We, the anonymous editors of the Stallman report, have published our investigation of Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation today to a general audience:
https://stallman-report.org
Our report exhaustively catalogues, analyzes, and offers a rebuttal of Richard Stallman's political program of sexual violence, catalogues credible allegations of misconduct, and documents the misconduct of the #FSF circa 2019 and 2021. Please read and share our work.
Boosts encouraged.
[#]freesoftware
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@report_press@mastodon.social It's been nearly 4 years since the open letter failed to achieve anything.
Get over it, bruh.
:gnujihad:
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@report_press@mastodon.social Can I also just say that personally attacking people through an anonymous report is also a very lame thing to do?
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@SuperDicq @report_press defending a known sex pest though, that's supa-coo 🙄
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@stripey@meow.social @report_press@mastodon.social "known sex pest"
Having some controversial political opinions and that one Betsy story from 45 years ago are pretty far from being a sex pest.
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@SuperDicq @stripey @report_press
What controversial political opinions are you referring to?
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@DaveMWilburn@infosec.exchange @stripey@meow.social @report_press@mastodon.social The same old quotes about things that are generally considered socially unacceptable to merely disagree on with the rest of society like age of consent and pornography.
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@SuperDicq @stripey @report_press
I see, so you think that the question of whether grownups should be able to have sex with children is just something that we might respectfully "merely disagree" on?
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@DaveMWilburn@infosec.exchange @stripey@meow.social @report_press@mastodon.social No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
A lot of people (including you apparently) are literally incapable of having a civil political discussion around the laws that govern sex without immediately painting the other side of the argument as disgusting pedophiles or something. There is a huge taboo around even discussing these things!
Like for example what should be proper age of consent? Should it be 16, 17, 18, or maybe even 21? If your answer differs only slightly from the norm in your region of the world you will be called a pedophile guaranteed.
Same when it comes to the banning of pornography that includes animals for example. We should be able to have a civil discussion if the criminalization of possession of these types of pornography can be considered censorship while keeping subjective morals of doing so in the first place about this out of the discussion.
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@SuperDicq @report_press OK, so since I have lots of pending work with very tight deadlines but zero (0) concentration skills, I’m gonna dig my own grave for no benefit whatsoever :blobcatsip:
I strongly agree that age of consent as a hard line is nonsense. There’s no universal, discrete time period where sexual and mental maturity are reached. It’s so nonsense that in countries like mine, you’ll find that courts basically ignore it even in cases of a significant age gap as factors like “mental age” are instead considered. There’s even cases of minors sexually abusing adults, the elderly, etc. imho the important thing is power imbalances and vulnerability, and those can only be properly considered case-by-case. And I see why legal age can hinder development of teenagers as Stallman says, as if they were all innocent, pure beings of light until reaching 18 (or even 25 as some are saying by now????), with no right to e.g. any pornography or sexting, regardless of how healthy it may be.
However. Stallman makes the point that all teenagers should be treated as sexual equivalents to adults, being able to offer consent accordingly. I am also strongly against this idea. Shouldn’t be hard to see why: 12 year olds are in average less mature than, say, 40 year olds. In fact, at 12 one barely even starts knowing they have impulses and desires, and most likely don’t even know much about their bodies, let alone social dynamics, law, giving birth, etc. Learning the hard way is probably not the best course of action. The report makes a decent job of giving examples.
Also, (producing) CSAM bad. Shouldn’t be really worth arguing about.
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@xerz@fedi.xerz.one @report_press@mastodon.social I just want to make very clear I do not agree with Stallman on these topics, but I do not think he should be called a pedophile for simply voicing his opinion.
And yes producing CSAM is bad. The A stands for abuse, abuse is always bad, there's no arguments here.
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@SuperDicq @report_press He's not being called anything for "simply voicing his opinion". Most of us go through a phase where we question such things. (I basically came to the same conclusion as @xerz, with a little more pessimism about the ability of law to represent such nuanced concepts as "power relations", aged 15-ish.)
I think the fact he still holds these views, even after dozens of people have explained to him how he's wrong and harming others, is worthy of criticism.
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@wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org @report_press@mastodon.social @xerz@fedi.xerz.one Sure, I can agree with the criticism, that's fair.
But I don't see how this is something worthy of ruining someone's career, credibility and boycotting every organization he's associated with?
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@SuperDicq @xerz @report_press It's not. It's obviously not. But that's not what's happening.
Richard Stallman refuses to improve as a person, except in exceptional, increasingly-rare circumstances, and people in positions of power are closing ranks around him.
If he was just an arsehole nobody who contributed some ideas, that's one thing. If he was an influential arsehole who worked on himself (e.g. Linus Torvalds), that's another thing. But he's made himself a political figure.
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@SuperDicq @xerz @report_press At any point, he has the option of no longer being a political figure. He doesn't have to resign from free software, or even activism, so long as he isn't wielding the power of organisations and bureaucracy and other people's labour for his own ends.
I've stated above some parts of my views about certain political issues unrelated to the issue of free software—about which of those activities are or aren't unjust. Your views about them might differ,
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@wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org @xerz@fedi.xerz.one @report_press@mastodon.social I'm pretty sure all his work that he does for the FSF is to promote free software. I don't think there's anyone as dedicated to the cause as Stallman is personally.
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@SuperDicq He has been known to veto decisions made in GNU projects he doesn't even maintain.
The fact he believes he has a veto, and the fact that other people act as though he has a veto – the fact he has a voting seat – suggests that's not the extent of what he does.
I'm sure Richard Stallman feels righteous, but a feeling of righteousness is easy. It appears he's not willing to put in the hard work of self-improvement. Even Linus Torvalds (opponent of GPLv3) has him beat there.
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@wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org Also I don't agree with Torvald's opposition towards the GPLv3 whatsoever.
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@SuperDicq Even the AGPLv3 doesn't go far enough: they've invented new and exciting forms of tivoization that technically don't break the rules. We need a GPLv4 imo.
(And, despite saying that, I've mostly stopped licensing stuff as -or-later. I no longer trust the FSF to write a decent GPLv4. Heck, I barely trust Creative Commons any more.)
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@wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org I agree, I wouldn't mind a GPLv4 (or 3.1?) that addresses some issues, especially clarification on code usage in machine learning training data and other modern issues.
But I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure if that is necessary.
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@SuperDicq @wizzwizz4 The thing is that technically if the training data (content like video, photos, text) who are under the default proprietary license instead of one of the copyleft creative commons, then by the usual logic then the result should be also proprietary.
I'm taking of course a worse case scenario (as it should be with current corpos/legislation).
But it would be great if legally a General Public Licensed software would have exceptions to this like would a research project would have.
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@mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world @wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org Even if it is not enforceable because as you said regular proprietary media is being used in training data too. It will still put up a red tape over the code that makes these AI companies think twice still.
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@SuperDicq @wizzwizz4
regular proprietary media is being used in training data too
Yes but they legally acquired that data/content due to everyone "agreeing" the terms an conditions. People didn't and still don't realize that when a service , lets say discord" put "you grants use an unlimited permanent license of your data" you just signed away ownership of anything you did. And it's notably used now to trains proprietary IAs legally.
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@mangeurdenuage @SuperDicq Copyleft software licenses should not have "if you have enough electricity and compute power, you can launder the share-alike clause away" as a valid interpretation.
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@wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq Indeed.
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@mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world @wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org I agree too, but the politicians and courts who don't understand that machine learning is just a program with input and output like any other piece of software we have will say dumb shit like "So uh like AI is like not human so copyright does not apply lmao bruh"
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@SuperDicq @wizzwizz4 Digital laws should only be made by people who worked in the field with public software.
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@wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq
I no longer trust the FSF to write a decent GPLv4. Heck, I barely trust Creative Commons any more.)
Fear is the mind killer if you want to solve this study and share NVC.
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@mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world @wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org If you put -or-later on your software you need to have a lot of trust in FSF that they will not get compromised at any future date. I personally still use or-later because I have faith but I do think that not using -or-later is a completely valid standpoint.
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@SuperDicq @mangeurdenuage And, like, I'm going to be around and contactable for the next few decades at least. If GPLv4 comes out, and someone tells me about it, I can review it and decide whether to relicense my software.
If I get hit by a bus, whoever inherits the copyright can deal with that. If they don't want to bother, well, I do trust the Software Freedom Conservancy.
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@wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq
I do trust the Software Freedom Conservancy.
I don't. They went full retard with the slander that happened a few years ago and that's not ok.
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@mangeurdenuage @SuperDicq Given how you phrased that, I expect I'll disagree with your assessment. But, I haven't heard about this. What happened?
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@wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq Basically a group of schizos accused rms of a lot of stuff when he argued in a mailing list about the relation of Marvin Minsky and Epstein, then drama happened see https://stallmansupport.org/
As I said in another post, this is a fucking waste of time and the same people are still trying to gank rms on those fantasies of them.
There's like so much work to do legally and technically for computer freedom and these people waist there time degrading the whole communities over nothing.
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@mangeurdenuage @SuperDicq I'm familiar with that. I somewhat agree, but I believe you've misrepresented the situation, and I'm not sure why you're holding the Software Freedom Conservancy culpable.
The later (and earlier) criticisms of Richard Stallman are valid. Indeed, criticisms about his opinions on that very topic are also valid! Taking one quote out of context "as evidence" of reprehensible views, is not however acceptable.
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@wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq
I'm not sure why you're holding the Software Freedom Conservancy culpable.
Because it's obvious that they didn't do such a simple job of checking what was true and what wasn't.
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@mangeurdenuage @SuperDicq What the Software Freedom Conservancy wrote was true, though? They were one of the only groups that actually had a good take on that mess.
https://sfconservancy.org/news/2019/sep/16/rms-does-not-speak-for-us/
When considered with other reprehensible comments he has published over the years, these incidents form a pattern of behavior that is incompatible with the goals of the free software movement. We call for Stallman to step down from positions of leadership in our movement.
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@wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq As far as I recall that wasn't the case.
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@wizzwizz4 @mangeurdenuage @SuperDicq I must have missed the part where RMS did actual harm to someone.
Having an opinion, disagreeable or not, does no harm.
Stop normalizing the idea of thought-crimes, thx.
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@funbaker@chaos.social @wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org @mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world I agree.
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@SuperDicq I tried to read the "report". The part I read is already full of shit.
The source for one of the "allegations" is the apology for that one, followed by the accusations that this apology does not cover all the other "allegations".
This can only be described as being full of shit. No matter how hard I try.
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@funbaker@chaos.social Oh yeah especially the section "Analysis of Stallman’s published comments" that contains a supposed table where they count Stallman's statements and his retractions.
It is obviously unfair to count the amount of retractions against the amount of statements relating to a certain topic.
Expecting a retraction for every single individual statement that you consider problematic is unreasonable. I bet Stallman himself doesn't remember the exact thing he said 20+ years ago on some random mailing list.
If someone makes a retraction on a single topic you should assume that all the other related statements to the same topic are to be considered retracted as well.
I might go as far and say that the way they present this table is done so maliciously.
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@funbaker@chaos.social Also the explicit call to action at the end of the report for all the listed FSF members that the report considers "contemporaneous with the associated patterns of misconduct" to step down leaves a specifically bad taste in my mouth.
This is textbook cancel culture. Fostering a toxic "you're with us or against us" narrative.
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@SuperDicq "Cancel culture" is a quite modern term. No, this is a classic withhunt, minus the burning at the stake.
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@funbaker@chaos.social Cancel culture is the social media equivalent in the modern era. I think it applies here.
There is a reason why cancel culture is listed under discrimination on Wikipedia, because it's generally bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture
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@funbaker @mangeurdenuage @SuperDicq Richard Stallman would, I hope, disagree.
In anything we publish, and anything we send to strangers (they might redistribute it to the public), we have to show that our views about issues are primarily based on the moral level.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/the-moral-and-the-legal.html
His writings are part of why I feel this way about things. I would love to see him address these issues, these arguments – but he just doesn't.
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@funbaker @mangeurdenuage @SuperDicq We shouldn't force him to: I agree strongly that "thought crimes" aren't. But, being a leader comes with responsibilities.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to choose one.
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@wizzwizz4 @funbaker @SuperDicq
But, being a leader comes with responsibilities.
And he does, there's nothing one can do much about this. He already responded to the issue and people said "no you aren't sincere, you're lying" the usual suspects don't want him to say that he's sorry, he already did that, they want him and all his supporters gone so they can put people who share the same group think as them, it's literally stated at the bottom of their text.
It's very unproductive to spend energy like that. They should have done their own group instead "the friends of the software freedom movement for female empowerment" or something like that instead of shooting in the group like that.
I'll add that "responsibility" is something we all share, "followers" are not exempted of that. Again I encourage to see cnvc.org
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@wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq @funbaker As always be a good neighbor, be excellent to each other.
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@mangeurdenuage @wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq wth should that mean?
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@funbaker @wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq The more elaborate explanation too this is here cnvc.org
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@mangeurdenuage You probably know how hard this is, especially in the topic here. @wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq
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@mangeurdenuage Look, I'm not really the type who hides words in a discussion. @wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq
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@funbaker @wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq
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@funbaker @wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq I know. That's why I use simpler versions like what I posted previously.
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@mangeurdenuage For me it's not the time to watch videos. @wizzwizz4 @SuperDicq
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@SuperDicq @wizzwizz4 Legal bullshit is bullshit but it's practical to have compatibility between v2 and v3.
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