I'm watching American Primeval on Netflix. It's set in Utah and Wyoming during Mormon Mountain Meadows Massacre times, which sparked my interest.
If it weren't for that topic, I probably would've stopped watching. The editing is terrible, it's super violent with long action scenes where I'd rather have more story, lots of sexism/assault. The dialog and writing isn't very great. Sometimes I see where they've dubbed in a dialog change in post (?!), and the Mormon dialog sounds like it was written by someone who heard of Brigham Young once and read the polygamy Wikipedia entry. Which is super disappointing. (Send your script to me and for fair pay, I'll fix it up!)
On the upside, it's cool to see a gritty "realistic" glimpse of the era, especially outside the Mormon history propaganda they showed me as a kid. For analysis of how power works in a place where rule of law isn't, survival situations, colonization, etc is interesting to see depicted.
And since it deals with delicate topics, I'd say the creators were sorta woke, but they don't always hit the mark. Lots of casual ableist language, for instance, and though they do try to show the indigenous POV, I worry they're not being fully accurate or fair to the Shoshone and Piautes.
I feel the Mormon stuff is close to accurate, but annoyingly not in little ways that really bug me. I'm not sure how closely they follow the historical beats. The massacre scene was really close to what I know, some creative departures are there clearly to allow the story to continue (like letting some the adults escape — IRL the only known survivors were children), but I wonder about some of the other things that don't seem right, if my version of events is correct or theirs.
Overall, if you're not particularly interested in the topic, skip it. If you are, watch it with caveats.
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Then Brigham's going around saying "This is the place" everywhere he goes, like it's some kind of supervillain catchphrase. Which would be hilarious if they were doing it intentionally and with effect. But they're not.
Really though, it's the characters making the same mistakes with the exact same outcome every time that's so annoying. Also not done intentionally, with effect, but simply because the creators thought the only way to build tension is to have every single person be hostile to every single other person.
Tryna be Game of Thrones but it's not.
I'm just here for the hate watching at this point. And for the Mormons.
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Wishlist: Westerns get popular again but they're all from a primarily indigenous POV.
(This show isn't as fair to the Shoshone and Paiute as I would have liked, but I'm enjoying what it tries to do, and would like more of that, only better. (And less white saviory.))
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And someone tell make-up that even in olden times they knew how to wash blood off at some point within weeks after the injury.
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I swear, this one guy's forehead blood keeps moving around.
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I mean blood eventually flakes off by itself after awhile.
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And I wish they'd do a better job of showing why Mormonism is/was appealing. They're all cranky and crazy and weird and mean in this.
No, Mormons are and were charming. People don't join high demand groups and move across the world because all the members look miserable and the leaders act cutthroat all the time. Really glad they are showing the cutthroat stuff (and they were very much in 1857, which translates into more of a passive aggression today) but also show why people wanted to join.
There are Mormons alive today sick of the passive aggression who would love to go back to that cutthroat time. They hide behind those warm smiles and suits. They are charming AF.
People need to know it's a facade. Such a lost opportunity.
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In my experience, many issues with a story can be fixed by simply knowing what each and every character wants, and have them actively pursuing that goal at all times. They may or may not themselves know what they want, but the author needs to know.
Many issues with American Primeval would be solved if the writers simply gave some of the side characters a mind of their own, and set them into action. But many characters are acting in service to the plot, and thus, are hardly more than cardboard cutouts. The tension is there because the director wanted tension, not because real people are having legitimate conflicts over getting what they want.
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@corbden it would have been far more compelling as a story. BY was supposedly a very charming - and disarming - person
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@tirrimas Yeah in this he's just bossy and severe. He's more like a pilgrim. With that hat.
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@corbden I don't know the series: is the bloodied one proud of it, e.g. supposed to be a 'Danite' after the Mountain Meadow Massacre?
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@EmptySet No, he's Mormon but also a victim. He's a major character, looking for his wife.
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@corbden Lol, really? Don’t have Netflix at the moment but interested in the show and enjoying your commentary. Curious, what’s wrong with the editing if you care to elaborate. Stylistic choices or… ?
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@CardboardRobot Poor timing in scenes. Confusing at times, dialog rhythm off. Characters jumping ahead suddenly to be with characters they weren't with before, with no explanation of how they met up. Action scenes that last too long (pacing) and feel like a replacement for actual story. Repetitive character types and scenes/beats. Stuff like that.
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@corbden Interesting, thanks.
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@CardboardRobot I've learned a lot about writing by critiquing shows after having read a couple of books, listened to various advice, and participating in critique circles. By seeing what another writer/creator is doing well vs. doing wrong, it passively helps my own writing.
But mostly, it's just really fun and adds a whole extra layer of interest to watching a show. Especially the bad ones. 😂
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@corbden I thought your critiques were particularly interesting given your (I assume) LDS/Utah background and knowledge. About editing, I do have some editor friends who complain they take the fall for bad directorial/showrunner decisions though. Often hard to tell who did what around those decisions. :)
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@CardboardRobot Possibly! Ultimately it's on the director and maybe the producer. I'm coming at it more as a prose / novel writer, and haven't ever worked in film. Some of what I listed was "editing" as in choosing which cuts to include and how they're spliced. And some was storycraft stuff that might have been put there in writing, and could've maybe been fixed during either filming or post, if the director had wanted it.
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@corbden Yes, for sure. I’m not in the book/novelist realm so I’m pretty clueless around what novelists have to deal with given publishers and editors and their roles. And probably other issues and participants I’m unaware of. It’s always interesting to me though. We all have bosses telling us what we should do, that’s for certain. :)
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@CardboardRobot Prose writers tend to have way more freedom. Still a team effort but far less of one. Sometimes an editor will force a major unwanted change, you hear stories, but it's not happened to me. I've generally agreed with changes or have been able to advocate for what I really wanted to keep. But I've only had a publisher on my short stories. I self-published my novel, so while I put many eyes on it, I had final say. I like going solo, one reason I don't write for screen.
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