Ancestors

Written by Urix Turing on 2024-11-18 at 09:01

People in the Fediverse are asking the right question to Bluesky: where's your federation?

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Toot

Written by Urix Turing on 2024-11-18 at 09:02

Here: https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2024/11/15/Not-Bluesky

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Descendants

Written by Urix Turing on 2024-11-18 at 09:03

And here: https://pluralistic.net/2024/11/02/ulysses-pact/

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Written by Urix Turing on 2024-11-18 at 12:27

Some random thoughts after reading @timbray and @pluralistic:

Imagine that setting up an account and connect to any social network was so easy that there would be millions of interconnected social networks.

Well, we don't need to imagine that, that's how the web or the email were built. Interoperability is inexistent between major platforms by design. Sure, it is not a trivial problem, but setting up a social account should be as ordinary as setting up a blog or an email account.

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Written by Marti Abernathy on 2024-11-18 at 13:10

@urixturing @timbray @pluralistic even blogging (Wordpress) and email (Google) are enshitified and getting away from either conglomerate isn’t that easy. Setup may be easy, but getting away from them isn’t. (1/2)

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Written by Strange Quark on 2024-11-18 at 13:31

@urixturing @timbray @pluralistic On Facebook's lack of interoperability by design (1/2):

Way back in 2008, Facebook announced that Facebook chat would be interoperable with Jabber/XMPP, a widely-used open messaging protocol.

The feature was added in 2010[1]. Google Talk used the same protocol.

Facebook cynically used XMPP support to draw in millions of XMPP users before dropping support in 2014.

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2010/02/10/facebook-chat-launches-xmpp-support/

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Written by Strange Quark on 2024-11-18 at 13:32

@urixturing @timbray @pluralistic 2/2

The EU's Digital Markets Act requires Facebook to make its messaging services interoperable again, but they are dragging their heels and making excuses[2].

[2] https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-messenger-messaging-interoperability-eu/

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Written by DrYak on 2024-11-18 at 20:36

@strangequark at least this make hard (as in "very finable") to pull the plug on adversarial interop tools like Mautrix-whatsapp:

https://matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/whatsapp/

Incidentally, I also expect the same will happen with BlueSky, 3rd party PDS (personnal data server -- the only tiny bit that's already kind of getting decentralized) and tools like Bridgy Fed (which shows up like any other 3rd party PDS on BlueSky): not easy for them to kill without fines now with DMA.

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Written by Chris Hodges on 2024-11-18 at 13:56

@strangequark @urixturing @timbray @pluralistic

Google's dropping of XMPP must have been around the same time, because it came with Hangouts and the transition started about then. I kept going for a little longer before the XMPP server I used shut down

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Written by Oblomov on 2024-11-18 at 14:08

@HodgesC @strangequark @urixturing @timbray @pluralistic Google dropped XMPP federation at around the same time when FB dropped support, but Hangouts remained accessible via XMPP still for a long time.

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Written by Impish4249 on 2024-11-18 at 14:45

@HodgesC @strangequark @urixturing @timbray @pluralistic

Collusion? Dividing the spoils? Nah, they would never stoop so lo....oh...wait...

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Written by truh on 2024-11-18 at 14:12

@strangequark @urixturing @timbray @pluralistic Being on 6 different chats was a lot more bearable when you could connect to all of them with the same client that also used a lot fewer resources than a single client needs now.

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Written by Sebastian Krzyszkowiak on 2024-11-18 at 14:17

@strangequark @urixturing @timbray @pluralistic For the record, while Google Talk actually was a federated XMPP service (which later pulled the rug out and stopped federating), Facebook Chat never was one. You could only log into it using an XMPP client, but the network was completely separate and nothing was interoperable there aside of that bridge.

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Written by Sckenai on 2024-11-18 at 14:35

@strangequark @urixturing @timbray @pluralistic Only one of the many Embrace, Extend & Extinguish approach first associated with MicroSoft. The Tech landscape is littered with examples of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

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Written by Mikalai on 2024-11-18 at 17:12

@urixturing

There is a nuance in mentioning email (smtp) and web in federation.

Email requires server cooperation.

But you can open two different web sites simultaneously. There is cooperation between servers needed.

@timbray @pluralistic

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Written by ferricoxide@evil.social on 2024-11-18 at 17:57

@urixturing@hachyderm.io @timbray@cosocial.ca @pluralistic@mamot.fr

Back in the Usenet days, it was pretty much that easy (if you were getting usenet connectivity from one of the thousands of Usenet nodes)

And, in my mind, Usenet is the real granddaddy of social media.

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