Ancestors

Toot

Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-19 at 16:41

Good morning Mastodon peeps.

I can't tell if I am finished with my latest blog post, or just ready to abandon it.

https://terikanefield.com/democracy-oligarchy-and-tyranny/

It's called Democracy, Oligarchy , and Tyranny.

As coincidence would have it, as I was reading Book VIII of The Republic and considering a blog post about the interplay of democracy and oligarchy when Biden gave a speech warning Americans of a rising oligarchy.

Do your thing, Mastodon. (I know you'll kindly tell me if I made a mistake!)

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Descendants

Written by PrimaCharlie on 2025-01-19 at 16:43

@Teri_Kanefield

Gooooood Morning Teri. It’s great to see you post.

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-19 at 16:44

@cpfenix much less frequently these days.

I have a book coming out, travel plans, and more stuff.

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Written by ⏚ Antoine Chambert-Loir on 2025-01-19 at 16:56

@Teri_Kanefield (where is the photograph from? because of the tower on the back, I wonder whether it was taken in Paris's Rodin museum or elsewhere...)

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-19 at 16:57

@antoinechambertloir

Yup It's Rodin's thinker

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Written by zenkat on 2025-01-19 at 17:09

@Teri_Kanefield Love the historical perspective, and the willingness to deal with Socrates ambiguities. Thought-provoking.

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Written by Jacco Jasperse on 2025-01-19 at 17:23

@Teri_Kanefield Glad to see you back!

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Written by Donald Ham :sp_pride: on 2025-01-19 at 17:42

@Teri_Kanefield

As always, it's a breath of fresh air on All-Scary Eve to hear the bigger picture. I don't get this anywhere else and it is so important.

Maybe in the big arc of history, the success of the American experiment will be the eventual triumph of democracy with diversity.

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-19 at 17:44

@donaldham This is what we work toward, right?

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Written by Donald Ham :sp_pride: on 2025-01-19 at 17:47

@Teri_Kanefield

I think "e pluribus unum" is a lot better mission statement than "in god we trust."

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Written by Mike on 2025-01-19 at 18:32

@Teri_Kanefield Lovely piece. Interesting that Socrates doesn't value fitness / aptitude in an Oligarchy in the same way he does in a Democracy

Minor edits :

Para starting with Cephalus; towards the end there's a dangling "(" after repaying

1st para after the Woods aside, I think you have injustice where you wanted justice

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-19 at 18:36

@oldshabbyhat Got it. Thanks.

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Written by JohnMoyer on 2025-01-19 at 18:33

@Teri_Kanefield

Re: https://mastodon.social/@Teri_Kanefield/113856013196141172

You write: "The United States was similarly founded by a small homogenous group of (white, Protestant, well-educated and mostly wealthy men."

But this ignores Maryland (Catholic) and Pennsylvania (Quaker, Amish, Mennonite and others invited by Penn).

I think your statement is incomplete or misleading or represents only one faction.

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Written by Patty Ortiz on 2025-01-19 at 18:43

@Teri_Kanefield

This definitely helps me learn/ understand what seems to be cyclic in our country. Excellent- and thank you!

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Written by Zhi Zhu 🕸️ on 2025-01-19 at 20:10

"Political psychologist Karen Stenner explains that some people cannot tolerate complexity, and #diversity is a form of complexity. As a #democracy becomes more democratic and expands to include more people (and thus becomes more diverse) those who are averse to diversity become vulnerable to the promises of a leader who promises to restore “order.” This is what Stenner calls the #Authoritarian Dynamic."

• @Teri_Kanefield

https://terikanefield.com/democracy-oligarchy-and-tyranny/

[#]Politics #History #GOP #Trump #USPol #USA

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Written by Geeden_Of_Arden on 2025-01-19 at 20:48

@ZhiZhu

The question I'm left with is: Why? Why can't some people tolerate complexity, because complexity is a natural part of the universe that should not be intelligence-dependent. Perhaps something has short-circuited the brains of such people. Perhaps information technology is involved. @Teri_Kanefield

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-19 at 21:05

@Bon_Jardin @ZhiZhu

The person to ask is Karen Stenner. I'll show her your question.

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Written by Ande Jacobson on 2025-01-19 at 20:44

@Teri_Kanefield

Very timely indeed. Thank you for this one. You provide needed perspective on the cyclic nature of our governance and show us that what we are seeing today is neither new nor unique.

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Written by Linda MohrP on 2025-01-19 at 21:21

@Teri_Kanefield great post. My concern is what a civilization must go through to remove the oligarchy. Number 1, civil war, Number 2, the Great Depression, Number 3, ?????

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-19 at 21:41

@AdnilRhomx was it the Great Depression? Or was it the New Deal?

I think it was the New Deal.

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Written by MeredithW on 2025-01-20 at 15:47

@Teri_Kanefield @AdnilRhomx

I think we had to go through the Great Depression, which led to the New Deal as the action to remove the oligarchy.

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-20 at 16:26

@meredithw @AdnilRhomx

The argument would be that FDR was elected because of the Great Depression, which may be true. He was also an extraordinarily talented politician.

Chronology doesn't always equal causation. Even without the Great Depression working conditions were horrible, unions had been forming for decades and were gaining strength.

I think, given the factory conditions, a pro-labor candidate could won with a booming economy.

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-20 at 16:34

@meredithw @AdnilRhomx People trying to undo the New Deal argue that it wasn't the New Deal that righted the economy, it was World War Il, but the effects from the New Deal were felt immediately and outlasted the war.

Causation is always hard to pin down.

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Written by MeredithW on 2025-01-20 at 16:35

@Teri_Kanefield @AdnilRhomx That's the problem with trying to untangle cause and effect in complex systems, where things are often both causes and effects and everything's intertwined.

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Written by Teri Kanefield on 2025-01-20 at 16:45

@meredithw @AdnilRhomx

But then I have a huge bias: I think FDR was the most talented Democrat like ever. Why haven't Democratic presidents since understood the value of those fireside chats?

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Written by Wizard Bear (💉x8 + 😷) on 2025-01-19 at 21:55

@Teri_Kanefield TY Teri as always for another informative and very timely blog post. Love your voice here!

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Written by Eraserhead on 2025-01-19 at 23:19

@Teri_Kanefield "I can't tell if I am finished with my latest blog post, or  just ready to abandon it." : pretty much every author

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Written by Stybba3019 on 2025-01-19 at 23:36

@Teri_Kanefield Yay, another post from Teri! Speaking as a political theorist, this is a solid summation of Plato/Socrates & the dynamic of political self-subversion. Something that challenges us moderns when trying to maintain a diverse democracy is the divergent nature of "self-interest" between citizens. We like to think of self-interest as rational, something like an ROI calculation - if I vote for X, my benefits will increase more than my taxes. /1

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Written by Stybba3019 on 2025-01-19 at 23:43

@Teri_Kanefield But if your primary interest is in order, specifically of an order that has people like yourself in charge & people unlike yourself subject to punitive state control, then you will prefer that, even if it harms you materially. "How can a [demographic group member] vote for [candidate/party/policy]? It will hurt them!" Well, maybe, but it will also provide a non-material reward they value more. This is the Achilles heel of democracy.

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Written by Caleb on 2025-01-20 at 14:25

@Teri_Kanefield Emailed you some edits, LMK if you didn’t get them.

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