I donβt usually do this kind of evangelism, but if youβre looking for a reason to try #XMPP on #GlobalSwitchDay, nowβs the perfect time: #Conversations_im is currently free on Google Play!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.siacs.conversations
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@daniel
It's always free on f-droid :-)
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@daniel no, #xmpp not really. often does not work with Firewalls. there are a lot of free alternatives now that just work,
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@kielkontrovers @daniel Depends on tge server / client and their capabilities. My own setup works great even with hotel and airport Hotspots.
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@kielkontrovers that's incorrect. On a properly configured server like conversations.im it will fall back to direct TLS on port 443 and has no problem bypassing even restrictive firewalls at airports or hotels.
Use what ever instant messaging solution you want though. I'm just offering a tool.
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@daniel exactly. I always had problems. Never worked for me
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@kielkontrovers @daniel
Only once I had such a problem, in a British train. One of my #Jabber accounts did not work (ports 5222/5223), the other one did just work (ports 5222/443).
Choose a server that uses 443 for direct TLS (or configure your own in such a way) and everything works perfectly fine.
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@daniel Or use Matrix Synapse π
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@frdl synapse nation grade or the slow one?
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@daniel @frdl I've never used Nation-Scale Matrix Synapse myself. So probably the slow version π But if you want WhatsApp functionality and more, then that's the tool of choice for me. Especially in combination with Jitsi.
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@frdl I'm happy that #Matrix works for you. From a developer POV the dominance of Element (the company) is a huge liability and I prefer a standardization organization where I can actively participate without paying millions of dollars in member fees.
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@daniel @frdl I totally understand that!
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@daniel
I think I would prefer #XMPP, but according to this article, #Signal is more secure
https://soatok.blog/2024/08/04/against-xmppomemo/
Are there changes since then that we should know of?
Great work!
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@Rhababerbarbar You shouldn't believe everything some online trolls write on their blogs :neocat_facepalm:
Here is for example a reasonable response: https://www.moparisthebest.com/against-silos-signal/ but Soatok seems to delete comments that refute their "findings" so you will not read anything more balanced than "Signal is the best" on their website.
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@Rhababerbarbar @daniel
Security can mean different things. Very often it means confidentiality, integrity and availability. Signal is probably very good at first two, but might fail on the third, if Jeff B or DJT decide to shutdown. It is hard to shutdown federated systems. Or to seize it.
Federated systems help to guarantee our #digitalSovereignty and our #freedom. A centralised US service run in the Amazon cloud is not helpful towards those goals.
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@debacle @daniel
Yes absolutely true
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@daniel who'd pay for an XMPP client
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@ity Plenty of people do https://gultsch.social/@daniel/113623532676485123
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@ity @daniel I do
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@daniel is it US based at all?
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@r3t3ch @daniel it can be if you sign up on a US based server
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@badrihippo How about the home offices? I'm trying to avoid any US based tech.
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@r3t3ch oh, if you want to avoid the US you can choose a server outside the US. It's federated, same as Mastodon ποΈ
I'm part of the group administering durare.org, an XMPP server managed from India (but currently hosted by Hetzner, a German company) if you're interested in getting an invite there. Or is there any other region in particular you're looking for?
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@r3t3ch looks like mailbox.org (one of the email providers listed in the https://european-alternatives.eu link you shared) offers XMPP hosting too, although I'm not sure if it supports all the recommended features. There are other hosts available, either standalone or as a bundle like https://disroot.org or you can selfhost of course! Wait, let me try to dig up a list of recommended providers
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@badrihippo You really don't have to do the work for me. I truly appreciate it though.
I've been looking at skred for using with friends and family. Recommended it to people I know are now on "lists" here and need as much safety as they can get.
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@r3t3ch wow, I hadn't heard of skred before and it looks interesting. Especially the p2p part. I'll have to look into how it works a bit more; I'm usually sceptical of sjngle-entity-developed setvices (as opposed to standards-based ones) but this could be decentralised enough.
A warning with XMPP, how (much) metadata is stored on the server end depends on server policy so you should choose accordingly. That said, since there are so many XMPP servers any specific one is unlikely to be a target!
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@badrihippo I'm trying to help people as much as I can. So I keep looking and reading. I found it via that EU alternatives page. One thing I also like is it's French based. They have the most stringent privacy laws and enforcement I can find. If the US wants to peek at what they have, it's just a flat out no immediately. It's also completely anonymous. Much like Mulvad for vpn.
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@r3t3ch I didn't know that about French law. That's useful to know!
By the way that reminds me, there's a French initiative called Framasoft with a similar ethos to Disroot, but they develop software as well (including Fediverse compatible ones)
https://framasoft.org
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@badrihippo Oh cool.
I've been looking for a host to move my website. It's nothing big, but you know, US. That lead me to mail servers too. I found these guys: https://migadu.com
They're from Sweden. They won't keep their servers there because of relatively recent agreements with the US. The about page is very informative and leg me to a few rabbitholes. I just assumed... Germany, Norway, Finland are my descending choices at this stage. But knowledge changes that easily.
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@r3t3ch migadu looks very cool; I may decide to use them for email hosting on my own domain. I found mention of French servers only in passing on the pros and cons pageβif that's where you saw it to, it must have been quite a rabbithole you were in! ποΈ
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@badrihippo Oh, I had no idea, that's cool. India/Germany works for me. I'm guessing it does not matter where a message originates.
And this is e2e as well?
Thank you, I appreciate the kindness.
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@r3t3ch yeah, it doesn't matter but of course if your contact uses a US-based server your messages to them will have to go through that server ποΈ
It supports E2EE, but some clients start unencrypted by default and require you to enable encryption. I believe Monocles has E2EE on by default and Conversations probably does too but just check once if you use it (there's a lock icon on top of the chat to toggle)
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@badrihippo I've been reading disroot's info in the meantime. How have I lived this long and not heard about this? Amazing. Truly impressed by the ethos, the efforts, and the end results. Humanity truly has moments that make you think we may actually be ok if we try.
Thank you for the link and turning me onto this. I really appreciate this.
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@r3t3ch haha, yes! I've been using Disroot for so long I sometimes forget how special it and similar initiatives are π οΈ
We're trying something similar with Durare too, though at a smaller scale (and only focused on messaging for now)
Let me know if you pick some server and want me to help vet it. I did offer to help people get onto XMPP for #GlobalSwitchDay so this is something I signed up for ποΈ
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@badrihippo I think I'm going to apply to get disroot. I'd like to get rid of a my Mega account and would rather support this team if I'm to pay for a service.
Thank you for all the help.
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@r3t3ch awesome! Glad I could help ποΈ
By the way, they're also on the Fediverse @disroot. I'm sure #Framasoft is on here too
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@r3t3ch correction: seems like the moved to @disroot
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@badrihippo framasoft is great too. Thank you. That search kitten is a fantastic resource.
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@r3t3ch what search kitten? ποΈ
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