Ancestors

Toot

Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 21:20

A small, friendly reminder:

Injectable hormones are suspended in castor oil. Castor oil is really good at keeping those hormones dissolved.

But castor oil goes rancid in 1-2 years. Faster if you don't keep it in a dark place. And rancid castor oil doesn't work properly, and can even hurt you.

So, please keep an eye on the expiration date of any vial of hormones you have or get, and discard anything more than two years past it's date of manufacture.

Because you can't tell if castor oil has gone rancid by sight. Only smell or texture.

And you can't smell or feel it in a sealed vial.

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Descendants

Written by Shannon McKinnion on 2025-01-22 at 21:28

@Impossible_PhD - If I remember

Estradiol valerate uses castor oil, (sometimes sesame oil)

Estradiol cypionate uses cottonseed oil.

That being said, they both have roughly 12-24 months and really like a cool dark place.

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 21:43

@shannon_mck I was pretty sure cyp used castor oil. Almost all Injectables do.

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Written by Shannon McKinnion on 2025-01-22 at 22:07

@Impossible_PhD - I doublechecked the formulary, and I can't find castor oil in cyp. (and one of the reasons I was given for why cyp takes longer to break down is because it's not castor).

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 22:16

@shannon_mck mmmm from the data sheets I can find, cottonseed oil goes rancid faster that castor, not slower. Max tested life before rancidity was just under 650 days, from the Science Direct source I found.

I'd love a source that says otherwise.

EDIT: Someone found information showing otherwise. Please disregard this!

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Written by Raeve :spinnycat_enby: :neocat_amogus: on 2025-01-22 at 22:20

@Impossible_PhD@hachyderm.io @shannon_mck@chaosfem.tw can't even be sure that's an issue with how low-concentration cypionate is anyway, difficult to build a reserve when one only gets maybe a single extra dose from a vial

am curious about diy suppliers who just specify 'mct' though

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 22:36

@raeve @shannon_mck the issue isn't the concentration, it's the carrier oil going rancid. Once chemical compounds change, all sort of things go up in the air, and the needle moves from "safe" to "not safe."

Note: this doesn't mean "unsafe." it's that nebulous, risky never-never land.

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Written by Raeve :spinnycat_enby: :neocat_amogus: on 2025-01-22 at 22:38

@Impossible_PhD@hachyderm.io @shannon_mck@chaosfem.tw yeah I'm just speaking to whether a vial of US cypionate could even reach that point, as the doses-per-vial doesn't have any excess

... which is largely why I switched to valerate and the expiration actually becomes a concern ​:ablobcatcoffee:​

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 22:49

@raeve @shannon_mck update: someone elsewhere found safety data that says otherwise, so please disregard what I Siad about cottonseed oil!

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Written by Shannon McKinnion on 2025-01-22 at 22:27

@Impossible_PhD - So would I. I've been using the 12-24 month as a baseline for my stockpile, but if it's lower, I'm going to want to refigure out things.

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 22:40

@shannon_mck I can't find a definitive statement on Pfizer EC. This is their MSDS, and it doesn't address it.

Mind checking the expiry on your vials? The suggestions I've been able to find (poor source strength) says they dare them for 6-12 months from manufacture (and, if so, the shorter shelf life would explain why there seem to be shortages of EC so much more often than EV).

https://pfe-pfizercom-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/products/material_safety_data/estradiol_cypionate_inj_6-June-2019.pdf

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Written by Shannon McKinnion on 2025-01-22 at 22:41

@Impossible_PhD - I will do that! (I'm in the lab right now, saying Very Bad Words to ArcGIS)

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Written by Shannon McKinnion on 2025-01-23 at 00:36

@Impossible_PhD - So I checked. (because I said I would)

Of the six vials of cyp I have (5 mg/ml, inject 0.5ml a week), Two expire 11/2027 and four expire 6/2029

The two vials of val I got (my doctor wanted me to have backups in case the cyp got in short supply again, 100 mg/ml, inject 1 ml a week), both expire 7/2026.

So it seems like, provided storage is good, it makes more sense to use the val first and the cyp second. :)

Now, if I could get my hands on more progesterone.... :)

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Written by jiub :v_enby: :v_trans: :v_est: on 2025-01-22 at 21:31

@Impossible_PhD@hachyderm.io is there any reasonable way to preserve it for longer?

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 21:43

@jiub No. This is just how it works.

All things decompose with time.

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Written by Cameron 💙🏳️‍⚧️🦌 on 2025-01-22 at 22:27

@Impossible_PhD carrier oils can be cottonseed, castor, or MCT (palm) oil. Is not the purpose of the benzyl alcohol preservative to prevent this though? was the 650 day number tested with preservative in it?

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-22 at 22:41

@old_angry_queer Nope! The benzyl alcohol is an antimicrobial. It's there to keep the tiny number of microbes that get into the vial when you pierce it from proliferating.

Rancidity happens even in a completely anaerobic environment, and is fundamentally a factor of time and entropy (aided by other things for sure).

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Written by Erin on 2025-01-23 at 00:47

@Impossible_PhD does refrigeration/freezing impact the vials? I was thinking about cold storage for long term on what I have if need be

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Written by Dani Tseng on 2025-01-23 at 00:55

@Impossible_PhD Yeah, that makes some things more complicated, and that's all I'll say.

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Written by liferstate on 2025-01-23 at 03:00

@Impossible_PhD Testosterone uses cottonseed oil. Any idea about the expiry on that?

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Written by Doc Impossible on 2025-01-23 at 03:01

@liferstate longer than castor oil, apparently.

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