has more ✨️aesthetic ✨️ (poll in reply)?
[#]bikeTooter #3dprinting
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Which one has more ✨️aesthetic✨️ (photos in previous toot)?
[#]bikeTooter #3dprinting
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Test three has been underway all day, using the LED rope light meant for marine uses.
After seven hours, it has drained the battery from 12.4V down to 11.4 V - for comparison, the LED strip did that in an hour at full brightness, and in two hours at 50% brightness.
Which makes sense, as the rope light has approximately 1/5th as many LEDs as the strip.
I am suspect that the rope light could last 24 hours, but I am confident a smaller setup - maybe three strips along the spokes - could.
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Test three has hit the 24 hour mark.
Judging by the voltage reading on the battery and prior tests, it will last for a few more hours. But 24 hours of illumination would be enough for two weeks given my usual riding habits - a month if I only used it when commuting.
I'm pleased by the results, and looking forward to what "light bars" on the spokes will manage.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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I ran the lights for a few more hours tonight - they finally went out at around twenty seven and a half hours. Not bad.
I should probably stress test the cheap bike wheel lights I got that run on three AAAs to get a comparison, even if comparing a 5V strand of twenty micro LEDs to a 12V strand of 66 LED is probably silly.
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I have one last design change I'm considering for the battery case.
Currently it's printed in six separate pieces, which are then paired into three cases. Each case has half a hinge on either side that gets fastened to its neighbor to make a full ring.
Now I could make the hinges print in place, resulting in two assemblies that print in place. But that would force it to print flat on the bed, and each individual piece already has a lot of surface area, so it sticks to the bed until cooled...
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The advantage of the print in place hinges is it makes the design idiot proof - it goes from six parts that can be incorrectly paired to two parts that can only be assembled one way.
The disadvantage is the print probably can't be auto ejected; it's not something I can test at home. So that would close off the ability for me to bulk order them and offer DIY kits with all the parts (sans batteries).
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...actually, I just realized - making the hinges print in place would introduce more slop in the hinges because there would have to be a gap to prevent the pieces from melting together while printing.
So nevermind. Maybe I can add some finding features so that each half of a shell can only fit together with its counterpart.
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One thing that's always bugged me about the case is that it prints flat, which means it has about 4,000 mm^2 of surface area in contact with the bed. This makes it difficult to remove, even once the bed is fully cooled.
Printing it slanted means less surface area in contact with the bed - about 1,000 mm^2, and a uniform surface texture.
The slicer is complaining a little about the threads, but I think it will be fine. We'll know in about two hours.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #3dprinting
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One minor change to the design is that I need to change from flat head screws to socket head screws - countersunk screw holes are a liability when printing at an angle because it results in unsupported overhangs. Switching to hex shaped counterbores solves the problem.
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The slanted print worked, although I need to adjust the interface at the bottom to use many short sprues instead of one long one.
I still need to figure out what to do about the countersunk screw holes, because I prefer flat head screws for the design. I guess I'll have to do some sort of support; maybe a sacrificial layer?
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The cells for the second battery arrive tomorrow, and I'm doing the final wiring on the neon LED strips for both wheels.
Soon...
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I need to find a better solution for wrapping the wires because overlapping segments of heat shrink looks tacky.
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Whose got two thumbs and forgot to post the first look photos in this thread?
This guy!
https://mas.to/@yantor3d/113808240398098366
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Technically speaking, the hub battery is at MVP. I've ironed out the major issues with the case, and with assembly and wiring. I've got a battery installed in both wheels and lights, too.
The outstanding issue is how to deal with variety of outer diameters on hubs. I've got a temporary fix - closed cell foam - but it seems like a jack. I'm experimenting with grip fins on the case itself and they work up to a point. I'm also going to try a flexible spacer.
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TIL that soldering 5mm RGB LED strips is a special hell. It can be done, but it's too easy to break the connections while installing them on a bike wheel.
CW: flashing lights.
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I've got five meters of RGB LED strip, so I'll try again tomorrow. Sunset is soon and I want to take the lights I have out for a field test.
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Field test one was a successful failure.
I set out around sunset. The lights were bright and the batteries were tight. But, both were dark when I got home.
I don't know when the rear light cut out, or why. My theory is either the battery wasn't charged or it shorted in the rain (because Portland).
The front light went out when I accidently went up and over the median in an unlit intersection of a side street. I assume it got jostled and maybe something shorted.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #electronics
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Both batteries reset when I got home and plugged them into the charger, so I assume the internals are still good.
Still, this got me thinking; the BMS I'm using is the DF Robot FIT0809 - because it's the only one I could find from a reputable supplier. It can be reset by connecting a charger, or by shorting P+ / B+.
Now, taking the battery off the wheel and opening up the case on the side of the road to reset it sounds stupid. But what about wiring in a reset button?
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My up and over with the median had me worried that one of cells had come out of the clips, or a clip had come free from the case. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen but now I wonder if I can come up with a more robust solution - maybe 3D printed clips in both halves of the shell, so the cells are totally immobilized?
Jarvis, start a new design file in the hub battery project for the mark VII iteration.
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Hub battery mark 7v1 has been sent to the printer. We'll see if it works in two hours and thirty minutes.
I've shifted from using metal clips (Mouser 534-247) to a 3D printed clip with spring clips (Mouser 789-209). This should completely immobilize the cells in the case, and will eliminate the need to secure the clips with glue, which has the added benefit of making it more repairable.
One downside of this design is it uses more filament - 60g vs 45g.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #3dprinting
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The mark 7v1 worked a little too well; I had to (carefully) destroy the case to get the battery cell back out with just one spring clip installed.
Oops.
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Iterating some more on the hub battery case I've embraced the kind of geometry only practical with 3D printing to solve some of the issues caused by switching to the leaf spring battery clips; namely that it means there needs to be a wall at either end of the battery, 8mm wide, 1.6mm thick, and 12mm tall, more or less centered on the cell, which is 21mm in diameter.
So rather than waste a lot of filament building up to that height, I'll model an arch across the case.
[#]3dprinting
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Eight billion people on the planet, and not one of them runs a business selling 3/8" LED rope light at custom lengths in all colors.
Capitalism was a mistake.
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One of the many advantages to working from home is I can take breaks and work on personal projects.
I've printed both halves of a mark 7 iteration and it's amazing. The cell is fully immobilized by the case itself, and the flying buttresses that the battery clips are on provide cable management for the wires.
I need to re-add all the finishing touches, and tweak the shape of the flying buttresses, but it's very close...
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The downside of being close having a finished design is then I need to make a decision about what, if anything, to do with it above and beyond my own use.
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I ordered tiny buttons for the reset switch and they are, in fact, tiny.
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Field test two of the hub battery was also my first day biking to work in the new year with a high in the low 30s and fog.
A wire came loose in the front battery during morning commute. But the rear battery held up for the whole 26 mile round trip.
The vibe of riding with the wheel lights on at night is like the HUD indicator in co-op video games that highlights your allies.
[#]bikeTooter
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The more I spin my wheels on it, the more I realize why this sort of things doesn't exist as commercial product.
A 6' LED strip with an RF mini controller connected to a 12V S3 battery with a custom case has a frustratingly high number of supply chains; up to five if you're shopping around for the best prices: a print farm, a battery supplier, an electronics supplier, an LED supplier, and a hardware store.
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After repairing the front wheel battery I've identified a second fault - the Keystone Electronics 247 battery clips have a bad habit of permanently bending to the point where they no longer contact the battery.
Nothing some folded up tin foil can't solve.
So my switch to the Keystone Electronics 209 leaf spring contacts is needful.
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Tonight's commute confirmed my suspicions that the current iteration of the hub battery I have on my bike is very susceptible to a hard shock, like going off a curb.
I'm not sure if something in the BMS can detect the drop and shut down, or if it jolted some of the wiring and caused a short.
Either way, the next iteration fully immobilizes the cells, and I now know to do a drop test.
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Whelp, any notion I had of trying to set up and sell full kits - batteries and lights - just went out the window.
The CC LED Glow Ride Plasma bicycle Wheel Lights Kit includes batteries, chargers, lights with remote for two wheels for $129.
The whole reason I went down the road of trying to build my own was that in their original product, they used zip ties to attach the battery to the hub, and a weird proprietary plug.
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Now that they're using standard 2.1mm plugs and an RF controller, their offering is basically what I've been building towards.
My battery has a larger capacity, though. So there is that.
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Thinking about it some more, it's not clear from the photos of their LED controllers are an inline dimmer switch or an RF receiver; given the photo doesn't show a remote, I'm going to assume the former.
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I have a hot date tonight.
With a soldering iron.
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For most of the prototyping phase I've been filling the gap between the battery case and the hub with closed cell foam, because it's squishy and doesn't require a precise fit. But it always felt like a temporary solution.
Now that I've settled on a case design (only took seven finals...) I want a more elegant solution.
So I've printed to spacers - one with standoffs, one with grip fins - to close the gap. We'll see which one works better.
Black PETG really doesn't photograph well...
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Something interesting I just noticed; 3/8" LED rope light costs, on average, two to four times what 1/2" LED rope light does.
Wat.
Still unable to find a place that sells 1/2" by the foot, though; the best I could do was somewhere that sells it in 10' increments.
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So what did you do tonight?
[#]bikeTooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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If you're wondering why the plugs are spliced in using wire nuts, it's because I'm not good at soldering multiple wires together.
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I've been researching wholesale suppliers for the components for a complete wheel light kit - consisting of a hub battery and a 6' length of LED rope light with an RF controller.
In theory, I could get the cost per unit for materials down to $30. But that doesn't factor in the cost of overseas shipping, and is vulnerable to tariffs.
Without the rope light, I can get all the components domestically*. But, I have never been able to find a source for 1/2" LED rope light by the foot.
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So it would be difficult to mass produce in a cost effective way; my benchmark is what CC LED charges for their wheel kit.
But the other side of the coin is that it feels wrong to release it open source without being able to cite a source for 1/2" dimmable LED rope light by the foot - best I know of is a company that sells it in 10' increments.
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Correction, there's a supplier in Arizona that sells it by the foot, but their listing doesn't say if it's dimmable. I'd have to reach out and ask.
And they sell a connector with pigtail ends? Amazing.
https://www.ledlight.com/led-rope-light-1_2-diameter.aspx
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I made a mistake while building the second battery - I accidentally melted one of the battery clip mounting arms with the soldering iron.
While a new one is I printing I can show the clever solution I came up with for the wires that connect adjacent cells and the B1 and B2 terminals on the BMS.
Rather than splice wires at the terminal, or at the battery contact, or with a third wire, I stripped the wire in the middle and soldered that.
[#]diy #electronics #3dprinting
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Good things come in pairs.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #3dprinting #electronics
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Assembling battery two and rebuilding battery one took all day because I made a few mistakes.
I melted one of the shells. I forgot to add enough slack to the wires to allow the case thirds to rotate the full 120° degrees needed to install them. At one point I literally had my wires crossed - with the wrong wire soldered to the B- and B1 terminals.
All fixable mistakes, but it highlights the fact that this is still a prototype and has many unknown unknowns.
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Good news - the latest iteration of the battery case passed the drop curb test - raising the wheel up about six inches off the ground and letting it drop. In prior iterations this would cause enough vibration that the BMS would shut off and enter safe mode for some reason.
Neither spacer ring worked in the rear wheel so I went with foam for now. The grip fin spacer is on the front wheel - we'll see how it does...
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The capitalist in me says I should productize this and sell it.
The communist in me says I should release it open source.
The realist in me says I should get a burrito.
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Wait, do I actually want the effort of running a small business or is the novelty of thinking about logistics a form of mental stimming?
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The latest field test was a success - the lights stayed on whole time, even with all the bumpy suburban stroads in Beaverton.
Now, four meters of 12V LED isn't much against the noontime sun on a clear day, but they make me visible when in shadows cast on the bike lane from buildings and trees. And if I use a flashing pattern I think it's more conspicuous than a steady glow.
Still, these are best suited for times without the sun.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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I spent the rest of afternoon fiddling with a spreadsheet trying to estimate the cost of materials for making and selling hub batteries and wheel lights online.
Don't give me that look. I have weird stims, ok!?
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I have managed to locate domestic suppliers for all parts, at wholesale or at least resale prices. Even at materials plus time, these would cost quite a few slices of avocado toast.
But if I'm right about the longevity of rope light at 25% brightness, the lights could last for up to 100 hours. That's gotta be worth something to someone. And even at 25% brightness, twelve feet of LEDs are plenty conspicuous at night.
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@yantor3d You correctly identified the areas in which their product needed improvement - that’s a win right there.
Still, I can imagine the wind-out-of-my-sails feeling this might give you.
Maybe there’s some other aspect of it where you can out innovate them?
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@GeekAndDad Maybe. I don't like that their LED strips have to be adhered to the wheels - too many years renting apartments has made me adverse to permanence.
The alternatives are neon LED strips or LED rope lights. Both have their trade offs. Rope light is better IMHO because it lasts longer.
I want to find dimmable rope light - if it lasted 27 hours at full intensity, it could last up to 100 at 1/4 intensity. Imagine only having to charge your bike lights once a month!
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@yantor3d Sounds good! I agree re permanence.
I personally would like color change options. I’d end up putting a microprocessor in there and have it cycle colors in fun ways if the police wouldn’t give me grief :)
Maybe just for party / group rides.
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@GeekAndDad Given single color LEDs only lasted 4-5 hours on full brightness (how does CC LED claim theirs last 20!?), and an RGB LED is three LEDs in one, I have to imagine they draw up to thrice the power.
So in theory RGB LEDs would only last a third as long as single color LEDs. Yeah, good for a fun time, but tedious for daily use.
That said I want to try building a partial loop of RGB LEDs - three 8-12" segments - and see how it looks at speed. Also an RGB LED rope light...
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@yantor3d I don’t think you run all three LEDs at full power (that would be 3x as bright?).
Might be CC LED are not running them at full power. Yours certainly seem VERY bright.
I have some really small surface RGB LEDs - 1010 or maybe these 2020s:
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3587
Haven’t gotten up the gumption to try soldering them yet :)
These are a bit larger (3.5mm square), not sure if they’re brighter but I think so?
https://www.adafruit.com/product/4957… (1/2)
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Note that Adafruit is cutting both of these from a spool/reel it seems like. It would be interesting to find out how much a whole roll costs and how many are on it to see how affordable they become in some bulk.s (2/2)
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@GeekAndDad could be. CC LED sells COB LEDs which achieve a "dotless" appearance. My LEDs are 2835 high density - 120 LEDs per meter - in a silicone diffuser tube that gives the "dotless" appearance. But COB LEDs all seem to have 100s of "chips" per meter, so maybe they're lower draw?
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@yantor3d ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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@yantor3d I love the lights on the rims
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@yantor3d Sun is going down! :)
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@GeekAndDad And I haven't eaten since brunch so maybe dinner first...
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@yantor3d 👍🏼 Definitely! Another hour before full dark at least. You have time 🙃
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@yantor3d burrito
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@Drwave my kingdom for an Illegal Pete's in Portland.
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@yantor3d I don’t know them, but I forgot about the Portland thing.
In Oakland, East Bay, I have no shortage of great burrito options.
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@Drwave Illegal Pete's is a Colorado chain - their flagship location is in elementary Denver. I told anyone who would listen to try them at SIGGRAPH this year.
In my area of Portland there are only three burrito options - Chipotle, Qdoba, and Baja Fresh. And Chipotle is the closest. :|
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@yantor3d In full sun you should be visible due to.....the fucking sun ;)
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@LovesTha The word "should" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.
Drivers be oblivious.
And this was designed for night riding anyway.
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@yantor3d those look terrific.
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@yantor3d Some lessons from nasa: https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/407%20Splices.html but note that mechanical fastening (crimp) is actually better than soldering in many cases due to vibration and flexing causing wire breaks. i.e. why is car wiring all crimps instead of solder?
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@trouble Very cool. Unfortunately I have to solder the wires to the battery contacts and BMS PCB. And if I didn't have the dedicated charging port I could also solder the power cable straight to the PCB as well.
Fortunately I am pretty sure the vibrations on a bicycle are an order of magnitude lower than on a car, and several orders of magnitude lower than on a rocket!
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@yantor3d strain relief is an important component. Battery tabs should be fine to solder to, as long as the wire is short enough to not move/bounce around with vibration. A spot of (hot) glue securing the wire to the case is common.
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@yantor3d I spent all arvo trying to get QMK to drive the LEDs on my new keyboard.
I'm confident my code is in a better place, but still no lights.
Might need to try debugging at work with a CRO.
Or get one of those cheap logic analyzers around the house to work.
Guess I have a project for tomorrow.
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text/gemini
