I tallied up the cost of building the bike wheel batteries last night.
$70 - and an extra $30 in shipping.
Sure, I could probably get that down if I could get everything in one place, but the full parts list includes forty eight screws, twenty four coupling nuts, twelve battery clips, six battery cells, two battery management system circuits, and two 2.1mm jacks.
I'm sure I might be able to get all of that on Amazon, but there's no telling the quality of it...
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And the battery cells themselves are half of the cost of parts. So there'd be minimal savings from redesigning the part to require fewer - or even no - fasteners or battery clips.
Ultimately, if the design even works, I want to put it out into the world. The parts are easy to acquire. There's not much soldering in the wiring - I taught myself in a weekend.
It's just the cases that a person needs... so I guess I should research print on demand solutions.
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No prototype survives contact with production.
The solder joints must be imperfect, because the light is temperamental and will turn on and off as I move things around to close the shells. The wires are interfering with each other, physically at least. There's too much happening in the main shell.
No worries, I can iterate on the design. I need to give more room for the wires...
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I was able to take it apart and put it back together again. Turning the center wedge 180 degrees (so the battery is "on top" when unfolded) meant for cleaner wire routes.
Tomorrow we'll charge it up, and do a bench test - see how long it can power the 12V LEDs I salvaged from a broken bike tail light.
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That feeling when you have a working prototype.
Half of one, anyway. The LED strips are on order and will arrive later this week. Then I need to decide if I want to adhere the strips to the rims or print dozens of spoke clips to make the lights less permanent.
The weight is good - approximately one pound / half a kilogram. We'll see how it stands up in motion next weekend.
[#]biketooter #3dprinting #diy #electronics
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I tried to get an instant quote from a print-on-demand shop for this and it says about $15 to print, and errored on shipping. Let's say $10. So at least $40 to print a pair of these, plus around $60 in supplies (plus shipping), most of which can't be found at your local hardware store.
I sure am good at designing complicated things...
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The mark I prototype is a successful failure.
Everything worked, for a while. The battery showed a nominal 12V and could power a salvaged e-bike tail light, and later a pair of 5V LED strips wired in series.
But then something went wrong - either the BMS shorted and took a cell with it, or vice versa. I have some (hopefully) better BMS boards on order and will build the mark II when they arrive.
I've also ordered a few options for the lights and will test them head to head.
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The two key metrics are brightness and longevity, with the latter being more important. I'd rather have modest lights that only have to be charged once in a while than overwhelming lights that have to be charged after a few hours of use.
The current contenders are:
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Spending a lazy Saturday iterating on the mark II of the Bike Wheel Hub Battery case.
This iteration requires fewer fasteners and has a more coherent construction history in Fusion 360. It also addresses the issue of the wires pinching between the shells.
[#]biketooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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I wonder if anyone has done the work to quantify the bed adhesion of #3dprinting based on total contact area - for both manual removal (a pulling force along the Z+ axis) and programmatic removal (a pushing force along the Y-axis)
Well, I've got nothing better to do today...
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The results are .... interesting.
The model printed at an angle was much easier to remove - too easy, in fact. The supports are better adhered to the bed than they are to the model.
The model printed at an angle has a uniform outer surface. The lower edge has some defects that could be remedied with additional support fins. There may be some droop in the holes and slots but they are still within tolerances.
[#]3dprinting
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Get in, loser, we're doing science.
One of the four options for my bike wheel lights has arrived. At least one other one should arrive today and then we can start doing bench tests and best of all, make a spreadsheet!
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Any good experiment requires a control. The baseline is the Wheel Brightz I currently have - twenty micro LEDs powered by three AAs in a narrow plastic tube.
I measure the lights with a light meter at the center of the wheel, and measure their draw using a multimeter.
Current: 5V / 4.7 mAh
Brightness: ~5 Lux
Vibe: Ok at night, in motion.
Link - https://brightz.com/products/wheel-brightz
Price - $15 / each
[#]bikeTooter
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First challenger is a two meter iNextStation "neon" LED tube.
Size: 12mm x 5mm x 2000mm
Power: 12V / 17 mAh
Brightness: 250 Lux
Vibe: Tron!
Link - https://a.co/d/4819hB9
Price - $10 / each
I'll probably need to 3D print some clips to attach it to the spokes with the optimum orientation. It has a 240° beam angle so it should be visible from both sides of the wheel.
If my math is right, I can get 200-250 hours of illumination on a charge.
[#]bikeTooter
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Second lighting option in order of arrival and ease of testing is a length of LED rope light from Axel Lighting, a "marine and outdoor lighting" company.
This stuff is pricy, and a 27.5" wheel needs a little over seven feet. But it's meant for boats and Portland is wet, so I thought I'd give it a try.
Size - 3/8" x 86"
Power: 12V / 17 mAh
Brightness: 100 Lux
Vibe: Sparkles
Link: https://www.apexlighting.com/boat-lights/led-strips/led-ropelight-perfoot/
Price: $8 / ft
The lights are 1" apart, and will blur together at speed.
[#]bikeTooter
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Pros
Cons
I maybe have to modify the plug, but it's a good option. Visible from all angles, and the spacing means the there will be a dynamic element to the lighting when in motion.
It's out of the question to use if I go down the route of building and selling full kits - a 150' spool is $1,000 and would make 10 sets, so that adds $50 to the materials cost per wheel.
Yeah, no.
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I've got two more options to test - the EL wire is going to need some soldering so may not happen tonight. Next up is a pair of 5V COB LEDs wired in series. I expect it to be bright and thirsty.
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Surprise, surprise. The dual 5V COB LED strips are about the same as the 12V lights.
Size: 5mm x 2000mm
Volts: 8-9V
Power: 11 mAh
Brightness: 30 Lux
Vibe: Sleek
Link: https://www.superlightingled.com/super-slim-4mm-wide-5v-cob-led-strip-320ledsm-p-5707.html
Price: $15 / pair
Pros - lights on both side of the wheel, sharp, preciae appearance.
Cons - fiddly, may not stick well, slightly more complicated wiring.
[#]bikeTooter
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I'll solder the EL wire to the plug tomorrow - and I've ordered an option based on how well the "neon" LEDs act - a three sided diffuser that should give off more light.
And then I have to decide between the options, based on all the metrics I've listed.
I'm leaning towards the neon LEDs; so far they have been the brightest.
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The EL wire was a bust. I don't know if I damaged it while trying to solder it, or if the inverter is bad, but I couldn't get it to light.
Given how fragile the wires are, I don't think it would have survived being in bike wheels for very long.
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So, I have three workable options
The "neon" LED I got is single sided with a 5mmx12mm profile with a 240° beam angle. I've ordered an alternate diffuser that has a 8mm x 8mm profile with a 180° beam angle but a larger glow surface. We'll see which one looks better. The rope light is probably the most durable, but the most expensive.
Next step - build the mark II battery and road test the lights.
[#]bikeTooter
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The second time you do something, it comes out better.
Once it's charged (and a last minute fix to the tolerances on the through mount for the DC jack is printed) I can do a wheel test and finally see the lights in motion.
[#]biketooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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There's a lesson to be had here: when designing for a bike wheel, test your mockup against both wheels.
The rear wheel has a lot more stuff in the way.
Edit - turns out the front has issues, too
[#]biketooter #diy #3dprinting
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Using some novel subtractive manufacturing techniques (I drilled a hole in the shell) I was able to connect a 2.1mm DC plug to the battery.
Unfortunately the battery case is not weather safe anymore - I'll need to plug some holes if I want to road test this.
Then I discovered that the "neon" LED tube I bought for testing purposes bends the wrong way to weave between the spokes. So I zip tied it. Maybe not the best solution but it got the job done.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #3dprinting #electronics
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[#]bikeTooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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A slow day at work gave me plenty of time to iterate on the design for the case, pushing the asymmetry I added last night by moving the inner screw point to the corner so that it overlaps the neighboring shell.
I don't think I can make this any simpler - not without switching to print-in-place fasteners. All six pieces print flat on the bed, although if I really had to, or wanted to, I could model a support structure and print them on edge, Slant 3D style.
[#]3dprinting
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Oh hell yes!
I stumbled across American Bright LEDs, a domestic supplier of, among other things, LED rope lights. DigiKey and Mouser are among their resellers. So it would have been possible for me to get all the electronic components for this project from a single supplier!
Although I would still have gone somewhere else for the battery cells - Mouser doesn't carry 21700 cells, DigiKey charges $10 each.
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I managed to wire up the LED rope light so it can plug into the new battery prototype and do a wheel test.
As an aside, I'm curious how this stuff is made - it looks like a series of LEDs and resistors connector by bare wire, but it's embedded in a clear PVC tube, with a center void.
At speed the LED rope lights look basically the same as the "neon" LED strip in a diffuser. The difference is the rope light has 360° visibility, while the diffuser depends on the profile.
[#]bikeTooter
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The rope light is durable and easy to install - it's thick enough that it's a friction fit between the spokes. It's waterproof, and there are multiple domestic resellers in the US.
But its expensive, and I've had a hard time finding stores that sell it by the foot, or in 16 ft/5m lengths. And the stores that do sell it by the foot don't sell all the colors. I've found one exception but they don't list prices, so I'll have to reach out and see what they'd charge.
[#]bikeTooter
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I'm beginning to see why nobody has ever tried something like this as a commercial product yet.
LED rope light retails for about $2 / ft in 150' spools. Assume $1 / ft wholesale. It takes about 15' for an adult bike. A waterproof DC power cable set is $2 each - assume $1 wholesale.
Add in the two pin connectors and some wires, and you have about $20 in parts. Rule of three says you sell that for $60.
That's just the lights. Don't get me started on what it costs to build a 12V battery...
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But on the flip side, I remember hearing one of the guys at the bike shop once remark that there's no margin in the bikes themselves, but in the accessories.
I don't know that every cyclist would be willing to drop $100 a wheel on lights when there's a "good enough" option for $15 a wheel.
But as the saying goes, "don't by cheap tools". You can get a cheap cordless drill for $30 and it will last a year, or a name brand one for $300 and it will last a decade.
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"But Ryan, your dad bought a circular saw a garage sale for $5 in the 90s and it still works!"
There's a difference between a saw used once in a while for DIY weekend projects or community theater set construction vs a saw used every day by someone in a trade.
Likewise, there's a difference between the accessories you put on a kid's bike so their helicopter parent will let them ride their bike around the block vs the accessories you put on a bike you ride to work every day.
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Took a ride in the rain to give the latest iteration of the lights a field test. The lights stayed on and the inside of the battery stayed dry.
I need to get parts for a second battery in the front wheel, but that will have to wait until the new year.
I'm finding that PETG doesn't like to have things glued to it. Or maybe I should try to glue the foam spacers on vertically, rather than horizontally along a concave surface.
[#]biketooter #3dprinting #diy #electronics
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I reached out to the lighting company that had SKUs in all the different colors. Turns out they don't do custom orders at this scale (15'). Also marine rope light is way over spec-ed for what I'm after. But, the sales rep did point me at a domestic supplier of RGB LED strips, so that's good.
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I'm just a boy, standing in front of the internet, asking it why omni-directional marine grade RGB LED 3/8" rope light isn't a thing.
Best I can do is 5mm RGB LED strips in a flexible silicone diffuser tube, but I've yet to find a domesticat supplier.
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AdaFruit has a cool, dual edge RGB LED strip that would be amazing on bike wheels, but there's two problems.
It's only 1 meter long, and it takes 5V. I need a little over 2 meters per wheel, and 12V.
As much as I wanted to avoid sticking the LEDs to the wheel rim - weaving them between the spokes is better long term - I may have no other option...
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I just had a terrible idea.
I really, really want marine style RGB LED rope lights - bulbs spaced 1" apart in a clear tube for 360° visibility.
I may be able to just make this myself... looking at the solid color LEDs I have, it's just a bunch of LEDs in series-parallel with a resistor.
Edit: ugh, to be able to wire RGB LED bulbs in series you need the six pin variety...
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!!!
I found a shop that sells neon RGB LEDs that meets all my requirements!
✅ 12V DC
✅ Vertical bend
✅ Narrow profile (0.4" / 10mm)
✅ IP68 waterproof
✅ Domestic supplier
Only drawback is the cost - an 8' length is $134. Each. You could get the supplies to make these for $80 plus shipping from China.
But these would be perfect for bike wheel lights!
[#]biketooter
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As I'm continuing to spin my wheels (see what I did there?) about the options for wheel lights I had an "oh, right, duh" moment.
You don't need to do a continuous strip of lights around the rim. It's just what I want for my bike.
You could do a trio of strips along the spokes. You could do individual lights on the spokes. You could program an array of lights to animate patterns.
The important thing is that the battery will last longer than most of the off the shelf options out there.
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Having 12V available to power my hypothetical wheel lights has opened up so many options for repurposing existing products.
Boat lights. Car lights. Motorcycle lights.
So many options when you're not limited to a couple AAs or a watch battery.
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As I continue to my search for the ideal source for 12V bike wheel lights I've come across a company that sells wheel lights for motorcycles at any length in roughly 2" increments, from 2" to 197".
They're not "neon" LEDs but the ability to order custom lengths makes up that.
https://www.boogeylights.com/low-profile-led-light-strips/
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One of my Christmas gifts for my sister was a tune up of her bike. While at the shop I eyeballed the hubs and they all seemed to be a fairly consistent size and shape. All look to be within plus or minus 10mm of each other.
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It occurs to me that the concept of adding lights to a bike for safety instead of aesthetic is probably so American (and Canadian) on a concept that even someone bilingual and fluent in Dutch and English could not explain it to someone in the Netherlands.
"What do you mean the bicycle lane in the street!? And there's no barrier!?"
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The excitement of the hub battery / wheel lights project has waned a little as I've been on vacation and haven't been able to do anything but think about it.
I could keep it to myself. I could release it open source. I could sell the model and the plans. I could gather the parts and sell kits. I could build and sell whole units, battery not included because shipping.
Each level involves more effort, more risk, more return.
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Keeping it to myself is the easy option. It's out there and if someone is motivated enough, the could recreate the results from scratch.
Releasing it open source means a lower barrier of entry for someone to get it for themselves, and also they can change it to fit their needs.
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Selling the model and a set of plans under my own name comes at a risk; incorporating an LLC comes at a cost. And there's the question of whether anyone would buy an empty battery case and a set of instructions that then tells you to go buy more things that can't/shouldn't be all gotten on Amazon.
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Assembling kits with all the components (sans battery cells) and selling those suddenly makes me the bottleneck. I'd have to maintain inventory of the parts, and either print cases on demand or do bulk orders from a print farm. Then pack and ship and all that jazz.
Building and shipping full batteries (again, sans cells) adds another several hours of work to each unit and increases the number of things that could go wrong. And increases the amount of my time I need to charge for.
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I always tell myself not to monetize my hobbies, because then they become chores, but I feel I have something cool here; I just can't see how to make it scale to profit.
I have a good job (for now) and I'm doing okay (for now), but I see the appeal of the capitalist myth. Invent an awesome product, sell it for a profit, retire early.
The imposter syndrome is loudly telling me I don't deserve to be well off, especially when my sisters are struggling to make ends meet. What gives me the right?
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I could keep spiraling through this loop for dozens more posts, but Mastodon is not my therapist, so I won't.
I need to make sure that the hub battery even works before I commit to next steps - and that means building the a second one, installing the lights, and riding with it for several weeks or months.
My math says the battery should last up to 250 hours. I think my math is wrong. But even 20 hours of runtime would mean I would only have to charge once every week or two...
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A blindingly obvious realization about the battery lets me move one more component from "order online" to "get it at the hardware store"
Metal is conductive.
Screws are made of metal.
If I can confirm hardware stores sell individual 2.1mm DC extension cords, I can modify the case and write a BOM for the build that gets everything from the hardware store except for the battery and battery management system.
Progress!
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Actually I'm fine with the DC plugs being bought with the cells and BMS since that can still all be done at one site, assuming they're in stock. I've been trying to avoid a BOM that lists multiple suppliers.
Anyone know of a store* that sells metric fasteners AND lithium ion battery components?
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Fuck me in every orifice, clockwise starting from my left ear. There is a "store" that carries all the components necessary to build the battery, assuming the "screws as contacts" design.
Wal-Mart. Mother. Fucking. WAL-MART.
They have the metric fasteners.
They have the 2.1mm DC connectors
They have the lithium ion cells
They have the battery management system
They have the incidentals (wires, wire strippers, screw terminals, wire nuts...)
(Screams into the void)
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With the perspective of a good night's sleep and the last day of the year, I've been getting way ahead of myself, as usual.
I've created something new, something potentially useful, but I need to prove out it's usefulness. I got caught up in worrying about profit and production.
The lights arrive on the 2nd, as will the components for the second battery. I've got a few days off before I go back to work to do a few test rides. And a longevity test - up to 24 hours continous use.
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Get in loser, we're doing science.
[#]bikeTooter #diy #electronics #3dprinting
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Three hours later, and the light's are still on. So it would last for a commute, at least.
I'm taking a reading every hour with a multimeter - both volts and amps. I need some more components to wire in the power meter.
| Time | Volts | mAh |
| ---- | ---- | ---- |
| 00m | 12.44 | 16.7 |
| 60m | 11.36 | 15.4 |
| 120m | 10.45 | 13.87 |
| 180m | 9.28 | 12.26 |
The specs say these LEDs are 12V 2A, and the battery is 12V 5A so shouldn't it have already gone out yet? (Not that I am complaining...)
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An update - the battery died just short of four hours, reading 0.0 V at P+/P- and 8.4 V at B+/B-, which tells me that the BMS went into standby. I reset it by plugging it into the charge for a split second, and the lights came back on for a few minutes.
So, four hours at full power, give or take. Tomorrow, we'll try it at 50% power to see if it lasts eight hours.
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I also need to test it with the LED rope light; it has fewer LEDs and may last longer. I should also test it with three 12" segments to emulate what a spoke based setup would look like.
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I am, as they say, an idiot. Or more precisely, self taught at electronics and still learning.
The 12V LED strip is wired in series parallel, with three LEDs to a series. Each series draws about 20 mA. There are about 150 LEDs in the strip, so fifty serieses each drawing 20 mA, for about 1,000 mA.
Which explains why the battery only lasted four hours.
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So, that would mean that a 3 or 4 LED module on its own would last around 250 hours; three modules would last around 80 hours. A trio of 12" light bars would last 20 hours. In theory.
So, the trade off - do I want bright lights around the whole rim that need to be charged every day, or do I build a lower density light strip that can last for a week or two? Or settle for three line of lights that blur together into a disk? Or three modules of lights that blur together into a ring?
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Coming full circle, if I went back to the glow in the dark rims powered by four small sets of UV LEDs, a 12V battery could power that for days, maybe weeks.
But then I'm limited by color, and daylight. Although I should test how well glow in the dark filament does compared to glow in the dark paint...
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Test two underway - same setup as before, an 8' 12V LED strip powered by a 12V 5A battery in a custom 3D printed case, simulating a bike wheel rim light.
Prior results - About 4 hours runtime at 100% brightness
Prediction - About 8 hours runtime at 50% brightness
Science!
[#]biketooter #diy #electronics #3edprinting
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@yantor3d
In towns, bike lanes usually are just "painted on the street" in The Netherlands. Outside, it depends on what sort of street it is. Bikes may just cycle at the edge of the road, on either marked or unmarked ("just cycle near the edge") bike lanes, or be fully separated from cars.
But, we're used to it from an early age, and most people in cars are sometimes on bikes, too...
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@cvwillegen Really? All the videos on the "Not Just Bikes" channel make it seem like the Netherlands is a pedestrian and cycling paradise where cars are barely tolerated interlopers, forced to drive at low speeds along narrow, single lane roads while cyclists ride alone grade separated, double wide bike lanes paved in gold...
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@yantor3d
It fully depends on where you are. But, it's friendly for pedestrians and cyclists!
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@yantor3d Feels like you should be able to simulate/render what the right number/layout of lights you need to do on a wheel of a given size at a given MPH/rotations to get persistence of vision to kick in so it would seem continuous, right?
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@Drwave Yeah, probably. For my wheels it's approximately 12 RPM / MPH. Average cruising speed of 15 MPH gives me 180 RPM, or 3 RPS, which translates to rotating 45 degrees per frame... hmm
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@yantor3d I assume you switch Ah and A and vice versa.
Ah ratings for batteries are for a given discharge rate. If you discharge them slower than that they last longer. (And the reverse)
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@yantor3d but even switching mAh to mA, the units in the table don't make much sense, that would be a tiny current ant the lights wouldn't be on and the battery should last forever.
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@LovesTha No, i don't think I swapped A and Ah. But it's possible I took the readings wrong. The values in the mAh column are from reading P+/P- on the BMS under load using the amps mode on a multimeter. I may have had it on the wrong setting?
Either way, the battery only lasted four hours which is disappointing. I don't know enough about electronics yet to know if I could modify the circuit any to improve on that...
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@LovesTha I have an actual power meter than I need to wire up that may give me more definitive answers as to what the lights' draw is.
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@yantor3d I'm not familiar with that interface, but it would be strange to use current to indicate remaining capacity. Not impossible, just strange.
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@LovesTha Well, I am self taught in electronics, and barely know anything, so there is a non-zero chance that I am doing it wrong.
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@yantor3d you've done one thing very right: tested
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@yantor3d I've simplified this calculation to $100/hr. If I can't come anywhere close to that, it can't be a business. That price point factors in insurance, overhead (billing, shipping problems), opportunity cost (I can't be a single point of failure if I want to go on vacation, so hiring staff), and more (fraud).
It can certainly be a hobby. Open sourcing my designs is my chosen outlet for trying to make the world a better place.
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text/gemini
