I disagree. We on the “broadcast” media often underestimate how many people don’t participate.
I keep stats on the most popular Overcast link-share destination apps. What do you think tops the list?
Not Facebook or X or Instagram or Snapchat.
It’s Messages, by a MILE, then mostly other private-messaging apps! The first public-social-network app is #12 on the list, averaging only 1% as many shares as Messages.
Private messaging is FAR more popular than social media.
https://mastodon.nl/@vmachiel/113674338611670947
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@marcoarment the calling app can see what share sheet was selected? I didn’t know that
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@jason @marcoarment Didn‘t know neither and to me this is eeally a privacy concern. So Apple always talks privacy and as a user I‘d not have expected this OS feature to snitch on me!
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@irieger @jason @marcoarment you can see the chosen app, but not much more.
But yeah, I suppose “shared with PornHub dot app” carries privacy risks.
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@chucker @irieger @marcoarment well even “why did you share this with signal and that other thing with SMS” seems like a line of inquiry for LE. Metadata is important, as you point out!
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@jason @chucker @marcoarment Yep. The fact alone that I share something is all that matter, cause then comes a system dialogue!
Oh and btw. I know Americans don‘t like it but maybe I should check if @marcoarment has a proper GDPR consent screen on my test phone where I don‘t think I ever had Overcast on the account 😉🙈
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@irieger @jason @marcoarment
The fact alone that I share something is all that matter, cause then comes a system dialogue!
Well, the app has to provide a share button somehow.
a proper GDPR consent screen
The App Store page already acts as that.
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@chucker @jason @marcoarment Definitely not. It is way below so I have never seen it. Think it wasn‘t even there when I installed Overcast many years ago.
And I don‘t see the opt out button.
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@chucker @jason @marcoarment and this isn‘t about Overcast specifically, just took it as an example as the share statistics was mentioned.
Sadly european authorities still not really enforce GDPR with proper fines and ignore most violations. The should make some proper cases against large violators which would likely open some eyes.
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@irieger @chucker @jason Overcast collects no personal data by default. No names, no emails — I don't even log IP addresses anywhere on the servers.
If you choose to add an email address to your account, there's a privacy-opt-in switch on that page.
If your account was created before that went into effect, you were presented with a privacy-opt-in checkbox upon first login after that date. (This was many years ago.)
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@marcoarment @irieger @jason …and even fetching images in show notes has little opt-in buttons
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@irieger @chucker @jason The relevant section of the privacy policy is "Ads and analytics”:
"Overcast’s app collects aggregate, anonymous statistics, such as the percentage of users who use particular features, to improve the app.”
https://overcast.fm/privacy
(Note that it says I "may" store IP addresses in memory or logs. I currently don’t log them, but technically, my server processes have access to them in memory, even though I don't refer to them or save them in the server-side app code.)
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@marcoarment i think our mistake in thinking is not including "private messaging" as social media
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@marcoarment So true. Anecdotal, but in my social circle, almost no one uses facebook, X, instagram, or others like tiktok. Some have almost-dormant accounts on one of those, but many have simply never participated in "traditional" social media. All of them use messaging. Marketing people never believe me that this is real. We're in "regular" Canadian towns and cities, going about our lives.
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@marcoarment @vmachiel This comes back to Ev Williams's announcement of Mozi, wherein he observes that it's now clear that social networking and social media are now two very different things.
Social media: YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, X, Bluesky, Mastodon. Very few creators (albeit far more than in previous eras), many consumers. The overwhelming majority of people don't even think about posting.
Social networking: Messages, WhatsApp, etc. Almost everyone participates.
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@gruber one of the odd things about Periscope was that far more people wanted to broadcast — maybe one in five users was a broadcaster in the early days. It seemed to go against the trend of other social media, perhaps just because of the novelty.
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@gruber @marcoarment creators or not: people want their echochamers. Just look at twitter.. they want their lies repeated bij ‘creators’
And more intimate social media is in communication apps like you said. There is no room for a mozi I think.
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@vmachiel @marcoarment Mozi is built atop our natural social networks in Messages. I've already noticed news of friends being in certain cities on certain dates that I wouldn't otherwise have known. It's a near certainty that I'll have coffee, drinks, and meals with friends in the future because of it.
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@gruber @vmachiel @marcoarment I suspect I’m amongst the many who will get no hits. That’s fine, things need time to grow. I hope both Android and considering letting plans be “local” in a natural “might grab a meal or beer tonight” way will help achieve the goal of bringing folks together. We probably also need some geobounding. I’m close enough to several cities they’d make sense to catch someone in. Few people come to my city.
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@gruber @marcoarment @vmachiel This seems to be...false?
Putting tiktok and text social media in the same bucket connects an important divide.
I'd divide it as:
Social media: YouTube, Instagram (ish), Tik Tok
Social Networking: X, Facebook, Bluesky, Mastodon, Dreamwidth, Instagram (ish)
Social Web: Messages, text messages, email, Whatapp, Signal.
Platforms where content is hard to make are different than ones where it's very easy.
But symetric private platforms are another category.
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@mneme @marcoarment @vmachiel I disagree. “Easy to make" (tweets) vs. "hard to make” (video) is a very obvious distinction, and it certainly makes those platforms very different. No one, not one person on the planet, would argue that X and YouTube are largely similar. But X, Bluesky, Mastodon, and Threads are absolutely social media, where there are thirsty creators striving for "engagement”, and algorithms that drive it.
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@gruber @marcoarment @vmachiel I'm not here to argue about terminlogy (and, of course, "social media" was coined for particpatory media). But there are two questions which don't run in lockstep: 1. Are there thirsty creators? (always, but more on more broadcast media; Discord has thirsty creators too, no idea on Messages groups because who uses them?). 2. Are most users also contributors?
Having multiple tiers of particpation is also an important distinction--YT vids vs comments vs likes.
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@gruber @marcoarment I’ve noticed a fatigue within my friends/contacts to try new apps that solve this problem. Our previous attempts to automate physical overlap with an app either:
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@marcoarment that’s very interesting. Thanks for sharing
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@marcoarment That's true, because Overcast is the world benchmark for social sharing statistics!
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@marcoarment @vmachiel not sure if this app will succeed or not, but completely agree with Marco that “most people” don’t want to “broadcast” to a large audience of randos we don’t know. For example, I don’t mind making occasional IG posts on my private account that only includes personal friends, but I have zero interest in posting anything on Twitter or Mastodon to strangers, trying to build a following or reach people that I don’t know or follow.
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@marcoarment @vmachiel Makes sense. I am not a heavy Messages user and yet I'd say I easily send 10-100 times or more Messages than social media posts.
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@marcoarment
I think only some specific weirdos who have something they want to sway other people to be interested in actually want to be making public posts
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