Reading the NATO report on software engineering that came out of the 1968 conference where the term "software crisis" was coined. (It's at https://www.scrummanager.com/files/nato1968e.pdf if you want to read it too.)
Currently on page 11. ELEVEN. (Out of 200+.) It says right here: "The need for feedback was stressed many times."
We knew. Have always known. Feedback is the key to everything. Any process that intentionally delays feedback is going to run into problems. We took such a wrong turn in the 1990s. Ugh.
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Now reading Randell's 1979 comments on the 1968 report (https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/800091.802915). He quotes J.W. Smith:
"I'm still bemused by the way they attempt to build software... They begin with planning specification, go through functional specifications, implementation specifications, etc., etc. If you look down the PERT-chart you discover that all the nodes on it up until the last one produce nothing but paper. It is unfortunately true that people confuse the menu with the meal."
(edited for brevity)
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"Don't confuse the menu with the meal" is my new favorite phrase.
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Back to the 1968 report. SO MANY GOOD QUOTES. Gonna thread a few of my favs.
"Today we tend to go on for years, with tremendous investments to find that the system, which was not well understood to start with, does not work as anticipated. We build systems like the Wright brothers built airplanes — build the whole thing, push it off the cliff, let it crash, and start over again." -- Graham
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"I know of one organisation that attempts to apply time and motion standards to the output of programmers. They judge a programmer by the amount of code he produces. This is guaranteed to produce insipid code — code which does the right thing but which is twice as long as necessary." -- McClure
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“There are two classes of system designers. The first, if given five problems will solve them one at a time. The second will come back and announce that these aren’t the real problems, and will eventually propose a solution to the single problem which underlies the original five. This is the ‘system type’ who is great during the initial stages of a design project. However, you had better get rid of him after the first six months if you want to get a working system.” — Kinslow
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I'll just stop here. The entire paper is AMAZING. You can find a copy here: http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/brian.randell/NATO/nato1968.PDF
Seriously, I wish I'd read this report earlier. So many of the pain points that the participants discuss will feel familiar to anyone in software. Technology has changed. People have not. We have some better answers now than we did then. But we still have the same pressures, and illusions, that led to the original declaration of a "crisis."
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Oh! One more. Last one, I swear:
"As one single example of such a source of ideas I would like to mention: Christopher Alexander: Notes on the Synthesis of Form (Harvard Univ. Press, 1964)" -- Naur.
Yup, that's right. The connection between Alexander's work on architecture and software was made as early as 1968. 😮
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OK OK this one is the last one. I think I have found the earliest use of the notion of a walking skeleton. Again, this is 1968.
"Begin with skeletal coding: Rather than aiming at finished code, the 46 first coding steps should be aimed at exploring interfaces, sizes of critical modules, complexity, and adequacy of the modules... The contributions of this step should be insight and experience, with the aim of exploring feasibility." -- David
(edited for brevity)
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@testobsessed Would you say that this crisis is still ongoing? When I was working on my thesis, about 15 years ago, my TA said it was. When I entered the industry and later was able to look left and right, it definitely still looked like it to me. Having moved companies a few times now, I can see a few glimmers of hope, but my view is very limited. Would you mind sharing your take and experience on it?
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@georgberky Jerry Weinberg wrote: "It may look like a crisis, but it’s only the end of an illusion." (Secrets of Consulting)
In that spirit, I don't think there ever was a crisis. Not really. Rather, I think a lot of folks held tight to illusions. They still do.
So. 2 big questions:
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@testobsessed Thank you 🙏🏻. People seem to cling to them when disillusionment forces change upon them that is unpleasant 🤔. Was "we can plan software development start to finish line" one of them? Or maybe even "software has a finish line"? I'm beginning to strongly doubt the latter.
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@testobsessed When you talk about the changes in the 1990, is that the move towards strong architecting, upfront design, splitting IT departments into pieces like ops, devs, analysts and so on? That was still the situation in the first two companies I've worked for. It also seems to have cut off the wings of many moves towards agility/feedback driven development with cross-functional teams. Many of those words seem burnt now 😔.
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@georgberky Mostly I was thinking about the separation of dev & test. In the 60s & 70s feedback cycles were long (wheee punchcards!). But devs were expected to test (their code, others code). It was part of the job. I entered the industry in 1988 just in time for the rise of "independent QA" and the notion that letting devs test was putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. Terrible wrong turn. But yes, dividing things along any functional lines without emphasizing collaboration will fail.
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@testobsessed David who?
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@gdinwiddie that was how the quote was credited in the paper. Link is in the thread.
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@testobsessed
I’ll check it when I’m on my computer.
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@gdinwiddie @testobsessed
Looks like it was Dr. E.E. David, Jr., Bell Telephone Laboratories Inc
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@testobsessed Just skimmed it and wow, thanks, I see why you can't stop quoting!
Instafollow btw 😄 and thanks to the boosters* too!
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@testobsessed I think my first exposure to Alexander was in the first Whole Earth Catalog (1968). On the same page as Thompsons's On Growth and Form. A very important page in my life as a systems designer
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@bbelton Oh my word that is so cool! Thank you!
(Also: $6.95 post paid. Such a bargain! Yes, I know that's $63 today, and in a year when my Dad made ~$5000/year. So not cheap. But still fun to see.)
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@testobsessed All online now at https://wholeearth.info
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@bbelton Oh dang! I didn't know. That is amazing. Thank you!
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@testobsessed ooh, I definitely know that guy
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@aburka @testobsessed yea, it's me. Going to have a rethink of my life now....
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@arichtman @aburka So I should probably have injected my opinion on that quote. I disagree with the author. If I'm hiring and have just the 2 candidates, I'll take the second type over the first...but what I really want is a 3rd type who will start like the first, then see the pattern (rule of 3) and only then refactor to solve the real single underlying problem. I've seen the code bases produced by the 1st approach with no opportunity for extracting the common logic, and...well...shudder.
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@testobsessed @arichtman yeah the switch hitter here can be the mvp
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@aburka @testobsessed "...so you're saying there's a chance?"
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@testobsessed I read this and immediately thought, "Inside me are two wolves...."
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@testobsessed hah. I love that one. So true
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@testobsessed ICYMI: “-2000 lines of code”
https://www.folklore.org/Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.html
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@raganwald oh thank you! I'd totally forgotten that story and wouldn't have been able to find it if I remembered it. So good.
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@testobsessed ... oh my gods.
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@testobsessed and like the Wright Brothers, not in public ;-)
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@testobsessed I had an engineer tell an exec “You can’t ride the ponies in the picture.” (While being shown a mockup of a new app. Exec was ready to start selling it.)
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@testobsessed that's a variation of "the map is not the territory"
http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/MapIsNotTheTerritory
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@testobsessed I love software engineering papers from the 1970s, they were often so plain spoken and grounded. (might be survivorship bias, but the difference with what I had to read in the 90s is stark).
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@testobsessed I've never believed it's possible to get software of any appreciable complexity right in a single pass. I don't believe any team's ever done it. Reality always wins that debate 🙂
What I've observed when teams do "Waterfall" is frantically iterative "acceptance testing" or "stabilisation" phases before release, and many, many "bug fixes" that are actually change requests after release. Waterfall development is really iterative development, but the first iteration's reeeeally long.
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@testobsessed thank you for the thread.
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@testobsessed great report. Definitely worth reading. And indeed, lots of things we’re still struggling with
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@testobsessed That whole report is a goldmine of hard-won wisdom, and it's shocking how much software development occurs nowadays in complete ignorance of that wisdom.
I have a paper copy -- it was my dad's. It comes with a postcard enclosed: "We are pleased to send you herewith copies of the proceedings of the Conference on Software Engineering. The reproduction method used has made it possible to distribute the proceedings free of charge. It is the intention of the Science Committee to make the proceedings available to all persons interested in software engineering. If you or your colleagues need additional copies for such further distribution, please complete and return the attached post-card." with a return address at "NATO, Brussels, Belgium".
Those people really wanted to make the world of software a better place: their optimism is kind of inspiring, but also kind of throws into sharp relief the very different social contract of much of today's software development.
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@testobsessed The R.W. Bemer "Checklist" paper alone should be required annual reading for all software developers and their managers. (Inevitably some parts of it are from a world that no longer exists, but an astonishing amount of it is not, and is a royal road to a lot of learning that many organisations learned the hard way or not at all.)
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@TalesFromTheArmchair oh how wonderful! what a treasure!
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@testobsessed Dad didn't talk about his work very much -- not least because parts of it were under the Official Secrets Act -- and I only found this among his things after he'd died. I don't think he was at the 1968 conference, but looking through the list of participants, he must have known and worked with Alick Glennie, who was.
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@TalesFromTheArmchair It's still such a treasure even if he didn't receive it because he was there. In fact, I'd say it's even more of a treasure because, as you said, it points to the desire of the group to make the world a better place by sharing insights as widely as possible. I'm super grateful to you for sharing that. Otherwise I'd have had no idea.
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@testobsessed very @daedalus areas
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@jpm @testobsessed ooh it so is. Thanks!
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text/gemini
