Ancestors

Toot

Written by Holly Borla on 2024-11-23 at 00:41

My favorite Thanksgiving tradition is a good language design debate ahead of the holiday. This time on improving the approachability of data-race safety: https://forums.swift.org/t/prospective-vision-improving-the-approachability-of-data-race-safety/76183

I care deeply about this problem, and I appreciate any thoughts, questions, and other constructive feedback you have to share!

[#]SwiftLang #SwiftEvolution

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Descendants

Written by Steve Canon on 2024-11-23 at 01:14

@holly truly, our cup runneth over this year

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Written by Schwieb on 2024-11-23 at 01:39

@holly YES YES YES YES! the sheer amount of magical syntactical fairy dust we’ve had to sprinkle over our code in the last 3 months is overwhelming, and I look forward to this landing in Swift.next!

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Written by Rob Napier on 2024-11-23 at 03:22

@holly 🙀 (but in a good way)

I've just barely begun to skim, but just reading section "Allowing modules to default to being single-threaded" brings so much joy to my heart.

"They get me, they really get me."

I need to actually read this properly, and I'm sure I'll find a dozen things to whine about, but yes, this. Yes. I'm sure there are problems to iron out, but it's the vision we need.

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Written by Holly Borla on 2024-11-23 at 03:31

@cocoaphony I look forward to talking through the problems that you discover when you dig into it more!

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Written by Guy Brooker on 2024-11-23 at 07:06

@holly @cocoaphony music to my ears too. I’ve been writing an app with Swift 6 turned on from the start . It has been a lot easier than expected, but I do end up with so many @ MainActor’s littered about. I’ve found that the main culprit in this app driving that uncivil behavior has been anything which touches SwiftData…

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Written by Mikaela Caron 🦄 on 2024-11-23 at 03:43

@holly I love how you started this Thanksgiving tradition ❤️😂

I’m just starting to get into this all, and I haven’t fully read this, but thanks for all that you do! ❤️

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Written by Ma’moun on 2024-11-24 at 02:45

@holly This made my day! I know you had to deal with a lot of hatred recently. And to be honest, there were legit problems that are very hard to solve. Now it’s time for us to appreciate your positive attitude and the time you and the team spent to come up with creative solutions to those really hard problems. I’m really happy, I LOVE this proposal!

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Written by Christopher Thielen on 2024-11-24 at 07:03

@holly This looks exciting. Enabling programmers to write single-threaded, sequential code and apply concurrency more selectively feels like a good balance.

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Written by Helge Heß on 2024-11-25 at 22:43

@holly Upfront, I didn't really read the thing, just the Tsai summary, in which we have this:

We believe that the right solution to these problems is to allow code to opt in to being “single-threaded” by default, on a module-by-module basis

My first reaction is that this feels pretty wrong to me. Especially for libraries, i.e. modules, I have the feeling that the default should be non-isolated?

Is that a special construct for UI libs? But then View is already marked MainActor as a type.

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Written by Sven A. Schmidt on 2024-11-25 at 23:36

@helge Best read the thing 🙂

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Written by Helge Heß on 2024-11-25 at 23:39

@finestructure That sounds like work, I rather rely on opinions of people I respect 🙈

You think it’s cool?

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Written by Holly Borla on 2024-11-26 at 00:26

@helge I agree with you that main actor isolation is not the right default for libraries. The document argues that it is the right default for executable targets, such as apps, command line tools, and scripts.

I recommend at least skimming the document - the headings will give you a good idea of the various arguments and counter arguments covered in the sections, and the additive features under consideration.

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