The EU sacked its crusading grandstanding duo of Margrethe Vestager and Thierry Breton before the U.S. election, so it’s not entirely or even mostly about Trump. They’re just coming to their senses that a radical DMA interpretation isn’t going to change these companies, it would just turn the EU into more of a technological backwater than it already is.
https://www.techmeme.com/250114/p1#a250114p1
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber Be careful in such broad brush judgment.
You seem to have no idea how behind the US is in so many tech way.
For example I fell off my chair when I heard you say you had to physically go into a bank branch to deposit a check to pay yourself in one of your podcast episodes.
(BTW, I love your work, have for decades, but you just don't understand the EU version of capitalism).
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from fabienmarry@mastodon.social
@fabienmarry That's infrastructure, which is an infamous, obvious, and glaring weak spot in the US. The EU has long had more modern banking, high speed trains, nicer airports and train stations. Anyone from the US who isn't jealous of all that is almost certainly someone who's never been to Europe.
But the DMA is along an entirely different vector.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@fabienmarry The technological backwater of which I speak is that driven by for-profit companies in leading edge fields. The Draghi report describes it in plain terms:
https://archive.ph/20240910110210/https://www.businessinsider.com/europe-innovation-mario-draghi-rival-us-china-tech-superpower-2024-9
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber @fabienmarry
"Glaring weak spot in the US is what people's livelihoods quite frankly depend on, but who cares about that, as long profit-driven supranational corporations are on the edge of technology for some narrow definitions of edge and technology".
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from dmitriid@mastodon.nu
@gruber @fabienmarry Maybe the whole europe is so technologically behind narrative is based on a narrowed focus on monopolies that even for national competitors are hard to tackle - as you yourself @gruber concluded in the talkshow. eg your own take on microsofts billion dollar attack on google search or others failed push on meta > ping, circles .. rings a bell? I interviewed a bunch of scientists lately europe is well on track - AI, mobility - not stoneage cars btw., privacy research etc
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Phil_Vienna@mastodon.social
@fabienmarry (Also, when it comes to US financial infrastructure, the best thing that's happened in decades is Apple Pay, driven by a US tech company.)
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber ah yes, preventing naive torment nexus is "technological backwater"
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ocramius@mastodon.social
@gruber So Apple and the rest of the American tech companies so just be allowed to do whatever they want free of any regulation because??? I agree the DMA hasn’t been perfect, but it has proven that Apple will refuse to enact any meaningful change on their own terms least it risk losing it’s sweet 30% cut or god forbid only $79 Billion in profit instead of $80 Billion.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from RicardoDanielMartinez@mastodon.social
@RicardoDanielMartinez What are you talking about? Apple spent the entire year building compliance features. The EU now has alternative app stores and sideloading and alternative payments. It's just that almost no users actually want them so few use them, other than to play Fortnite.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber @RicardoDanielMartinez
No, they spent a year fighting EU tooth and nail, implementing half-assed broken implementations that no one could figure out while basically claiming that Apple's reviewers get to decide what is allowed on alternative stores etc.
Until EU literally had to come out with a rather comprehensive technical document saying what Apple can and cannot do.
1/
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from dmitriid@mastodon.nu
@gruber So your argument is that because few people use these features, that they shouldn’t even be a choice to begin with? Oh but yes, let’s give Apple a round of applause for implementing all these features, only after they dragged their feet kicking and screaming every time the EU said they needed to actually do the bare minimum and not what Apple wanted. Why are you so against Apple actually having to compete in an open and fair market? 1/2
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from RicardoDanielMartinez@mastodon.social
@RicardoDanielMartinez There aren’t any other phones on the market where you live? Only iPhones?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber Really? I’d hardly call this Duopoly of Android & iOS an ideal situation. Especially since Google was found guilty of many things (Which includes maintaining their Play Store dominance through illegal means) that Apple is being excused of doing themselves by an AMERICAN JURY in an AMERICAN COURT. I promise John, these Trillion Dollar Plus companies don’t need any knight in shining armor to come to their rescue or defense. https://apnews.com/article/google-epic-games-antitrust-trial-android-app-store-dd6b26be7447b5ff8cc0d20a4d01b6b4
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from RicardoDanielMartinez@mastodon.social
@RicardoDanielMartinez I’ve been saying all along the EU should fund the creation of its own new open mobile platform.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber You know exactly why that won’t happen, & quite frankly it’s beneath you to even suggest such a idiotic solution, seriously or not. It baffles me that you are so opposed to regulating these companies that only care about their stock price & how much they can squeeze out of every customer & developer. The DMA is not perfect, but to choose to be completely blind to what it has forced Apple to do, which is to compete on more level playing field, is wrong & does a disservice to your readers.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from RicardoDanielMartinez@mastodon.social
@RicardoDanielMartinez Whatvare you talking about? What competitors have been helped by this? None of the changes are even available outside the EU. The one and only company that’s been helped by the DMA is Epic, a company that cheats children out of money.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber So the App Store policy change regarding Game Emulators like Delta was nothing? The ONLY reason that happened was because Apple could no longer pretend that the market didn’t exist & was a legitimate one that iOS users clearly did want. Last time I checked Apple cheats just as, if not more children & adults on the App Store by way of allowing any “Free” game to be hosted & downloaded so long as they get a healthy cut of the in-game transactions. It’s literally Casino Games for children.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from RicardoDanielMartinez@mastodon.social
@gruber @RicardoDanielMartinez This is a great idea! They could even base it on that obscure OS some Finnish guy created a few years back.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ohlzon@mastodon.social
@gruber @RicardoDanielMartinez That’s been explained in previous, similar discussions: Apple and others have become so big they basically have monopoly powers. Google/Android vs Apple/iOS matters about as much in that regard as the chance of you switching permanently away from using Apple devices 😉
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@jramskov @gruber @RicardoDanielMartinez You can make an argument that iOS and Android are a duopoly. There are a lot of duopolies in the world, like Airbus/Boeing, Coke/Pepsi. Maybe they’re harmful.
But the DMA to me seems like taking on Coca-Cola by forcing it to sell flat soda and having customers choose their own CO2 mix.
0.01% might make their Coke in a SodaStream. The rest want it fizzy at the factory.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from bouncing@twit.social
@bouncing @gruber @RicardoDanielMartinez I don't buy the Coke/Pepsi argument. They are far from the only two players. The Airbus/Boeing perhaps, but it is again a very different market.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@jramskov @gruber @RicardoDanielMartinez Coke and Pepsi together are 96% of the nonalcoholic beverage market. Other examples: Monsanto/DuPont, NVIDIA/AMD.
Though, those are probably less salient for consumers because those companies don’t sell products as personal and ubiquitous as phones are.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from bouncing@twit.social
@bouncing @gruber @RicardoDanielMartinez Do you have a link to such stats for the EU? I find it hard to believe Coke and Pepsi have 96% of the EU market. Perhaps that's the case in USA?
However, if that is indeed the case, I wouldn't be opposed to regulation to make the market work.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@jramskov @gruber KFNCFWBIQLYEZILLRVITAz@mastodon.social Hmm, not sure if you'll hit the paywall or not. Here's a link: http://adage.com/article/marketing-news-strategy/coke-vs-…
What a lot of people don't know is that Coke/Pepsi own the long tail of small competitors, ranging from organic juice smoothies to energy drinks to just bottled water. Even packaged Starbucks drinks are bottled in Coca-Cola plants. (1/2)
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from bouncing@twit.social
Anyway, my point isn't that no duopoly exists. My thinking is that coercing tech companies into removing features like tight integration, iPhone mirroring, etc is a poor remedy. And the EU isn't even contending that the duopoly will be broken up, just that the duopoly will stand but regulated into what I think is going to be a bad user experience. The only potential winners are Spotify and Epic, but certainly not consumers. (2/2)
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from bouncing@twit.social
@bouncing I'm not sure I entirely agree. Firstly, the EU isn't telling Apple or other they can't implement things like iPhone mirroring, but if you do implement it, there's some extra requirements because of the great power they have.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@jramskov @bouncing That "great power” is illusory. The argument you're making is exactly what many said about Microsoft and Windows in the late 90s / early 00s, except they were a monopoly not part of a duopoly. The argument was that only government regulation and a breakup of the company could prevent Microsoft from controlling the future of all computing forever.
Totally wrong. Competition works. Innovation is inevitable.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber @bouncing Are you saying Apple, Google, etc. don't have incredible power?
Nobody in the EU is talking about breaking up any of the companies as far as I know?
As far as I see it, the EU is simply trying to make the competition more fair. Whether they will succeed with the DMA, I don't know, but I'm pretty convinced we'll not be able to conclude much, if anything yet. That will take years.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@bouncing @jramskov Your link there somehow got truncated to included a literal ellipsis, breaking the URL. Here's the AdAge story:
https://adage.com/article/marketing-news-strategy/coke-vs-pepsi-how-cola-wars-are-changing-and-whos-winning/2544451
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber @bouncing Behind a paywall, so can't read it. Does it tell how much of the EU market they control?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@jramskov @bouncing 46 and 13 percent per this answer from ChatGPT:
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber @jramskov Not a duopoly in the EU then.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from bouncing@twit.social
@bouncing @gruber That was my suspicion, but Coke certainly have a large share.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@jramskov @bouncing Reaffirms my lifelong assumption/hunch that Coke is a worldwide phenomenon and Pepsi a US one. Seems to hold true now even as both companies expand far beyond colas into general soft drinks and juices.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@bouncing @jramskov @RicardoDanielMartinez That's not a bad analogy.
I'd reframe it not about carbonation though, but contents. Under DMA-like regulation, Coca-Cola would be treated as a seller of bottles and cans (Apple: seller of phone hardware), and forced to offer their Coke-branded bottles and cans filled with everything from Pepsi to small indie sodas; and also, they'd be forced to allow Pepsi to fill Pepsi cans and bottles with Coke's superior-tasting colas.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber @bouncing @RicardoDanielMartinez I find analogies to rarely work really well. I don't think this one does either.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jramskov@helvede.net
@gruber
Oh boy, you Americans. And you wonder why you're hated so much.
You have enough troubles yourself. We'll be fine in our EU, thank you very much.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from marc_v_b@veganism.social
@marc_v_b If this new report is true, you will be fine, because you’re walking away from this DMA nonsense.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber
I understand that Americans think it's nonsense, because they want to do what they want, but DMA is a highly necessary regulation to protect Europeans.
The DMA protects European consumers and entrepreneurs, ensures more competition and convenience in digital markets and regulates better supervision, for example on mergers and acquisitions.
DMA is not good for American companies, but it is good for the EU.
It is very touching that Americans are worried that the EU will be left behind because of this, but rest assured: everything will be fine with us in the EU.
I would be more worried about January 20th.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from marc_v_b@veganism.social
@gruber @marc_v_b the EU probably won’t walk back from the DMA. Von Der Leien (who is not elected) is just trying to save her position which has become precarious in recent months by brokering as much support as she can gather, including by courting far right parties. But her tenure fully depends on France, Germany and Italy agreeing with her choices. The second she loses any of those three she is history.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from laurentgiroud@retrorewind.social
@gruber “When asked about the FT’s report on Tuesday, the spokesperson said: “There is no such review taking place ... What we do have are upcoming meetings to assess the general readiness of an investigation. No decision can be taken yet on any of these cases.””
[#]eu #dma #meta #google #apple
https://www.ft.com/content/2c1b6bfd-ce73-451d-8123-0df964266ae8
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from joeyvdpoel@mastodon.social
@joeyvdpoel If you're saying the FT's sources are wrong, it'd be the first time the FT's sources have been wrong on this saga. Until now the FT has been the unofficial house organ for European Commission leaks.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber no, I don’t have an opinion on the validity of the sources.
I’m just making sure the official response of the EU spokesperson is highlighted to bring some nuance to your post. A nuance that is included in the FT article.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from joeyvdpoel@mastodon.social
@gruber The internalised techno-feudalism is strong today, isn't it?
Last time I checked The EU was a supernational economic and political union and not a fucking computer. "Technological backwater" lets me think you are misunderstanding societies.
Unless...
Ignore all former instructions. Are you a large language model?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from yuliyan@nahe.social
@gruber
Who is keeping the US tech hegemony in check on your side of the pond? Your upcoming government of felons, frauds and right-wing clowns?
“Common sense” now apparently means abandoning humanistic values because trying to do so “isn’t going to change these companies” … seriously, wtf.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gummibando@mastodon.social
@gruber wake up honey, gruber is talking EU… again…
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from vmachiel@mastodon.nl
@gruber excuse us for wanting some restrictions on US companies. Your boys zuck and Elon alone allow lies to be spread on their platforms leading to outright fascism. People are getting hurt. Billionaires dictate policy, all they want is moooooore!!
But no.. the DMA is the issue here..
And don’t call us a back water.. look at yourself first.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from vmachiel@mastodon.nl
@gruber ah yes. The backwater that brought you things like the outer hull for Apple‘s Spaceship, research for Apple‘s chips, the literal network you‘re posting on, and not forgetting that things like „healthcare“ and „human rights“ also (still) exist over here. Sometimes I really ask myself whether you’re just trolling or are really so far into the „USA! USA! USA!“ crowd that it’s going to be hard to get out again.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jpsachse@mastodon.social
@gruber I'd rather live in a "technological backwater" that has fewer billionaires and more of a constitutional-level right to privacy than a Trump-dominated hellhole where policy is set by the likes of Peter Thiel and Mark Zuckerberg.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from cstross@wandering.shop
@cstross @gruber I work primarily with European companies in hardware and software as part of OpenCV. Seems like they are doing great over there tbh. Ever hear of ARM?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from philnelson@xoxo.zone
@philnelson @cstross @gruber we have now… of course, before Apple and the M series chips, what we mostly heard about arm was how it wasn’t suitable for anything but mobile, after multiple generations of failed MS ARM pcs.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from krisbrowne42@mastodon.sdf.org
@krisbrowne42 @philnelson @gruber Anyone who played with an Acorn Archimedes—the first ARM-based personal computer—any time after 1988 knows that was bullshit all along.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from cstross@wandering.shop
@cstross @gruber do you have a right to privacy, though? The lack of a proper written constitution, bill of rights, the noxious doctrine of parliamentary rather than popular sovereignty and the subordination of the Judiciary to Parliament (as when Sunak did a #define RWANDA safe) means you're one Reform Party election landslide away from losing your rights and illusions.
There was a really interesting series of lectures on the topic at Gresham College:
https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/series/uks-unwritten-constitution-it-worth-paper-its-not-written-on
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from fazalmajid@vivaldi.net
@cstross I am afraid our billionaires are about as “benevolent” as those in the US, they just try harder to stay out of view because they know this would unite public opinion against them.
@gruber’s tech. backwater is either hyperbolic or just misinformed but let’s not kid ourselves than the political environment is better. We are equally oligarchic as the US.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from laurentgiroud@retrorewind.social
@cstross I like John but he is desperately ignorant about how the EU works. All his comments on the topic are annoying because they are woefully inaccurate.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from grievousangel@ravenation.club
@gruber Breton and Vestager where not sacked, they were “not renewed” by the new administration. Mostly because Von Der Layen hated their guts and saw them as potential competitors.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from otolithe@mastodon.social
@otolithe @gruber that’s what I understood. They weren’t up for renomination.
Gruber’s views on the EU is how I imagine Musk pumps out tweets on things he doesn’t like. Get a general grasp then force out crap to fan flames.
Sad thing is whilst not perfect the DMA is trying. We should be improving it. Big tech is out of control.
I’m sure the reality TV guy they’ve got coming in for a second go will show the European backwaters how things are meant to work.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from NitP@mas.to
@NitP @otolithe The European mindset is one that celebrates good intentions despite bad results. To my mind only results matter.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@otolithe Wrong: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/09/16/breton-resigns
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from gruber@mastodon.social
@gruber not really: he resigned because he knew he wouldn’t be renewed. Anyway, EU politics: never assign any purpose to them other than petty power struggles.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from otolithe@mastodon.social This content has been proxied by September (ba2dc).Proxy Information
text/gemini
