Ancestors

Written by Adam Katz on 2024-10-18 at 00:26

Perhaps a naive question, but why do news organizations like @npr refer to Gaza as Hamas and Lebanon as Hezbollah? I don't see them referring to Israel as Likud (the ruling party chaired by Benjamin Netenyahu).

I worry that most Americans don't understand that all three of these groups have similar legitimacy to their ruling their nations, instead assuming they're solely terrorist factions.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from adamhotep@infosec.exchange

Written by Todd Horowitz on 2024-10-18 at 15:17

@adamhotep @npr That is not correct. They do not have similar legitimacy. Hezbollah in particular is simply one armed faction, and does not correspond to the Lebanese government. Hamas does effectively govern Gaza, but it existed as a terrorist group long before it took over Gaza. It would be like referring to the Sinaloa Cartel as "Mexico".

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from toddhorowitz@fediscience.org

Toot

Written by Serge from Babka on 2024-10-18 at 15:29

@toddhorowitz

Right. A little more detail. Hezbollah is not an arm of the Lebanese government, but is instead a terrorist organization that operates a part of Lebanon. In fact the UN was supposed to be containing Hezbollah and preventing them from acting in the region through peacekeepers, but they've failed to actually provide any enforcement, and there's even evidence that they've been assisting Hezbollah.

Hezbollah and Hamas are both effectively proxies of the Iranian government, which provides them both with support through money, weapons, and Iranian training. Many higher ups in both organizations are not local, but are instead remote, often in Iran itself.

Both organizations, especially Hamas are more akin to ISIS, and other governments in the region are concerned about their activity, which is why they signed the Abraham Accords with Israel, specifically so they could share intelligence about Iran and its proxies.

[#]Israel #Hamas #Lebanon #UN #Hezbollah

@adamhotep @npr

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from serge@babka.social

Descendants

Written by Personne on 2024-10-18 at 15:54

@serge @toddhorowitz @adamhotep @npr

Israel is doing exactly what the USA needs them to do: act as a proxy to secure energy resources in the region and keep competing powers (i.e.; Iran) in check.

Egypt and Saudi Arabia (exemplary democracies) concur to the same goal, with direct lines of partnership, funding and military equipment provided by the USA; it's not exclusive to Israel.

How was that in any way racist? Please elaborate.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from per_sonne@ciberlandia.pt

Written by Adam Katz on 2024-10-18 at 16:04

@serge @toddhorowitz

Okay, that helps. I know of the Iranian connections, their terrorist origins and tendencies, and how Hamas gutted the democratic system once it was elected. I looked up Hezbollah. They hold 15 of the 128 seats in the Parliament of Lebanon and were noted as "the most powerful single political movement in Lebanon" in 2008 (when it had 14 seats).

Allegiances and politics aside, these groups do represent people and are responsible for their well being. This is so rarely discussed in the media. We never see news of discussions with other governments (or other parties within Lebanon).

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from adamhotep@infosec.exchange

Written by Serge from Babka on 2024-10-18 at 16:20

@adamhotep

So much of the complexities of the situation are not discussed in English speaking media, but the are exceptions to that, which I'll get to in a moment.

The problem with the exceptions is that they're largely speaking to an audience that already knows the situation. They don't directly express the background each time; they largely report the news, ie the newest developments.

I largely consume Israeli media for the background, and of course Israeli media has the same sort of bias that, eg American media does when talking about an issue. I listen to various podcasts, read online newspapers, etc.

I also listen to the Israelis in my life who will patiently explain the situation.

Sadly, Wikipedia has been engaging in a multi-year process to rewrite all the Jewish and especially Israeli related articles. You can see this in the history, they're making the articles more anti-Israel and anti-Zionist as well.

1/2

@toddhorowitz

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from serge@babka.social

Written by Serge from Babka on 2024-10-18 at 16:24

@adamhotep

If you want the history from the other side, of course Wikipedia and newspapers like Al Jazeera will provide it. As an example, they claim that Israeli invaded Lebanon in 1982 for no reason, thus Hezbollah was created in response. They don't mention the PLO forces in Lebanon, or the support of the PLO in Lebanon at the time.

It should be noted that the PLO of the 1980s and the PLO of today are quite different. At the time, the PLO was actively engaging in terrorism worldwide and had as its stated mission the murder or expulsion of all Jews in the levant. This is something that has been conveniently modified in Wikipedia, but is quite clear in records from the time as well as their mission statement from the time.

2/2

@toddhorowitz

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from serge@babka.social