I still just don't get braille screen input on iOS. I don't get it. In screen away mode, why would you have the dots horizontally and not vertically? My fingers want to automatically press them vertically. Like I would read them. I don't even know how I'd position my hands to do the horizontal inputs. Why not have your fingers from top to bottom? Like am I missing something here? That just feels very natural to do. But holding your phone, screen facing away, and then you have to place your fingers along the entire width of the thing in a straight line? If I hold my phone between two hands, screen facing away, my fingers automatically just orient themselves in two rows from top to bottom. On either side of the screen. Why can't I have it like that?
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The one mode where it is like that is in tabletop mode. Except tabletop mode is just... the wrong way around? I don't know how else to explain this but no matter which way I flip my phone, the dots are never where I expect them to be. What is wrong with me? So many people are doing this just fine but I struggle so much with this. I know braille! I can read and write braille! Why is this so entirely unintuitive to me?
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OK. In settings, you have a toggle to reverse dot positions. So that fixes it? Except that's still tabletop mode. And I have to force it into tabletop mode while holding it as if I'm using screen away mode. This is just... bad? I'm so confused.
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Hahahaha nevermind reverse dot positions reverses them in the exact way that I don't want. It doesn't mirror them. It just swaps the top and bottom dots. I'm going back to the normal direct touch keyboard I think.
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This happens every single time I try this stuff :(
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Oh wait. OK. Reverse dot positions, and then flip the phone the opposite way that people tell me to flip it. That works.
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OK. So. Hold phone in screen away mode, locked to tabletop mode, reversed dot positions, with power button on top. That is my configuration. It's definitely not comfortable, but it works. I was able to type a sentence.
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Sorry BSI enthusiasts I'm not switching from my direct touch keyboard though.
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hi there im braille screen input.
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Missed the apostrophe but the rest was fine. I think this is the first time I ever got this to actually output proper text.
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The reason I like direct touch normal keyboard is it requires very little phone juggling. It's very quick to do. It also isn't full screen so I can still kind of explore the visible parts of the screen above the keyboard. I'd also say it's really quick to type with two thumbs but I suppose that's more familiarity than anything else. You can probably be pretty quick with BsI too especially with contracted braille input. I forgot a lot of my English contracted braille though so I'd have to relearn that. I only ever really read German contracted braille. Which obviously won't work well for typing in English
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But hey I achieved something today I thought I never would. I got BsI to output the text I meant to type. That's definitely new.
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@talon I am absolutely in love with tabletop myself.
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@Blobsta nah I hate this entire thing. No matter what mode I use it never seems to do what I want. See the next post where I complaion about tabletop mode :D
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@talon Aww meow well that's just rude. Its so cool once you get it working.
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@talon Hey idea, have you tried reverse dot positions? Also if this helps, for me, mine is with the charge port on the left.
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@talon @Blobsta I'm the same. I know braille extremely well like you, having learned it when I was little, but I just can't do the braille thing on the phone. I think it is more trouble than it is worth. for me. Some people can do it so fast! Jealous! Plus, it doesn't help them my fingers shake because of medication I'm on.
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@talon I keep using it in screen away mode but with orientation locked, I can't imagine it any other way
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@miki how? How do you do it? What weird kind of hand positions do you have to do to get your fingers to naturally align like that? Phone between two palms, fingers on screen. Top to bottom. It's natural. It makes sense! But I guess not.
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@talon yeah, phone between two palms, the screen facing away from me, top speaker on the left, lightning port on the right, volume buttons on the top, power button on the bottom
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@talon And it's in screen away mode, so dots 1 and 4 are near the volume buttons and 3 and 6 are near the power button, and that's just how my hands are positioned.
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@miki no wonder people don't like typing on their phones lol
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@talon You can lock the mode you're in, so hopefully it will just automatically go in tabletop every time.
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@talon You also can recalibrate your dots in case you didn't know, by pushing 4 5 6, releasing, then 1 2 3 in quick succession.
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@talon At least you can say you tried it: I use it nearly all the time, but I know it doesn't suit everybody.
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@talon Hi from a good old computer keyboard!
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@talon hey at least it is a start! smile. good job!
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@talon I have to use uncontracted braille when typing German in BSI because I don't know a lot of the contractions: I use contracted braille for English and French, though.
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@frog67 I did learn English braille contractions many, many, many years ago, but I never used them enough to not forget. If I read something I could probably fumble my way through and remember some of it, but it's definitely not enough for typing.
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@talon I learned a few German contractions years ago, but not enough to write German contracted braille.
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@talon you can type with two thumbs? holy crap that is so much better than me. I mean I know a lot of sighted people that do it that way, but I just hunt and peck. I usually touch the letter I want, and if not, I am usually a letter off, so there is that, but if I could type with two thumbs that woule be cool. I don't think I could though as I am not sure how I would hold the phone that way. usually I have my phone in my left hand, and then I type and use the phone with my right
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@JamminJerry if you're on android then it's a bit of a pain and one of the main reasons I don't want to switch. There's no direct touch input, so you'll always have the lag of pressing the key, hearing it announced, then releasing it and waiting for the key to get triggered which is just painfully slow. As for holding, I usually make a chaotic nest with my fingers, then rest the phone on it with the edges of the phone pressing kinda near the middle of my hand. And well my thumbs just naturally rest over the bottom part of the screen that way, which is where the keyboard is. And then the left thumb kinda does what my left hand would do on a physical keyboard, and the right thumb would do what my right hand does. Not always exactly, but more or less. And the rest is just figuring out where the keys are, and figuring out what auto correct will let you get away with. And it learns over time so it's less and less of an issue.
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@talon well while android is my main phone, I do use an IPhone too, but I type the same way on it. I have never used direct touch input. I have just always done the touch the screen hear the letter, and lift if it is the right letter, or move just slightly to the right one, and lift. that is just how I have always done it regardless of what phone I am on. in all honesty depending on the android phone you are using, once you touch the screen, it is pretty fast at saying the character you are on. almost as fast as the IPhone. I know my Z Flip5 which is my main phone is slightly faster at responding than my pixel 7 pro is.
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@JamminJerry yes but iPhone in touch typing mode is also too slow for me. It's direct touch input or I won't bother. If I tap the screen, the key needs to be entered pretty much immediately. If it takes half a second to type a letter then I'll probably just not bother typing at all.
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@talon I think you are right though. I could never go to direct touch input like that. it is what we are used to. I am just used to typing the way I do, because I have been doing it for let me think. around 12 to 13 years now.
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@JamminJerry yup and I've been doing the direct touch route ever since Fleksy came out. First on Android, maybe 2012 or 2013? Then iPhone got the direct touch input and I pretty much switched immediately. I type a lot on my phone so this is one part I can't really compromise on.
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@talon I do voice dictating, as mine usually gets what I say right, if I had to guess I would say at least 95 percent of the time.
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@JamminJerry yeah I really don't like dictation if I'm honest. A lot of it still doesn't happen locally on device, plus not the entire world needs to always hear what I'm typing. And otherwise voice messages are also a thing so you can talk without losing nuance. But yeah I get why people use it. For sure.
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@talon well seeings how 98 percent of the time, I am at home that really isn't an issue. smile.
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@JamminJerry Well yeah that's fair. If you usually have access to a physical keyboard then that's obviously preferable too
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@talon the type of typing I absolutely hate is the double tapping of letters. now that one to me is very slow at doing.
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@talon I used the same but I use the first and second fingers on my right hand.
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@KaraLG84 index and middle finger? That's interesting. I feel like I'd very quickly lose my position that way. The reason I use my thumbs is that they're more or less fixed. My phone is in the way so they don't have room to move far beyond the keyboard, and my hands are fixed so I always know where to move my thumb to hit a key.
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@talon Yeah I hold it sort of at a weird angle.My left hand's a bit knackered because of my cerebral palsy.
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@KaraLG84 Ah that's very fair.
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@talon I type with a mix of English (for apostrophes) and Spanish (for parentheses and accents) uncontracted braille. I think I'd be too paranoid of typos to use direct touch typing
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@sukiletxe so then just... read what you're typing? I have character echo off, word echo on. If I typo a word I either fix it immediately or I go back and fix it later. I don't know how you would not notice.
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@talon From a really small test: sometimes I put the finger for too long, so the direct touch is lost. Other times I type a word with one character off in every character (so instead of "this" I type "rgua", for example). Ah, and I sometimes type l or ñ instead of deleting a character.
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@sukiletxe your phone will associate rgua with this very quickly if you let it. And for l and delete yeah that's really just a familiarity thing. Like you have to kind of build muscle memory for this kind of stuff. So let your fingers figure out where they need to go by themselves without thinking. But I realize that takes dedication and time, just like how it would take dedication and time for me to learn BSI.
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@talon Ah OK that makes sense. I have a problem with the first point, I type in Basque sometimes which is not supported, and autocorrect may do its thing, sadly. But the rest, yeah, matter of time and getting used to it, I suppose.
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@sukiletxe How do we still have problems with unsupported languages and typing and correction in 2024? From one of the richest companies in the world? Despicable honestly
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@talon No idea. Office and Windows support it, that's all I can say. It's a minority language too, so I guess that's not in its favour either.
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@sukiletxe That shouldn't matter. It should work. Ugh
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@talon Right. I think een the free libraries for autocorrect support it, go figure
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@talon Hey, I'm QWERTY. Do you come here often?
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@Scott Nope. Once in a lifetime!
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@talon Hello braille screen input!
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@talon I... cannot understand why you put it in tabletop mode with reversed dot positions. Have you used a Perkins brailler? Because that does seem like literally typing without reversing them (i. e. left index dot 1, right index dot 4). Seriously, how do you type?
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@sukiletxe the problem is ergonomics. I can type in screen away mode, but definitely not while holding it. I'd have to line my fingers up horizontally next to each other which is really uncomfortable to do, and my fingers naturally don't want to assume that position. They want to go in a row from top to bottom just by the way I'm holding the thing.
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@sukiletxe I realize that it's like a brailler, but a brailler is usually flat on a surface. If I put my phone in that config and then lie it on a table, I have no problems with it at all. But not while holding it.
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@talon Yup this is why I don't like tabletop mode. I can hold it with my thumbs and half my pinkies, but I'm not confortable doing it in case it falls.
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