"We should ban kids from the Internet until they turn 18"
I had a hard enough time finding people like me even with the Internet. Finding anyone locally who was anything like me was impossible.
The idea that people want to actively cut people away from their support networks, to isolate them from others, and banish the youth to a primitive 20th century lifestyle? That's fucking bullshit.
What next, do you also propose that kids only be allowed to speak to their parents, no one else?
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This post brought to you by seeing the most dogshit take imaginable.
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@hadley The people pushing this are most certainly right-wing chuds who shouldn't be allowed to have children in the first place.
Most probably do not want them to have any kind of support networks because abused people who have support networks are less likely to tolerate further abuse, and not be empowered to take any kind of stand against it.
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@Draconic_NEO The post/poster I saw at least doesn't seem terribly chud-like, but it definitely gives me some pretty ick vibes: https://mkultra.monster/@cmdr_nova/113666399297474117
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@hadley Yeah that is pretty ick.
I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for that kind of sentiment because I know many people now who knew they were trans as teens, and the only reason they chose to keep going was because of online support networks.
People like this talk about thinking of the children but the reality is they don't actually care about the children. They want to control the children but couldn't care less if those kids are suffering emotionally.
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@hadley @Draconic_NEO Yeah there's an unfortunate element of "we need to ban the make and model of car that hit me" that I've noticed popping up a lot in discussions of child sexual abuse. I can see where it's coming from, as one of the functions of CSA is to isolate its victims, and when they get hyperfocused on the specifics of their own trauma that's just kind of an extended effect of the harm done to them. All the same, I wish we didn't keep giving those kinds of dogshit opinions credibility under the guise of "listen to victims".
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@hadley I hate when governments do that (usually it's not 18 but 16, but point still stands) because if they ACTUALLY cared about protecting children they'd overhaul the schooling system (or at least make it so bullies are actually punished and victims aren't)
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@koopa512 Yeah... so much of "protecting the kids" seem to be boil down to just controlling them, and making sure they only do the things you think they should be doing, and treating them like property.
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@hadley aren't schools the place where kids are most likely to face some sort of abuse?
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@koopa512 Based on my own knowledge and experiences, their own homes are by far the most likely place to be abused.
Found a citation on this, too: https://www.nationalchildrensalliance.org/media-room/national-statistics-on-child-abuse/#:~:text=most%20child%20victims%20are%20abused%20by%20a%20parent
So, every motherfucker arguing that we should isolate children further? Yeah, they don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.
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@hadley Note that that page seems to lump together "abuse" and "neglect" (the latter of which is said to account for 74% of cases, leaving ~113K cases). I'm NOT saying that either is not bad (it is!) but I honestly doubt school abuse (especially if including bullying) is limited to <100K cases in the US. There should be approximately 30M people of school age in the US; for only about 0.3% of those (a few in a reasonably large school) to be subjected to bullying sounds EXTREMELY low. 🧵
@koopa512
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@hadley @koopa512
And just to be abundantly clear, this is not meant to in any way say that I think isolating children is an answer. If anything, I would argue for the opposite: support networks. This means everything from parents/guardians to friends to school teachers to sports coaches to religious organizations to, yes, strangers on the Internet. Not all people are bad, but the bad ones often have an outsized impact. That's not solved by cutting off access to everyone.
/🧵
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@mkj @hadley @koopa512 Isolated people are the most vulnerable. Because a network of diverse relationship is a safety net. If you only have the family, of course things can turn to shit. If you only have the school -lone separtaed microcosm-, the same. If you've only got that one group of friend, guess what.
Must meet lot of people you can tell your life to. Even if some are toxic, it's only a big deal if you only have them to turn to.
They don't even need to be the BEST FRIEND. Just amical
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@mkj @hadley @koopa512 Neglect is a kind of abuse.
I've been neglected myself, which brought me several negative experiences, from physical health to relationships.
I get what you mean but neglect shouldn't be put on the side.
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@hadley "We should ban kids from the library until they turn 18"
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@hadley
Elder millenial here. My cohort mostly started getting online at between 15 and 18, and even then it was usually on a shared family computer in a shared room with no privacy.
Your parents could totally control what sort of world you thought you lived in. Did gay people exist? Did women have libidos? Was there such a thing as a moral atheist or a non-criminal Black person or a bad cop? Your parents might decide to simply not have you learn about these things.
A lot of us didn't survive, one way or the other.
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@hadley
When I see modern theocrats and social conservatives saying "we lost our kids" or "we must protect our kids" this is what I think they're actually saying.
"We lost our kids" means "we lost total control over our kids, and now they can discover for themselves who they are."
"We must protect our kids" means "we must isolate our kids from learning about the world in ways we don't like."
My generation broke free of that control. I don't want to see it reestablished over your generation.
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@hadley
A trans friend from a conservative family once said that his parents would have preferred to see him die than see him be happy and male: the former can live forever in their hearts as the girl they wish he was, while the latter they have to see every day as the confident young man he became.
Information control kills a lot of people. It happened to my generation. I think for a lot of conservative people this isn't even a bad thing: a child dying is heartbreaking but a child escaping and being a happy gay adult is, to them, worse.
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@passenger @hadley same. we fucking fought for this.
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@passenger @hadley yeah, they see their kids as their private property.
There's a word for treating people as private property: slavery.
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@hadley that is for sure an actual policy objective, even if not a short-term one, yes :/
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@hadley Some won't let theirs kids speak to their parents…
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@hadley We should banish kids from specifically corporate owned social media until they're 18. Make them find likeminded individuals the same way we did, with mailing lists and bulletin boards, and let them be moderated by fallible humans so they learn how to negotiate existence with the willing rather than with the whims of billionaire overlords.
We're a lot better at protecting kids from drug dealers than Snapchat is.
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@hadley Banning minors from the internet is just going to turn out how homeschooling usually does-- with abuse.
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@hadley
Seems obvious that the problem is the children and not the people doing things to make the internet unsafe /s
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@hadley Wanting Kids off the Internet is enabling child abuse if not child abuse
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@hadley I feel like the biggest threat to kids safety and well being is their parents, so I really hate that virtually all of these online child safety bills are just making kids more vulnerable to that. If we want to protect kids, we should educate them about grooming, make sure online spaces have decent moderation, and make sure there are good support systems in place that are easy to access.
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@hadley WHile I don't believe kids should be banned, unless parents teach kids about internet safety, schools should be teaching that stuff at the very least.
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