Being #blind is fun. Just encountered a visual captcha with no audio option. So I used JAWS Picture Smart to get AI to read me the text of the visual clue, which I typed in and got through. So basically I'm a human who needs a robot to prove to another robot that I am not a robot. Without my robot, the other robot would have thought I was a robot. Also I was trying to make a payment on my PAP machine, which really should in itself indicate that I am not a robot. #Disability #Disabled
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@SyHoekstra It did solve the captcha? Maybe it depends which one, because with same feature of JAWS I tried on a site and it gave me wrong numbers. I guess in a few years we'll have robots asking us if we are robots
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@talksina ChatGPT was off by 1 letter, but Claude got it right
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@SyHoekstra with me it got wrong - tried even with Be My AI for Windows.
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@talksina So some robots are still smart enough to tell the difference
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@SyHoekstra robuts.
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@SyHoekstra wouldn't want your toaster making payments on your PAP machine...
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@Lightfighter A vital digital security concern
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@SyHoekstra Robots are notorious deadbeats.
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@adamrice Oh just constantly writing checks they can’t cash. Everybody knows it
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@SyHoekstra
I'm sorry. Absurd, the inhumanity of it.
Reminds me of the Popeye cartoon where he forgets his house key, so he climbs in a window to unlock the door, then goes out the window to enter through the door, all propersk likesk. lol
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@GGMcBG @SyHoekstra @patterfloof Lots of it gets absurd. I got a captcha a while back where it asked me to select all the tractors. I selected the 1 tractor. It wouldn't let me proceed. Because the input data didn't know the difference between a tractor, a telehandler, and a combine harvester. But I do know the difference between them...
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@chloeraccoon @GGMcBG @SyHoekstra it's always American captchas, good thing I know what a sidewalk is, via cultural imperialism
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@patterfloof @GGMcBG @SyHoekstra It would be funny to have it bring up UK fire hydrants. How many americans do you think could ID one?
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@chloeraccoon @GGMcBG @SyHoekstra would you show them the little road hatch, or the sign?
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@patterfloof @GGMcBG @SyHoekstra As it's the hydrant itself.. the hatch.
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@chloeraccoon @patterfloof @GGMcBG You could just ask us to select the pictures of roads that have a pavement, and we would not even understand the question. But I’m terribly sorry that British imperialism did not result in future imperialists speaking the language in the precise way you would prefer
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@SyHoekstra @patterfloof @GGMcBG I find it funny that you think "hydrant" for water access for emergency use, is a british imperialism.
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@chloeraccoon @patterfloof @GGMcBG Oh no I think people speaking English on the continent of North America is British imperialism
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@SyHoekstra Iawn, nid problem wedyn, byddaf yn mynd yn ôl i siarad am hydrantau
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@SyHoekstra @chloeraccoon @patterfloof @GGMcBG It may be somewhat the remnants of SOME British imperialism, but it is not British Imperialism, it is more the flow and spread of language after immigration and settlers became established. It is not the same as say, the English language in Ireland, or in many other places that were invaded.
It is not the same as in Australia for instance where they tried to destroy the native language and forced English to be spoken and read in schools.
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@SyHoekstra @chloeraccoon @patterfloof @GGMcBG I'm just pointing out that there's a slight difference when the majority of people in a place are decended from immigrants and speak an imported and evolving language after cutting ties with the empire from where that language originated. It may be a remnant of British Imperialism, but it is not quite actually representative of it.
Different case in India, Hong Kong, Ireland for example.
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@SyHoekstra
I feel very much with you, as Fediverse has sensitized me to look at people with different abilities and to think about their needs.
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@SyHoekstra
Fabulous. Instant follow!
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@SyHoekstra
Futurama had the original "I am not a robot".
Which of the following would you most prefer?
A: A puppy,
B: A pretty flower from your sweetie, or
C: A large properly formatted data file?
There was also the offer a hot glue gun to fix Fry's leaky coolant which would probably give a definitive answer.
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@spzb The correct answer is the file, but the flower would also have been acceptable
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@SyHoekstra such a good episode. I may be compelled to rewatch it right now.
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@spzb I mean that sounds like a good use of time to me
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@SyHoekstra do you think that option might help me get my eyes cast server back up and running? I can’t use it because the hosting provider decided to use an image only OCR proof captcha with no audio option. You have to solve the darn capture to do literally anything, up to it, including starting your Dhar server.
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@evilcookies98 That sucks… But yeah, it could. You could also take a screenshot and try any number of free options, like Be My AI. I would even try pulling it up on your computer and using Gemini live stream from your phone
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@SyHoekstra true. Fortunately, I’ve got a jaws license so picture Mart is an option.
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@SyHoekstra And the whole point of that robot is that robots shouldn't be able to out-robot the robot, but if a robot can out-robot the robot then what's the point of the robot?
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@JesseF8693 Precisely
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@SyHoekstra
Maybe worth naming and shaming the captcha provider and the service using it, so others know what to avoid or where to complain?
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@adamsaidsomething That is probably worth it, but I did not catch the providers name unfortunately
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@adamsaidsomething @SyHoekstra What, and hope that the robot makers make the robot “better”, so the other robot can’t help the human prove to the robot that they’re not a robot? Do you want the human to not be able to make payments for their breathing rob^Wmachine? 😉
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@aspragg @SyHoekstra
Hoping that the robot makers actually include an audio version of the captcha, but fair point, if the robot makers just decided to make the captcha even harder that would suck
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@SyHoekstra
Hahaha, the way how you described this incident with a captcha is indeed funny to read and imagine the situation at the same in my head.
I wonder, how does your Screenreader process Emoji, what do you hear as an output?
@roblen
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@kranzkrone @roblen There are labels for all the emojis. I don’t know if they are standardized or not, but basically it says something like “red angry face emoji” or “three red double exclamation mark emojis”
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@SyHoekstra @kranzkrone Thank You. And interesting question. Via https://www.dbsv.org/social-media.html I found https://unicode.org/emoji/charts/full-emoji-list.html (Every Unicode Emoticon has a Short Name).
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@roblen @SyHoekstra @kranzkrone
There is some inconsistency between screen readers:
https://html5accessibility.com/stuff/2022/01/17/short-note-on-emoji-text-alternative-variations/
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@SyHoekstra And that's why I've heard it's annoying for users of screen readers when people's user names have a ton of emojis after them. @kranzkrone @roblen
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@ellane @kranzkrone @roblen True story. Really lots of emojis anywhere is annoying
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@SyHoekstra @ellane @kranzkrone @roblen my pet peeve are those "fonts" that are actually mathematical symbols. I immediately judge people who write their user names in those "fonts" to look cool or edgy or whatever people go for these days. I know it is mostly ignorance rather than malice...
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@rootsandcalluses
I know exactly what you meant and dislike it too! Horrible way of specialize a Username. 😐
Back in the Days when I was Teenager, there was another way of specialized writing names called "LEET Speak" referring to "Elite speak" with lots of Numbers in every Word as replacement for a somewhat similar Character. (I purposely excluded the numbers in this explanation!)
That must have been wild times for people being blind.
@SyHoekstra @ellane @roblen
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@kranzkrone @SyHoekstra @ellane @roblen Oh yeah, especially as you'd have to put together what those numbers represent. Seeing 1337 as LEET is one thing but hearing "one-three-three-seven" and "seeing" LEET is quite the challenge. At least "mathematical-symbol-a" is still spelling it out albeit annoyingly.
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@rootsandcalluses
Experiencing, in terms of seeing in front of the inner eyes, the World as a blind Person is a whole other cosmos in it's own, in my imagination.
@SyHoekstra @ellane @roblen
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@SyHoekstra
So just one or two Emojis at the end of a Sentence after the Dot is okay to process for you?
@ellane @roblen
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@ellane @SyHoekstra @kranzkrone @roblen @patterfloof To be fair, it's annoying anyway, screen reader or not...
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@chloeraccoon
Just for me it depends on the extent and excessive use of emoji in a Username but I could rather do without If having a choice.
@ellane @SyHoekstra @roblen @patterfloof
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@kranzkrone @ellane @SyHoekstra @roblen @patterfloof Not a direct involvement with the end user, but we have added a rule to our incoming mail filters that if the subject starts with 2 or more emojis, weigh it heavier as spam...
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@chloeraccoon
That's definitely a good Rule for a Mail Filter, will add this to mine Server too next time.
@ellane @SyHoekstra @roblen @patterfloof
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@ellane
Emojis in a Username is annoying for me too, it's unnecessary clutter. 😉
@SyHoekstra @roblen
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@SyHoekstra this is the insanity we live in.
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@SyHoekstra Ummmmm, yeah. I have yet to know of a robot that, er, needed help breathing.
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@Tarrenvane Lol yes. Also, if a robot paid for my machine, who is going to complain?
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@SyHoekstra
Meanwhile, at META: "WE NEED MORE BOTS!"
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@Beldarak The lesson to take from my story is we need to produce as many robots as possible to solve the problems caused by the other robots we have produced
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@SyHoekstra @Beldarak Indeed that’s the hope your story gave me. I have refused to solve CAPTCHAs for over a decade now. Can’t wait for the day when browsers simply defeat the CAPTCHA for you.
It was disturbing to find that the #ImageMagick support forum has a policy to refuse to help people trying to use IM to solve #CAPTCHA. They don’t understand that the CAPTCHAs themselves are the problem, blinded by the false idea that anti-robot is somehow pro-human.
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@SyHoekstra
Those captchas need to die. It was a stupid idea in the first place, and now AI is better at them than we are, so they've become completely pointless.
I try to avoid most sites using them, but some sites that really don't need them, still use them. Like webshops. If you make it hard for me to spend my money, I'll spend it elsewhere. But sometimes a site you absolutely need still uses one, and then what?
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@SyHoekstra are you SURE you're not a robot? Not even a little bit? :)
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