Ancestors

Toot

Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 11:37

Are you using #github for #FOSS ?

Small request: could you use FOSS instead?

Don't make #Microsoft your gatekeeper, use like #forgejo #codeberg or something.

https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/

Thanks to @conservancy 's @karen , Denver Gingerich and Bradley Kuhn for the #FOSDEM talk.

[#]fosdem2025

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Descendants

Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 11:41

@conservancy @karen

And my own thought: if your #FOSS project's #chat is on #Discord , I will not join.

I already know it will get enshittified. I will not give them a phone number, I don't want to get tracked and my data sold as a price of contributing to FOSS.

So yeah, I've been mostly absent from the #bevy #community for that reason.

I hope that changes one day.

[#]proprietary #Enshittification #freesoftware

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Written by Aviac on 2025-02-03 at 13:55

@dcz @conservancy @karen

I'm 100% on your side. I've asked about any plans to switch to FOSS alternatives to discord, but nothing is planned so far to not split the community.

However, we could start our own unofficial bevy matrix room. I think there's even one somewhere already 🤔

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Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 13:57

@_ count me in for a Matrix room!

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Written by Michael T Babcock on 2025-02-03 at 18:18

@dcz @conservancy @karen I miss developers using IRC

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Written by Jan Vlug on 2025-02-03 at 11:42

@dcz @conservancy @karen Thanks for this link. The use of GitHub annoys me a lot. In some repositories I made issues regarding migration to #FOSS. Next time I will add this link.

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Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 11:45

@janvlug @conservancy @karen I got sage advice from Karen: create something on Github for your project so you can lead people to your real repo and inform people about the problem.

I'll do that for #libobscura .

Also can't wait for #forgejo to federate. Without the help of network effects I am not sure Github can be dethroned.

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Written by Daniel Barlow on 2025-02-03 at 12:08

@dcz @janvlug @conservancy @karen same [re federation]. Though I'm happy to give out accounts on my private gitea for established #liminix contributors, there's no way for people new to the project to get started except by old-school patch-based workflows or by using their own hosting that I can pull from.

I do mirror to github (this was fairly straightforward to set up), and it's possible that some people looking at it "over there" think that's the canonical repo

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Written by Jan Vlug on 2025-02-03 at 12:25

@dcz @conservancy @karen

This approach is in a way related to #POSSE.

Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere.

https://indieweb.org/POSSE

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Written by Sandro :nixos: :verified_gay: on 2025-02-03 at 12:30

@dcz

@conservancy @karen the review system is so suboptimal, you cannot work with it. No suggestions is a real deal breaker for me.

Also having to constantly click accounts everywhere.... If I am busy I usually just skip things if I don't already have an account on the instance.

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Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 12:32

@sandro @conservancy @karen What kind of suggestions do you mean?

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Written by Snow on 2025-02-03 at 12:40

@dcz @conservancy @karen That's nice and all but if everybody is hosting their own git compatible server and they decide they don't want to work on the project anymore and kill their server. That makes a major problem for archiving. At least with Github the service isn't gonna die any time soon and they archive noteworthy projects. Also not to mention Github acts independently from Microsoft

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Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 12:45

@snow @conservancy @karen Github is known to remove projects against the users' wishes, so pick your poison.

https://umatechnology.org/github-removes-popular-open-source-youtube-dl-software/

And #youtube-dl is a noteworthy project I'd think.

What kind of (in)dependency does github have relating from Microsoft? Is it not wholly owned?

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Written by Snow on 2025-02-03 at 12:58

@dcz @conservancy @karen Skimming the article u linked I think controversially my opinion is they acted within their right sure they upset some people sure people can claim up and down that this makes them a bad company but in reality it broke youtube's terms of service and others terms of service. When you platform certain stuff you are liable for what that stuff is if people want to break terms of service they should host their own platform so they can take on their own liability instead of putting it on others that is my personal opinion. According to wikipedia it operates almost fully independently from Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub#:~:text=Acquisition%20by%20Microsoft,-Microsoft%20was%20on&text=The%20deal%20closed%20on%20October,a%20community%2C%20platform%20and%20business.

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Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 13:07

@snow @conservancy @karen You're right. With github you have no power to choose the terms of service you prefer to be under, so you should choose to be somewhere that actually fits your needs.

Code forges don't federate yet, but once they do, it'll be a no-brainer. Until then, Github still has the network effect on its side, incentivizing people to use its monopoly.

That "independently" quote references a Microsoft press release about the acquisition, so I am not confident in anything it says.

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Written by Snow on 2025-02-03 at 13:08

@dcz @conservancy @karen Wait you're telling me they're working on federating open source projects now? Like actively pushing the code around on the network like how mastodon does from server to server with messages?

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Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 13:10

@snow @conservancy @karen https://forgejo.org/2023-01-10-answering-forgejo-federation-questions/

At FOSDEM I talked to someone who knows about Forgejo and was told they even use ActivityPub. But don't quote me on that.

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Written by chfkch :nixos: :rust: on 2025-02-03 at 13:54

@dcz

Search for Forgefed, since i do not a have a link at hand right now.

@snow @conservancy @karen

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Written by Boud on 2025-02-03 at 19:05

@snow It's not just the code, it's also the meta-structures such as bug reports. For the #Forgefed specifications and main implementation #Forgejo , to answer questions about what actually gets (or should get) copied and when, why, and how, see the URLs.

@dcz

@chfkch

@conservancy

@karen

Forgefed: https://forgefed.org

Forgejo is implementing Forgefed: https://forgejo.org

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Written by Life is Tetris on 2025-02-03 at 14:26

@dcz

I have wondered why you'd need to conflate bug trackers with code repositories - put commit IDs in the bug page and the bug ID in the commit message. You don't even need hosting links if, like mailto:, you define URN's like ticket: and revision:

@snow @conservancy @karen

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Written by lj·rk @ #FOSDEM on 2025-02-03 at 12:41

@dcz @conservancy @karen

I'm coming with a rather unusual use-case: I often have binaries and need to reverse/match those against open source or leaked components. That's where GitHub was quite nice for and it makes me a bit sad that some projects aren't on GH at all. However, a simple mirror is enough for me here.

And hopefully, in the future, we can have some kind of federation with a search.

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Written by DrYak on 2025-02-03 at 13:02

@dcz also the good thing given that git is a distributed svc: nothing prevents you to start using GitLab, while still having GitHub around for visibility - you can always push to multiple upstreams.

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Written by ReduxFlakes :antiverified: on 2025-02-03 at 13:18

@dcz @conservancy @karen the only problem I have is there's more chance that one of my projects gets attention on GitHub than on other platforms because GitHub is just bigger. Same with its ecosystem for workflows and apps.

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Written by dorotaC on 2025-02-03 at 13:20

@redux @conservancy @karen From the link:

Add this section to your README.md to share your concerns about GitHub with your users.

https://sfconservancy.org/static/docs/SupportGiveUpGitHub-README-snippet.md

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Written by ReduxFlakes :antiverified: on 2025-02-03 at 13:23

@dcz @conservancy @karen that is really nice, thanks!

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Written by Daniel Marks on 2025-02-03 at 13:28

@dcz @conservancy @karen I have over 50 open source projects on Github I've created and man years of time invested in them. I've asked questions but received cursory or no answers regarding GitHub alternatives. That is not reassuring. GitHub has a history of reliability and Microsoft's reputation would be tarnished with developers if they did a rug pull. If you want to convince me you have to show the alternative is reliable and no data will be lost.

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Written by Life is Tetris on 2025-02-03 at 14:21

@profdc9

Are you on board with your code having been slurped up by LLMs? Or would you say it is a non-issue since they slurped up websites and other code forges anyway?

Their masterstroke was probably the Pages feature, which made them the webpage for projects and cemented the network effect. If project authors have their own project websites, discovery and patch submission wouldn't be a problem (forge federation or not).

@dcz @conservancy @karen

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Written by M@ Bntn on 2025-02-03 at 13:34

@dcz @conservancy @karen What about GitLab?

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Written by altf4 on 2025-02-03 at 15:43

@dcz @conservancy @karen Also, It's 2025, still no support of IPv6. Shows you the interest in their own product and users

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Written by Andre_601 🇨🇭 :kt_bs: on 2025-02-03 at 16:22

@dcz Only thing I dislike about the linked post, is that Codeberg is written CodeBerg...

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Written by Leszek on 2025-02-03 at 18:26

@dcz @conservancy @karen yes, yes, yes, I'm starting all new repos exclusively at @Codeberg and soon in my #selfhosted @forgejo instance. Thank you for building such wonderful tools!

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Written by Daniele Verducci 🧉 on 2025-02-03 at 21:07

@dcz @conservancy @karen I've been using #GitHub for my open source projects until now. Now I'm testing a selfhosted #Gitea instance (https://git.ichibi.eu). I mirrored there all my repositories and created there a new project that's not hosted elsewere to test if there was any problem using it to feed the #FDroid build system. It's going well, so I'll transfer the other ones leaving a note on the old GitHub repositories to let people know the repos have moved.

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Written by Critter (he/him) on 2025-02-04 at 13:20

@dcz @conservancy @karen once federation on forges works it'll be so much easier to convince people to move since it'll be possible to collaborate and sync without needing accounts everywhere

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