Yup, I’m calling it.
bsky will prevail where Mastodon failed. The recent migration triggered the critical mass of Chaos Muppet Energy that Masto’s culture works so hard to extinguish
Like a climactic moment in a Zelda game where the accumulation of artifacts and switches pulled channels mystical energy.
I will see you over there!
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What threw it over the top for me was catching wind of a developing news event in real time—the Nazi party at MSG
with the blend of straight facts, analysis and jokes we used to get from Twitter
A range of voices broad enough there to really deliver. How exciting
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update two weeks later:
Yup. Bsky is where it’s at. It feels like Twitter used to feel, the vibes are positive, the voices are diverse, it’s easy to get the kind of content you need
Moreover, the product quality gap compared to Masto is yawning ever wider, with user-made feed algorithms, block lists, and starter packs
Whatever advantages Masto had from its early lead are exhausted, and as it relates to time and attention, I will not be betting on its success
https://hachyderm.io/@danilo/113367189576147761
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I do hope you will consider joining bluesky, as not all of my favorites have made the migration yet
If you abandoned it previously, as I did, give it another look. Journalists and scientists in particular are moving over, providing an insightful foundation for discussion and enriching the quality of feeds
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My favorite anecdote on the superiority of its product design culture:
For years Masto has avoided quote posts, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth in a conversation that goes in circles, to the detriment of making things people want
Bsky shipped a thing where you can just detach yourself from any quoting post you feel is acting in bad faith, or otherwise brings you attention you don’t want
Sorry, man, they got the juice
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Again, the juice.
Bsky is the number one free iOS app in the US right now.
Mastodon is the 184th most popular app in the social media chart. Here are some apps that rank ahead of Mastodon on that chart:
Masto’s leadership fucked the dog here.
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Reasonable people can disagree about the growth and funding strategies for a social media platform.
But Mastodon being less popular than a superfluous companion app for a game publisher no one likes is just poor stewardship.
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tired: bluesky will be enshittified by financial incentives
wired: mastodon is already enshittified by poor management
inspired: bsky is adding a million users a day and now tops the Android list as well
User-built algorithms, a chronological timeline, a great blend of safety and product features
Plus a much more diverse slate of conversation topics and contributors
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Bluesky now growing at a rate of 12-13 users per second
So why am I beating this drum?
Mastodon’s failure to capture Twitter’s collapse is instructive as a once-in-a-generation cautionary tale
Product design matters, protocol ideology is not enough, and disliking capitalism is not an exemption from economics
You will read a lot of copium about the fediverse still being viable, but it is now the smaller development target. That has consequences.
https://bcounter.nat.vg
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And I think the short version is this:
A professional team of 20 people, fully funded and paid a proper full-time wage, is an objectively more effective approach to building the future than one grumpy bottleneck guy making $60k a year and a bunch of other people looking on with wishful thinking
Disliking venture capital is NOT ENOUGH. You have to figure out a different model that still can fund enough deep, sustained, collaborative work to build a thing people want
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This is the mastodon energy in a nutshell, yup
“Love this crummy platform or get lost” is exactly how this happened
The final nail in the coffin here will be the culture.
https://freeradical.zone/@alltherum/113488808057395557
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But I think the thing that REALLY sticks in my craw is:
and
are mutually incompatible positions. If the place is really that bad it must be destroyed. And the way you do that is by displacing it in its niche
Building the Twitter killer is a moral imperative.
Instead the dominant Masto vibe is “Elon is terrible therefore let’s build a culturally marginal alternative with bad financials”
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This is kind of a microcosm of Masto Brain:
Bluesky has optimized safety and social features first ahead of client performance—eg reply gating, blocks that completely deny trolls access to your post’s audience, starter packs to bootstrap your social graph
while deferring client performance
An exercise for the reader to project whether Masto successfully applies these platform fundamentals before Bluesky invests in the nuts and bolts of client performance
https://toot.cafe/@slightlyoff/113492377287939587
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“I cannot BELIEVE Oprah is recommending Twitter on her show. It’s a monolithic ruby application that relies a on a SINGLE MySQL database. why isn’t she talking about RSS and showing people how an XML feed is structured”
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@danilo Same. Mastodon really competing only on ideology now and not product quality.
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@danhon oooooooof
This is such an economical way to put it, and so damning
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@danilo @danhon Pragmatism has its benefits
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@danhon @danilo
Oddly I still find bsky too noisy and generally not great for my mental health (i often feel overwhelmed), and I find myself having to log off.
Bsky is the obvious winner on user safety with the excellent tools it has for blocking and muting.
I think that fediverse isn't going anywhere, even though it may not win. I do hope that it collects some better stewards for it than the mastodon folks...
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@michaelcoyote @danhon yeah at this point the optimistic take on Fediverse is “someone will find a way to route around the poor mastodon leadership”
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@danilo @danhon
I mean, I don't see Fedivers going anywhere. It's been around for a while and there's enough weirdos here who like it, for it to continue on.
That said I really do want better moderation and a better small server admin experience.
To the latter I see a lot of servers that aren't mastodon doing cool things, specifically the *-key instances.
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@danilo @danhon
I think what I really want is an experience that is a little bit more than a group chat. Kinda like a group chat plus and bsky isn't going to give me that. Mastodon probably won't either but it's closer. Misskey or one of those might.
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@danilo @danhon
Honestly my "optimistic take" on Fediverse is that it's possible to make space for people who aren't comfortable spending their time on larger networks.
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@michaelcoyote @danilo yeah, I see stasis and it being another space.
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@danhon @danilo
I don't know.. Maybe? I do see other folks show up here. Certainly not as many as bluesky but some folks do show up. Mostly older people. There's also a lot of older trans folks and shitposters but they've been here..
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@danhon@mastohon.com @danilo I agree with what you're both saying, and I use and like bsky. But I am wary of the money running out over there.
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@crabmusket @danilo hopefully the hat thing will pay off
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@danhon @danilo I think I'm OOTL, what's the hat thing?
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@danilo it might be 1000x better, but I'm never ever going to join VC owned social media again, ever
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@danilo this comes at a time when people are highlighting the ego driven development of mastodon
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@gregdavis @danilo I wonder how many employees are watching Fedi and doing what Gargron won't.
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@danilo The more the merrier. I hope Bluesky succeeds alongside a bunch of other platforms, and that we get bridges working between them so that everyone can talk to everyone, and none of us will be dependent on a single billionaire-owned simalacrum of a public square.
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@danilo you're not wrong.
That said, I see a lot more people on bsky getting very hung up on mastodon, than the other way around.
As an aside, "screwed the pooch" is how I would typically phrase that particular sentiment.
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@danilo is the (huge) beef you're having about the official app, or about the service? Just curious.
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@danilo I mean the iOS App.
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@danilo I just think that having a crypto enshittifier on the board is gonna end badly. Idk how we reconcile that with Masto, I get the complaints.
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@danilo But it definitely worries me that people suggest Bluesky has an escape hatch when it does not. Someone drew "escape hatch here" on a postit note and left that in a blank spot in the atproto spec. To actually replicate bluesky wouldn't just be a matter of having the Capex, there is engine engineering precedent for the process.
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@Elucidating definitely one of those worry-about-it-tomorrow things for me, now that we can confirm mastodon's dead-end trajectory
For the time being, just grateful to have a working real time consensus and news breaking mechanism again
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@danilo @Elucidating I know they’re busy but I really hope the fix the did:plc thing soon, just so we can stop having to talk about the caveat.
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@Elucidating @danilo
Yeah, the crypto guy with the Bannon ties is enough to give me strong "Lucy holding the football" vibes.
I'm willing to put up with a less addictive environment to not go down that road again.
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@danilo
I think maintaining a presence on both platforms is healthy; where one puts their primary efforts depends on what you're prioritizing.
For me fedi is the primary, but I'm happy to treat BlueSky as a secondary and remain open-ended about whether it will "end badly" or whether they manage to stay true to their commitment to build a public benefit organization.
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@danilo
I don't think we need adversarial rhetoric about either project at this point - they can be friends :).
At the same time, we should jointly help folks get off X and promote the options that make sense to us.
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@danilo yep. The common person sure is a dumbass
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@danilo ask America how it knows
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@danilo It's not clear to me what you're hoping to accomplish with this, anymore
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@jenniferplusplus a eulogy, mostly
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@danilo If there's anything to eulogize, it's a future that didn't happen. Mastodon didn't die. It's here right now, and that dissonance is giving weirdly antagonistic energy.
edit: I don't know why this post is getting attention. But, for the record: Danilo is right. I just think this anger and blame is being directed to the wrong audience. Overwhelmingly, his followers (of which I am one), were not the cause of the problem he identified.
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@jenniferplusplus oh the antagonism is REAL:
I think it’s an enormous fuckup and I openly blame the deeply homogenous, Torvalds-y culture and the project leadership
At core I believed in the premise completely and I loathe the coalition of dipshits who absolutely derailed this into stagnation. It did not have to go this way
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@danilo So, the thing is, not everyone has given up on that promising future. It's fine to leave, but maybe don't smash up the place on the way out, if that future is still something you want.
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@jenniferplusplus what I want is a real-time consensus and news-breaking engine; I have determined that Mastodon will not meet this need, and the goal is best served by making the case to what reach I have to try the other thing, maximizing the chance of that goal being met
If mastodon is really so brittle that 2k audience reach and a sharp tut-tutting can really "smash it up," as you say, I am understating my own case dramatically!
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@danilo "mastodon" for virtually any definition of that word, is going to go on without you and not even notice. But you're not talking to "mastodon" here. You're talking to those 2k.
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@jenniferplusplus I acknowledge the scolding
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@danilo @jenniferplusplus it's like they say, "whenever anyone criticizes any aspect of the mastodon-flavored fediverse, they can expect a flood of pushback".
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@dave @danilo Just so there's no ambiguity: I agree with Danilo's analysis and conclusion. He seems to be angry, and I share that anger.
This conversation is me trying to let him know that I think he's directing that anger in a really counterproductive way.
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@jenniferplusplus @dave @danilo assuming it's possible to modify the dynamics that undergird the technical shortfalls and make up the culture, how's it counterproductive to perpetuate a discourse that seeks to create the conditions for change?
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@oscarjiminy @jenniferplusplus @dave @danilo
Have you heard the term “preaching to the choir“?
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@mcepl @jenniferplusplus @dave @danilo mastodon's a monolith huh?
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@jenniferplusplus @dave @danilo thanks for the interesting conversation. I am rather enjoying Mastodon, and hopefully there is space for more than one microblogging platform. I am also reducing my diet of social media, so a less hectic pace is not necessarily a bug for me. I acknowledge that different people will look for different things.
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@jenniferplusplus @dave @danilo The critic about Mastodons tech and leadership are directed at the wrong audience.
But the complaint about the culture here is where it belongs: shouted out to the general public.
The toxic hatred for anything that's not the fediverse (or some special flair of fediverse even) of some here is astounding.
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@jenniferplusplus@hachyderm.io @danilo@hachyderm.io
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@danilo @jenniferplusplus
So why are you here?
Your opinions are opinions, I don't think they're particularly valid but I wonder why you post so much about it.
I'm not going to wax lyrical about the Fediverse, or the multiplicity of platforms but when it comes down to it no single user can tell the difference in how many other users there are on any social platform once it gains traction. Regardless of network.
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@danilo Mastodon is just not that user hostile, dude.
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@danilo peddle AI elsewhere
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@danilo what’s you’re blue sky name thing?
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