Remember when people were arrested from throwing soup on paintings to protest #ClimateChange? Yeah? Well I wonder if everyone who wanted them arrested is starting to do the math.
https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/grounds-of-getty-museum-in-la-catch-fire-the-washington-posts-cartoonist-quits-over-censorship-1234729430/
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim Because everyone who is against destroying art to draw attention to an issue which is not related to art is a climate denier?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from edgeofeurope@mastodon.social
@edgeofeurope @Brad_Rosenheim the art was not destroyed (although in one case the frame was slightly damaged)
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Nicovel0@mastodon.social
@Nicovel0 @Brad_Rosenheim Next time I'll throw soup against your front door to protest in favour of gay rights. Because yeah, front doors and gay rights, that makes sense.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from edgeofeurope@mastodon.social
@Brad_Rosenheim
Front doors usually aren't behind a thick sheet of glass, while the paintings were. Get out of your ass please
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ki@chaos.social
@edgeofeurope if we're getting into soup throwing I'd like to volunteer to throw soup on your front door in protest of "guy posting shit opinions on the internet"
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from lucretia@final.town
@lucretia I don't think you'd be able to reach my front door in southern Italy in a way that doesn't contribute a lot to the climate disaster but you're welcome to try.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from edgeofeurope@mastodon.social
@edgeofeurope @Nicovel0
You're welcome to throw soup at my front door to improve gay rights. If you get the same kind of media coverage as those climate protesters got I would highly respect it, and gladly clean up after you.
It's sort of exactly the point you're missing: get the priorities straight. To spell it out: doing something about climate change is way more useful and necessary than having an opinion about people throwing soup. It's not about the soup!
@Brad_Rosenheim
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from iwein@mas.to
@edgeofeurope @Brad_Rosenheim An issue not related to art? Who’s going to make the art when we’re all dead, Rob? The aardvarks?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from aral@mastodon.ar.al
@aral @Brad_Rosenheim Everything is related to the climate crisis, of course. Some things a bit more than others though.
But somehow it's been decided to attack art. Fine, but don't expect me to remain silent on the incomprehensible idiocy of this fuckery.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from edgeofeurope@mastodon.social
@edgeofeurope @aral Fire destroys art. Soup does not.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim @aral You understand my point perfectly well. There is no reason to single out art for your protests. None whatsoever. Get a goddamn grip and organize to make an impact, instead of making climate protesters look like idiots.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from edgeofeurope@mastodon.social
@edgeofeurope @aral
Nothing is out of bounds. Protests are supposed to annoy, even shock, people. You are showing that this one was effective.
When civilization collapses, the art, which is probably the greatest symbol of our civilization, will cease to matter. Cease to be protected. Cease to be created. Cease to exist. That is much sadder, shocking, riling, than a can of soup or removable paint. I think you see the point of my post. It is long past time society wakes up to what is truly important.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim @aral The collective has decided to attack art and resistance to that only proves the collective is always right.
Morons, the lot of you.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from edgeofeurope@mastodon.social
@edgeofeurope @Brad_Rosenheim Perspective, Rob. Perspective. That’s what you’re lacking.
Also, you may now fuck off.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from aral@mastodon.ar.al
@edgeofeurope I'm honestly shocked you're still saying that art was "attacked", when you've acknowledged that the art was never, in fact, endangered. Every one of the protests was designed to ensure the art was preserved.
You're mad just to be mad, not for any real reason.
But, sure bud. The protestors are the "morons".
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Azuaron@hachyderm.io
@edgeofeurope @Brad_Rosenheim @aral cf. other observers asking "what has football got to do with the climate crisis?" / "Why block this road?" / "Why block this airport?" / "Why disrupt the snooker?" / "Why occupy the science museum?" / "Why blockade this bank?" / "How does this carnival prevent the climate crisis?" / etc. etc. It's not just about works of art at all.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from timsk@mastodon.social
@timsk Great point. It erases our voice no matter how we try to bring up this existential problem that everyone seems to be ignoring.
@edgeofeurope @aral
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@edgeofeurope @Brad_Rosenheim @aral sorry but are you dense like that due to some condition or do you train ?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from joel_falcou@mastodon.social
@edgeofeurope @Brad_Rosenheim @aral People protest at museums because museums accept funding from the petrochemical industry. They may have board members from the petrochemical industry. It's not unrelated, it's about divestment. You don't get a museum to distance themselves from Big Oil by waving signs on Main Street. Throwing soup on (protected) paintings is a very mild and careful way to make their point.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from rejinl@masto.nyc
@edgeofeurope @aral @Brad_Rosenheim Is there any art that's been destroyed by climate protestors?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Mabande@mastodon.social
@Mabande
To my knowledge, nothing was destroyed by climate protestors. But my knowledge is limited by only knowing about some high profile cases. There may be other examples which resulted in permanent date that others can point out.
@edgeofeurope @aral
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim @edgeofeurope @aral Same here, all I've ever seen are headlines about "horrible climate protestors DESTROYS art!" and then hidden in the article or in a follow up "no at was harmed and the protestors made sure to target heavily protected art to be on the safe side", so I'm really interested in getting any info to the contrary.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Mabande@mastodon.social
@Brad_Rosenheim @luca Two wrongs don’t make a right. The people throwing soup on priceless works of art only engendered animosity toward the movement. It was counterproductive. They helped this happen.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from j_s_j@mastodon.social
@j_s_j That's not true. This would have happened whether soup was thrown at paintings or not. The soup did not help this to happen.
@Brad_Rosenheim @luca
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from mimi@spore.social
@mimi @j_s_j @Brad_Rosenheim @luca He's not blaming the soup-throwers, he's blaming the people who wanted them arrested.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from jhavok@mastodon.social
@mimi @j_s_j @Brad_Rosenheim @luca
And, unlike with raging wildfires, the paintings were not, in fact damaged.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from anarchic_teapot@lingo.lol
@j_s_j @Brad_Rosenheim @luca They tried this after trying a whole load of other stuff that did not really work. If you make all sorts of protests illegal then eventually someone might throw soup at a painting.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from tomw@mastodon.social
@j_s_j are you seriously saying Just Stop Oil share blame for these fires? Are you real!?
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from lucretia@final.town
@lucretia They do. Their antics just turn people away from the movement. And that makes climate change harder to tackle. Don’t like it? I didn’t make the rules.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from j_s_j@mastodon.social
@j_s_j this simply isn't true though, and it's absolutely absurd you'd try and blame climate activists for massive wildfires sooner than the people who are actually responsible.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from lucretia@final.town
@lucretia Who said I don’t blame them, too? I drive an ICE vehicle. You go out there and attack people on your side. Both of us contribute to the problem. I’m just pointing it out.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from j_s_j@mastodon.social
@j_s_j JSO aren't "attacking" anybody, at this point I simply have to assume that you are so deeply misinformed about the situation it is not worth further discussion.
Goodbye forever.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from lucretia@final.town
@j_s_j @luca But why can we not flip that perspective?
“...throwing climate-altering pollution into a priceless atmosphere, the only one of its kind known to humans, only engendered animosity toward the capitalist movement. It was counterproductive. No one wants capitalism now!”?
I don't think I'll ever understand the double standard.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim @luca That’s just being obtuse. The difference is readily obvious if you’re not trying to miss the point.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from j_s_j@mastodon.social
@j_s_j @luca If your point is that we need to protect the status quo so we don't disrupt too many people while we half-heartedly try to stop global warming, then, yes, I am trying to miss the point.
It is a double standard that the art is more precious than the planet that allowed the development of the intelligence to both create and to appreciate the art. It is frankly quite stupid.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim I’m out. There’s no point conversing with a brick wall.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from j_s_j@mastodon.social
@j_s_j Agreed.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@j_s_j
Bullshit on steroids.
May you experience the consequences of the climate crisis to the fullest.
[#]blockedfordisinformation
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from proscience@toot.community
@Brad_Rosenheim no. That would mean that they would have to change their behaviour.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from wiekkie70@mastodon.online
@Brad_Rosenheim I also struggle with these actions of climate activists as they do not seem to be helpful (imho). Nevertheless I feel the pain and struggle why these actions seem to be necessary.
And of course you can not vandalize stuff without being prosecuted.
That being said, there are companies, governments and people who are driving the climate change and are responsible for some of these destruction. See also the term "slow violence". I guess/hope there will be laws against this also.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from skonair@mastodonsweden.se
@skonair Here is a different perspective: Let's say that the companies are vandalizing the planet. I think we can argue about that somewhat, but in the end of the day, it is true. So, if we cannot vandalize stuff without being prosecuted, why are they not only un-prosecuted, but also subsidized by the governments that they control?
In the end, throwing soup on some paintings, which feels drastic and desperate at the same time now, will seem like we did too little, we were too weak, and that we didn't really care about our planet.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim I agree to some extend. For me, people are always more important than material things. And I would like to see that reflected in law.
And I hate that companies can make profit by destroying the foundation of life of other people.
And there must be laws against that too.
I still think that companies don't do that because they have an evil masterplan. It is because common people consume the product of these companies.
If we can't overcome capitalism and exchange it ...(1/2)
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from skonair@mastodonsweden.se
@Brad_Rosenheim wow. People in this thread not understanding that non-damaging yet highly visible PR stunts that start conversations are actually much less worse than burning a planet. People sure do like echoing statements that make no sense
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ATLeagle@mastodon.online
@ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim Reminds me of the pearl clutching around colin kaepernick.
There is never a way for these type of people to properly protest.
When this happened:
https://news.sky.com/story/private-airfield-where-taylor-swifts-jet-landed-targeted-by-just-stop-oil-protesters-13155864
Plenty of assholes said that this too was counterproductive. There is never a way to satisfy these people might as well luigi some Oil CEO's.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Benaresh@mastodon.social
@Benaresh @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from RhinosWorryMe@climatejustice.social
@RhinosWorryMe @Benaresh @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
And then Luigi shot a CEO in the head.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from MichelPatrice@jasette.facil.services
@RhinosWorryMe @Benaresh @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
Same applies when you're trying to fight against climate change. And it's basically the same people who are objecting. Somehow I get the vague impression that privileged white men might be involved in more than just a few problems of this world. 🤔
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from duncan_blues@norden.social
@RhinosWorryMe
...and you want win an a rgumentation ==> leave X
@Benaresh @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim @thijs_lucas
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ukoenzen@mastodon.social
@ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
The planet is burning, our water is poisoned, we've killed off countless different species of living things... We're on the verge of ecological collapse.
Anyone who is still wringing their hands over completely non-destructive and symbolic protests needs to get some perspective. NOW.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from artemis@dice.camp
@artemis @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim most of the people posting this stuff on here are just talking to each other frankly, and I say this as someone who cares deeply about these issues.
It’s all kind of pointless without a general strike or just preparing and waiting until enough people are directly harmed that society at large does something.
Until then we’re basically just in for years of disaster porn and self inflicted misery.
The reaction hot takes are a microcosm of the larger issue.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from dotsie@mastodon.social
@dotsie iirc General Strike 2028 was in talks
@artemis @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from MxVerda@lgbtqia.space
@ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
Of course even damaging ones are much less worse than burning the planet, but the thing is that they claim their protests are not damaging but sometimes they are.
When they sprayed red paint on Finnish parliament, it costed a fortune to have it cleaned and you could still see the traces last time I was there...
And I don't think it really starts conversations we NEED to have.
(I am all for damaging private jets though :P)
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TOrynski@mastodon.scot
@TOrynski If I came to Helsinki for the first time, and you showed me the Parliament building, and I asked about the marks, I would say, "Damn, that's cool that Finns care enough about climate change to protest!"
@ATLeagle
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@Brad_Rosenheim @ATLeagle
And most people would just say "those protesters do more harm than good, as by destroying heritage buildings they divert the conversation from the actual problem that needs to be discussed".
And they would be right, as proved by the fact that we are discussing vandalised building and not what Finns ACTUALLY do about climate change and why this is not enough.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TOrynski@mastodon.scot
@TOrynski @Brad_Rosenheim i see your point, but also ask what was being done to listen to other types of protests prior to graffiti? This conversation can be easily steered if desired with "ya, it's too bad that protesters had to go to this length'
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ATLeagle@mastodon.online
@ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
Unfortunately other forms of protests are not being heard enough either. But it does not mean that this one works.
If anything, I think this works even worse, because it steers discussion away from the climate disaster we are facing to just ordinary vandalism.
Saying that, I don't have solution that would work. I only noting that this one works as bad, or worse, as previous things we tried. Because somehow this "easy steer" clearly does not work.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TOrynski@mastodon.scot
@TOrynski @ATLeagle So let's start using the term "vandalizing the atmosphere."
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@TOrynski
And that is not just rhetorical. If we go on the offensive and use common legal terms in whatever languages we speak, it makes it harder to simply retroflect the discussion to petty crime.
@ATLeagle
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Brad_Rosenheim@climatejustice.social
@TOrynski @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim
The point is ; those precious works of art, buildings etc will be worth nothing when the planet is inhabitable. So yes, it is really stupid that a building is that precious to spend so much money to clean.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from alper@sfba.social
@alper @ATLeagle @Brad_Rosenheim the point is: protesting by vandalizing is counterproductive as it results in people discussing vandalizing, not the topic of the protest and, in many cases, turn people against the protesters and, in turn, against the message they are trying to put across.
=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TOrynski@mastodon.scot This content has been proxied by September (ba2dc).Proxy Information
text/gemini