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Toot

Written by Daisy Leigh Brenecki on 2025-01-13 at 03:44

y'know, I'd seriously consider becoming a SRE if y'all would just stop using YAML for everything

or at the very least, stop building half-baked programming languages on top of YAML

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Written by Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ on 2025-01-13 at 03:50

@daisy I don't even hate YAML entirely, but yeah, it absolutely isn't a good basis for building a programming language off of. Debugging thousand-line CI definitions written out in YAML is not fun.

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Written by Daisy Leigh Brenecki on 2025-01-13 at 03:51

@xgranade YAML is fine (not amazing, but fine) for what it is. It is objectively the wrong tool for the tasks that most DevOps tooling uses it for.

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Written by sabik on 2025-01-13 at 04:16

@daisy @xgranade

Also wrong tool, using Jinja to template out anything with significant whitespace, even just significant line ends

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Written by Daisy Leigh Brenecki on 2025-01-13 at 04:17

@sabik @xgranade yep—nothing in DevOps is truly just YAML, it's either j2/erb/gomplate/etc generating YAML or it's YAML with some vendor-specific “special" keys/values that essentially allow you to construct a poor man's AST by hand.

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Written by xssfox :blobhaj_hearttrans: on 2025-01-13 at 04:22

@daisy @sabik @xgranade was considering today about writing a dsl to compile into github actions yaml because fuck me that thing has so many footguns

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Written by Cassandra Granade 🏳️‍⚧️ on 2025-01-13 at 04:50

@xssfox @daisy @sabik There's some cool examples out there of using KDL instead of YAML... doesn't entirely solve the templating footguns, but I personally find it a lot more legible at least.

https://github.com/kdl-org/kdl/blob/2.0.0/examples/ci.kdl

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Written by sabik on 2025-01-13 at 04:52

@xssfox @daisy @xgranade

Pro tip: unless you need one of the yaml features (like anchors or merge keys or comments etc), compile to json instead

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Written by Daisy Leigh Brenecki on 2025-01-13 at 05:19

@xssfox @sabik @xgranade would something like Dhall/Pkl/Jsonnet/Cue/etc do what you need to do maybe?

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Written by Simon Welsh on 2025-01-13 at 03:51

@daisy Screw with them all and convert it all to JSON, then quit and become a farmer

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Written by Firstyear on 2025-01-13 at 04:04

@daisy the best part of yaml is that by spec it includes a json parser

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Written by keystrokecascade on 2025-01-13 at 16:33

@daisy i just use yaml for silly little config files, are people trying to turn it into a whole ass programing language?

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Written by Daisy Leigh Brenecki on 2025-01-13 at 21:50

@keystroke yerp 😭

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