Ancestors

Toot

Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:31

Initial response to @pluralistic regarding #FreeOurFeeds

Want to thank Cory Doctorow for answering questions about his support for Free Our Feeds here:

https://pluralistic.net/2025/01/14/contesting-popularity/#everybody-samba

What follows is a response in the form of a list of concerns about FOF.

Cory rightly took exception to the "scolding" tone of some of the discussion so far. It is hoped that here, at least, we can keep it focused on the substance of this issue.

So, here goes...

1/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Descendants

Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:32

@pluralistic

1. Primary goal seems to be to build a second relay for Bluesky so people can exit the corporate site if it becomes enshittified. Necessarily this will involve building undemonstrated technology effectively for Bluesky that they should have done more than promise will work. So it becomes public funding of corporate owned technology.

2/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:34

@pluralistic

1. (cont.) There is no guarantee that it will work. It depends on cooperation of Bluesky. Even once implemented there is no guarantee it will fulfill it's function as the company will certainly retain a myriad ways of hobbling the interface should they desire to do so. Bottom line, is it an escape hatch to nowhere?

3/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:37

@pluralistic

2. The technology itself. If you read Christine Lemmer-Webber's analysis of the AT Protocol it seems like the protocol itself is incompatible with the FOF purpose of independent decentralization of nodes. Certainly not low cost decentralization.

4/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:38

@pluralistic

2. (cont) Understand BSky pushes back on this, but the fact that they have not demonstrated this capability and the prospective FOF cost of millions of dollars to make a second relay makes it seem like Christine is right. In any case, why should the public do this before the company first demonstrates the capability?

5/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:39

@pluralistic

3. FOF Personnel is tech and AI heavy, and with the exception of you, does not include clear advocates for open truly public systems. The recent direction of the Mozilla Foundation and their top line involvement is cause for concern.

6/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:41

@pluralistic

4. Have not been able to locate any documentation on this foundation other than the splashy, but thin, website. What is the legal structure? Who are the officers? Any financials? Is there any specific mission statement? Implementation plan? Where does the money donated go? Who/what is it spent on? Etc.

7/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:42

@pluralistic

5. Bluesky corporate structure. Bluesky represents itself as owned by Jay Graber and the employees, when it reality it is owned by a who's who of Silicon Valley VC's and crypto entities like Blockchain Capital. They are about to close a new funding round led by Bain Capital expected to value the company at $700M. What about all of this makes this the place to invest public money to escape billionaires?

8/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:47

@pluralistic

6. Sucking money and attention from public social media. We are at a critical moment. As a result of the election, the public has become aware of the power of billionaires to shape opinion. We have a moment in time to help move people onto public platforms which are truly defensible. Bluesky is another corporate trap, where people are not safe from the same thing that has happened in previous cycles of enshittification.

9/n

[#]FreeOurFeeds

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-14 at 22:48

@pluralistic

6. (cont) It is not clear FOF can provide that safety for reasons stated above. So, the fear is funding this multiyear, super expensive effort with public money actually detracts, distracts and takes funding away from the absolutely necessary goal of actually building public social media, effectively becoming a poison pill.

[#]FreeOurFeeds

10/10

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Written by Stu on 2025-01-14 at 23:36

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic on this one, I would raise the counter point that Mastodon is in no way ready for the heavy lift of a significant migration. We've a long way to go in terms of trust and safety. It's far too easy to abuse people here.

More generally, we could do with a more inviting culture, too. At least that's something non technical we can all work on.

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Written by Erotic Mythology (hire me) ☃️ on 2025-01-15 at 00:30

@tehstu @mastodonmigration @pluralistic If Mastodon / ActivityPub had $30 million, I'm pretty sure that migration wouldn't be a concern.

But yes, we can all work on a more inviting culture 🙂

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Written by RAK on 2025-01-15 at 16:27

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic: With reference to this point, I'm not even sure it would be any better if it was owned by Jay Graber, who herself has a history of working with cryptocurrency and therefore should be regarded as a con artist.

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Written by chx on 2025-01-15 at 14:20

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic exactly. This is just an grift from some hustlers. They are currently in AI because that's where the big money is currently. Pocketing 30 mil over a few years sounds like a splendid idea to such people if you need to do, well, jack shit for it.

Edit: 7 out of 9 are AI: New_ Public: https://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/grant/2024-5 Mozilla, https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherifea/details/experience/ and two has AI in their company name.

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Written by GhostOnTheHalfShell on 2025-01-15 at 00:08

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic

It sounds a little bit from your list of questions that this could be aimed at forcing blue sky’s hand to either piss or get off the pot.

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-15 at 00:12

@GhostOnTheHalfShell @pluralistic

Hadn't thought of that, but it would be good if they did. Suspect that just kicking the can is working for them, so why change?

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Written by GhostOnTheHalfShell on 2025-01-15 at 00:16

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic

Well, that might be the result. I’m a little uncomfortable. The idea that such a substantials has been raised for this effort. It may be there you know business parties would like to see The promises fulfilled, So maybe that’s all good, but I can’t help also feeling it would be really nice to have that money invested in the fediverse..

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-15 at 00:21

@GhostOnTheHalfShell @pluralistic

Not that much money has been raised yet. The GoFundMe lusts $39,000. So they have a way to go.

Still, $39,000 would be enough for several Fedi instances to operate for a year.

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Written by GhostOnTheHalfShell on 2025-01-15 at 00:22

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic

Right I must’ve glanced at this earlier in the day half asleep because I thought there were a couple more zeros on that still 39K is great. That’s worth a couple of months of programming

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Written by Mostly Scribbles on 2025-01-15 at 01:38

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic There's a window, even if it's not a fire escape, in the form of an AP/Bsky bridge. It works reasonably well. I follow and interact with a few bsky accounts from here on fedi. fed.brid.gy/

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Written by Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary on 2025-01-15 at 07:05

@scuttlebutt @mastodonmigration @pluralistic

Having bridges between corporate social media and the Fediverse strikes me as very dangerous. What keeps them from pulling off an "embrace, extend, extinguish" strategy?

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Written by william.maggos on 2025-01-15 at 14:38

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic

to me, the structural problem is obvious. the relays mean there's a middleman while the fedi works like the open web. if one of these structures is to win the future of social media and truly dominate, how could anyone want anybody (as cool as they might be) to have that much power when it's totally unnecessary. to be between govts and media orgs and the public.

look at @mondoweiss. how much pressure would come down on that relay to censor reporting on #Gaza?

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Written by Mastodon Migration on 2025-01-15 at 15:00

@wjmaggos @pluralistic @mondoweiss

Really interesting point.

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Written by william.maggos on 2025-01-15 at 15:14

@mastodonmigration @pluralistic @mondoweiss

so I think I now get what Cory and friends are planning here. it's an attack that they don't want to be too obvious about. maybe I shouldn't write this up. they're trying to kill BS but save the people first before it goes down. maybe.

https://liberal.city/@wjmaggos/113833009069576115

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