Comment by 👻 darkghost

=> Re: "Port Of Miami Explosion -- thoughts on safety" | In: u/stack

NIB safety is only improved for aqueous electrolytes. But aqueous electrolytes lower the voltage and limit the energy density, so these will have limited mobile use. The most widely used electrolytes use organic carbonate-based solvents in the electrolyte (like diethyl carbonate), all of them flammable. A less flammable electrolyte has been studied, but it's made non-flammable by fluorinated sodium-boron salts. It's also very clearly not even in the vehicle-sized battery prototype stage yet. Even for small 10 kWh applications.

=> 👻 darkghost

2024-12-19 · 6 weeks ago

7 Later Comments ↓

=> 🚀 stack [OP] · Dec 19 at 13:32:

A thermal runaway and a fire of lithium batteries typically emits large amounts of thick (and deadly) smoke. Unlike normal fires, these do not self-extinguish in airtight containers, and will eventually build up pressure and cause some sort of a violent and fiery explosion...

There is a significant media bias to under-report EV-related negative stories.

As for radium drinks -- I doubt they were OK... They didn't kill you instantly, and until recently, people just died, reason unknown, or maybe of cancer of some sort. When you are a rich guy who drinks it day and night for years and your jaw falls off, people and the press (which made a lot of money from radium ads) -- finally notice.

If an 'important' person died in an EV fire you bet EVs would be illegal overnight.

=> 👻 darkghost · Dec 19 at 14:12:

@hansbrix It's possible you're thinking of the older sodium nickel chloride batteries that use a solid electrolyte. These batteries need to be heated to 250°C to operate. It works okay in an EV but you need plugs wherever you park, since your battery will freeze if it's unplugged for too long. I think it was the Th!nk City around 2008 out of Norway that had one of these batteries. But they replaced it with lithium in later models.

=> 👻 darkghost · Dec 19 at 14:30:

@stack I'm sure radium drinks weren't okay but they were on the market for such a short period of time I'm sure the damage was minimal. The people who got rotting jaws were the women who painted the radium glow paint on watch dials. They'd wet the brush in their mouth to make it into a fine point to more accurately paint the watch face. Radium in the body looks like calcium, so it would be integrated into their jaw bones. And then the soft tissue would be destroyed from the inside out. No regulation ever existed banning these watches. It was just replaced with tritium (heavy hydrogen.)

=> 🚀 stack [OP] · Dec 19 at 15:25:

@darkghost, I was actually referring to the story of Eben Byers, a wealthy new-yorker who was perscribed Radithor for pain after an injury, and took it for several years.

=> — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Byers

=> — /u/stack/image/369.jpeg

it's a horrific tale and the only reason we know about it is because he was a one-percenter. It's hard to estimate how many people suffered needlessly because of corrupt press and lack of access to information.

It's ironic to observe how it's largely the same, Internet and all.

=> 👻 darkghost · Dec 19 at 16:05:

@stack Thanks for bringing it to my attention. The human condition never changes regardless of the technology. There's loads of quackery abound these days. Steve Jobs comes to mind as a wealthy person who tried to cure cancer with alternative medicine. Unlike the backlash in the case of Eben Byers, alternative medicine is more popular than ever.

=> 🚀 stack [OP] · Dec 19 at 16:38:

@darkghost, alternative medicine is a whole other can of worms. Medicine is good for maybe 95% of problems, if you are normal. God help you if you have some genetic weirdness, or if your ailment is not common. It's no wonder people seek out someone who is actually willing to help (even if what they are peddling is garbage).

Although some harmless alternative cures actually work: my mom swears by pee compresses for sunburns, and urea + moisture is pretty good for the skin...

=> 👻 darkghost · Dec 19 at 17:31:

@stack You're definitely better off getting common diseases that have been studied thoroughly for a long time. They tend to have treatments or cures. I've worked on medicines for people who have pretty rare diseases. My brother has something so rare that as far as we know, he's the only one in the world with it.

Original Post

=> 🚀 stack

Port Of Miami Explosion -- thoughts on safety — I've complained a lot about the fire hazards of lithium batteries. Recently a container with several EVs exploded in the port of Miami. The most likely cause is a Tesla that was previously flooded with salt water. However all the cars in the container (4, I think) had some damage, and very minor damage such as a fender bender can crack the battery case, turning a car into a timebomb. Part of the problem was blamed on the inability to shut down...

=> 💬 10 comments · 2024-12-19 · 6 weeks ago