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Written by Beldarak on 2025-01-09 at 20:08

How did people manage to do #webdev before #chatgpt ?

It looks like the whole thing is just made to break our sanity.

Want to install that thing? Oh here's a list of 10 things you have to install first. Be aware that if any of those things update and another doesn't, your project will be stuck in a limbo forever.

Ok, here's the 15 json and config files you have to change/create to use the new thing you installed...

Each command you have to type will threw 50+ warnings, it's perfectly normal

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Written by Jared “Indie Social Web” White on 2025-01-09 at 20:20

@Beldarak Speaking as someone who's been doing this ~30 years:

You're in the middle of "modern" web dev.

It was an order of magnitude simpler before the hellscape that is JavaScript frameworks trying to eat the world.

Thankfully there are some new frameworks that are dramatically simplifying things again. Astro & 11ty are good ones in JS-land but you might be better off just learning another language that's server-focused and definitely more expressive. I'm a Ruby guy, first and foremost.

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Written by Jared “Indie Social Web” White on 2025-01-09 at 20:23

@Beldarak And my firm opinion is the best thing web frameworks could do is obsolete anyone needing ChatGPT (ugh) in the first place by ruthlessly eliminating boilerplate code, providing straightforward & automatable recipes for common tasks, and offering understandable and well-documented architectures which actively ward off spaghetti code and technical debt.

That's my 2c anyway =)

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Written by Beldarak on 2025-01-09 at 20:33

@jaredwhite

I feel we're in some kind of transition period. I can see the benefit of all those frameworks but someone need to come up with something similar to game engines but for web.

Install ONE software on your machine (+ eventual plugins) and your backend on your server and done.

We'll lose some customization but let's face it... we're just displaying and sending stupid forms 80% of the time, why are we needing 10 000 different tools for that job? :D

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Toot

Written by Jared “Indie Social Web” White on 2025-01-09 at 20:40

@Beldarak I've heard people describe most web apps as being just fancy spreadsheets…I think that's largely true! 🫣

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