Wtf #fedora .. since when is this a thing ?
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@krisbuytaert
yea I've seen this since 2017 I think
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@krisbuytaert
you can turn that off
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@selea I've been on Fedora since before it was Fedora ..never seen this at boot in well 20+ years , scared the fsck out of me this morning , ..
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@krisbuytaert
Oh, that's very interesting!
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@krisbuytaert dnf system-upgrade? 2015. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/upgrading-fedora-offline/
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@nemobis @krisbuytaert it's not that plugin. That's for entire system upgrades.
The screenshot can happen if you select the tick box for Fedora to install updates when you shutdown or reboot, managed via the GNOME Software app/PackageKit integrated with dnf.
Screen might also appear if it's doing something like a firmware update.
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@krisbuytaert quite some time. In a world where Linux can live-patch it's own kernel, this seems quite glaring to me. Given that live-patch is one of those things you end up paying money to vendors for, my cynical side thinks this might be deliberate.
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@tealeg @krisbuytaert yessss. you're right. paypal me $30 and i'll give you the sekrit code for live updates. shh, don't tell anyone.
nah, keep your $30 and run dnf update. if you're happy with the risk of anything that crashes the terminal or desktop you run it in killing the update.
(if you absolutely must update online, it's much safer to do it from a VT or a tmux/screen session than just directly in a desktop).
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@adamw @krisbuytaert .. yeah, but fedora isn't doing kpatch, even then, right?.
Sorry, didn't mean to make accusations. I saw this discussion from the inside at Canonical - kpatch seems to be a feature that's only required on HA server environments, and those customers are happy to pay for it.
I still don't quite get why Fedora defaults to getting people to reboot for updates.
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@tealeg @adamw @krisbuytaert to make sure said update is applied fully and correctly. If you're live updating that can cause weird bugs if a underlying library is also updated but the old version remains in use in RAM, that's annoying to troubleshoot. That's a thing on any distro, Ubuntu included
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@sebastiaanfranken @adamw @krisbuytaert - yes, it's just that historically the norm seems to have been to inform the user or trust them to understand that. I guess this is all part of being "usable" for non-engineers. It just feels weird to an old-timer.
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@tealeg @adamw @krisbuytaert I can get that. I've been using Fedora since about 2006 so I consider myself a old-timer as well, the thing I like about Fedora is how it makes sure you keep up with the times (old man, jk). This was a fine example for me of that, I'd been doing "dnf upgrade" for years, and when this was introduced it took me a while to get my head around it, but now I wouldn't want it any other way and I find myself cringing at distros that don't have something like it..
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@sebastiaanfranken @tealeg @adamw thats the thing.. I`m used to dnf upgrade frequently ... so really surprised this suddenly popped up on my laptop ... within 30 minutes before I had to do a presentation :) Still figuring out how to disable it :)
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@krisbuytaert @tealeg @adamw If you're using Workstation, you can't. Though a dnf upgrade from the CLI still works as you're used to. GNOME Software auto downloads updates in the background, yuo can disabled that from the GNOME Software settings. If there are updates downloaded and you shutdown or reboot, they'l install (as you've found out). That you can disable, see GNOME Software settings (auto download updates, turn that off)
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@sebastiaanfranken @tealeg @adamw I`m typically on Mate, but yesteday I switched to Gnome for one test for 5 minutes.... that triggered this .. I think I got it disabled now :)
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@krisbuytaert @tealeg @adamw even in other DEs its highly recommend to use offline-upgrade instead of upgrade with dnf
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@sebastiaanfranken @adamw @krisbuytaert FWIW, #OpenBSD will, by default, forcibly restart when you do a sysupgrade, but this is a more major operation than just getting regular software updates.
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@tealeg GNOME does inform you, though it's possible to miss it. in default config it will download updates in the background, and when you shut down or reboot, there's a checkbox labelled something like 'install pending updates' that is checked by default. unless you uncheck it, an offline update will happen. I'm not actually sure about exactly how it works in KDE, I don't run it myself.
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@tealeg for GNOME Software in Preferences you can change from "Automatic" to "Manual" to disable the automatic update download behaviour. or in dconf-editor org.gnome.software you can entirely disable update/upgrade handling, if you like.
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@adamw @tealeg You can do the same in Plasma Discover, but you can also reconfigure Discover to do online updates too. We default to offline updates because they are much more reliable, though.
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@tealeg ah, sorry, I misunderstood. yes, Fedora doesn't do kpatch. I don't know how RH decides what to have the kernel folks it pays for work on, tbh - I'm not in that management chain. I think providing kpatch updates is a chunk of work that, even for RHEL, is only done for significant CVEs. RH definitely wouldn't stop anyone else working on kpatch updates for Fedora if they wanted to, though. so far AFAIK nobody's suggested it.
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@tealeg @krisbuytaert btw, it's not quite the case that "Fedora defaults to getting people to reboot for upgrades". Fedora Workstation and KDE do. Other desktops don't. Non-desktop flavors don't exactly have a default; you just get dnf, and you can use that to update offline or online as you prefer.
The switches for GNOME and KDE were specifically decided by those desktop teams. For GNOME there was a Feature (what we used to call Changes): https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OfflineSystemUpdates
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@krisbuytaert Standard Gnome way of applying updates for several releases.
The notion is that it is safer to apply updates when as many services as possible are disabled. It's the approximate equivalent of fiddling with init to boot to a command line for updating pre-SystemD.
Remember that Red Hat's interest in Gnome is as a desktop for corporate and institutional use.
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@krisbuytaert It uses systemd to do the updates while that os is not running. Do dnf update yourself instead. Safer actually.
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