=> back to Techrights (Main Index)
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00:14 MinceR; https://ircz.de/p/22070841
=> ↺ https://ircz.de/p/22070841
00:14 TR Bot; IRCZ makes your life worth living https://i.redd.it/22l7pbjzi6a91.jpg created on 2022-07-08 11:28:50.784249
=> ↺ https://i.redd.it/22l7pbjzi6a91.jpg
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00:21 TR News; "https://debian.community/assets/debian-women-keyring.svg
=> ↺ https://debian.community/assets/debian-women-keyring.svg
00:29 britney; DaemonFC, I love how you rant about social media and then have a "share on twitter" and "share of facebook" buttons at the bottom
00:38 schestowitz[TR2]; part of templates
00:41 DaemonFC; If there's some way of removing those, I'd like to know.
00:44 schestowitz[TR2]; are they locally hosted/
00:45 schestowitz[TR2]; some such buttons are spyware
00:45 schestowitz[TR2]; they track the users for those spying giants
00:45 schestowitz[TR2]; then again wordpress.com see everything
00:48 DaemonFC; Yeah, the only option I see is to add more crap.
00:48 DaemonFC; Including paying Wordpress to use Cloudflare for something.
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00:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 34.50 k/sec., IPFS upstream 26.06 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
01:01 phanes; mjg59_, re: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.20.3.pdf | I see that exhibits 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10 are present, but 1, 4, 5, 6 are not present in Reichwein's submission in the Todd case. Do you know what happened with those exhibits?
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.20.3.pdf
01:03 TR News; Terraform Import - Leaving Click Opps Behind https://earthly.dev/blog/terraform-lambda/
=> ↺ https://earthly.dev/blog/terraform-lambda/
01:03 TR Bot; Terraform Import - Leaving Click Ops Behind - Earthly Blog
01:04 TR News; Moving from one prison to another https://batsov.com/articles/2022/07/20/fastmail-year-one/
=> ↺ https://batsov.com/articles/2022/07/20/fastmail-year-one/
01:04 TR Bot; Fastmail: Year One - (think)
01:04 TR News; We won't be sending systemd logs to Grafana Loki in JSON format https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/GrafanaLokiAvoidingJSON
=> ↺ https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/GrafanaLokiAvoidingJSON
01:05 TR Bot; Chris's Wiki :: blog/sysadmin/GrafanaLokiAvoidingJSON
01:07 TR News; How Amazon et al will be selling listening devices to people https://cacm.acm.org/news/262831-raising-the-voices-of-the-dead/fulltext
=> ↺ https://cacm.acm.org/news/262831-raising-the-voices-of-the-dead/fulltext
01:07 TR Bot; Raising the Voices of the Dead | News | Communications of the ACM
01:08 TR News; Students, Campuses and Dominant Corporate Power - Ralph Nader https://nader.org/2022/07/16/students-campuses-and-dominant-corporate-power/ Source: nader | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//nader.org/2022/07/16/students-campuses-and-dominant-corporate-power/
=> ↺ https://nader.org/2022/07/16/students-campuses-and-dominant-corporate-power/
=> ↺ gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//nader.org/2022/07/16/students-campuses-and-dominant-corporate-power/
01:08 TR Bot; Students, Campuses and Dominant Corporate Power - Ralph Nader
01:09 TR News; new gimmicks https://staceyoniot.com/qualcomm-launches-wearable-chips-that-may-finally-meet-the-moment/
=> ↺ https://staceyoniot.com/qualcomm-launches-wearable-chips-that-may-finally-meet-the-moment/
01:09 TR Bot; Qualcomm launches wearable chips that may finally meet the moment - Stacey on IoT | Internet of Things news and analysis
01:10 TR News; No https://techxplore.com/news/2022-06-ai-secret-language.html
=> ↺ https://techxplore.com/news/2022-06-ai-secret-language.html
01:10 TR Bot; Do AI systems really have their own secret language?
01:11 TR News; "The Old Computer Challenge V2 is over! What a week! It was even more than a week, as it was from 10th to 17th july included, that was 8 days." https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2022-07-19-old-computer-challenge-v2-ending.html
=> ↺ https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2022-07-19-old-computer-challenge-v2-ending.html
01:12 TR Bot; Solene'% : The Old Computer Challenge V2: done!
01:12 TR News; XFS : Project Update https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mashijams/2022-07-19_gsoc_2022_xfs_project_update/
=> ↺ https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mashijams/2022-07-19_gsoc_2022_xfs_project_update/
01:12 TR Bot; [GSoC 2022] XFS : Project Update | Haiku Project
01:13 TR News; E43: Building Supabase, the Open Source Firebase Alternative https://anchor.fm/ossstartuppodcast/episodes/E43-Building-Supabase--the-Open-Source-Firebase-Alternative-e1ld637
01:13 TR Bot; E43: Building Supabase, the Open Source Firebase Alternative by Open Source Startup Podcast
01:15 matey; /me figures those must be sealed
01:16 matey; Sealed Cases and Documents - United States Courts
01:16 matey; www.insb.uscourts.gov/content/sealed-cases-and-documents
01:16 matey; A sealed document filed in a non-sealed case may only be viewed by certain court users and by the party who filed the document. Access may be given to other users as needed. ...
01:17 matey; another example
01:17 matey; Key document missing from records unsealed in "Painkiller" lawsuit
01:17 matey; www.ilind.net/2020/11/27/key-document-missing-from-records-unsealed-in-painkiller-lawsuit/
01:17 matey; After the Civil Beat Law Center filed its motion asking that the sealed documents be disclosed, the government responded. In general, according to the response filed in court, it did not oppose unsealing of the documents in the case, although more time was requested in order to make any redactions thought to be necessary.
01:17 matey; so an unsealed case can have sealed documents
01:17 phanes; yep looks like todd tried to keep "something" from being sealed. it looks like it's further down.
01:18 matey; and documents which are unsealed by a motion can be redacted which are "thought to be necessary"
01:18 matey; rather as the redactions are thought necessary
01:18 matey; so theres at least three levels of revealing documents to the system
01:19 matey; sealed case, sealed/unsealed document, unsealed+redacted (and presumably unredacted too)
01:19 MinceR; (cat) https://rimgo.bcow.xyz/gallery/40LjHVQ
=> ↺ https://rimgo.bcow.xyz/gallery/40LjHVQ
01:19 TR Bot; Feline Behavior Post- Cats and Hot Weather - rimgo
01:20 phanes; there's quite a bit of content in the defense submission here, but very little when you filter out all the emotional appeals, rhetoric, and non-relevant statements
01:21 phanes; the rest after that is just case precedent citations for why a material contest should not take place (anti-slapp)
01:22 phanes; it could be that the meat comes out later, im still only a few case files in
01:23 matey; this is interesting too, if relevant to anything
01:23 matey; www.publicjustice.net/comes-sealing-court-records-presumption-public-access-requires-just-say-no/
01:23 matey; This is actually a fairly new development in the Ninth Circuit. For years, the Court has recognized a common law right of access to court records. (5) Under the common law, court records can be sealed on a showing of a "compelling need" for secrecy sufficient to overcome the public's interest in access.
01:24 matey; i guess its easier to seal than ever? from a cursory glance at that
01:24 matey; but it could say just the opposite of course
01:25 phanes; yeah its kind of bizarre how they're holding public interest to include "accusing someone of being a rapist with no direct evidence" but also holding it to be excluding things like critical testimony to establish credible merits of a case involving that same interest
01:25 matey; im not even looking to see if these are in the right country, unless it says something like "british" or "co.uk" and thus obviously doesnt pertain to usa
01:26 matey; its possible theyre only sealing certain items that pertain to actual personal privacy
01:26 matey; like the name of a jane doe mentioned somewhere
01:26 phanes; i would hold that to be a matter of publiuc interest as well
01:27 phanes; *public
01:27 matey; of course this nearly implies i have faith in the system-- actually, i simply consider that even a broken system gets something right occasionally
01:27 phanes; for the same reasons that the case files themselves are
01:27 matey; i would hold that to be a matter of publiuc interest as well <- i would expect there to be differences of opinion about this
01:28 matey; public interest i suppose, is everything be public. all sealed documents would be exceptions, based on certain criteria
01:28 matey; so it may be in the public interest, its simply a matter of what criteria are deemed most important for inclusion/exclusion
01:28 matey; which i expect to vary among different people
01:29 matey; its sort of the job of a court to (ultimately) choose a side/verdict or even to choose when not to choose
01:29 phanes; yeah
01:29 DaemonFC; The list of "Debian suicides and accidents" is a bit ridiculous.
01:29 phanes; for the purposes of this i dont see any path forward but to note it and then not factor in sealed testimony or evidence
01:29 DaemonFC; They just follow people around making car accidents happen, apparently.
01:29 matey; but lets say for the sake of argument that it was a decision that tried to balance public interest and corporate interest
01:29 matey; naturally i would assume they side with the corporations (more often than not)
01:29 matey; since those are their real masters
01:30 matey; im not sure whether that relates to this instance but i dont assume it does
01:32 DaemonFC; schestowitz The cops on Grindr thing really cracks me up.
01:33 matey; but to note it and then not factor in sealed testimony <- if i had to guess, they havent sealed any information you couldnt extrapolate from another source
01:33 matey; its a barrier, but a barrier to something that isnt top secret after all
01:33 DaemonFC; Like, if the conversation starts out with or leads to someone you don't know in a chat box on your phone asking if you'd participate in an action that is obviously illegal, why would you talk to them?
01:33 DaemonFC; Why wouldn't you hit "block user" immediately?
01:33 matey; maybe it would lead to another clue, maybe it wouldnt
01:33 matey; at a guess, youre not missing much
01:34 matey; "this is the one piece of information they need to solve the mystery!" "oh, better seal that then! after all, we totally give a shit about these complete strangers on both sides"
01:34 DaemonFC; Interacting with the fake accounts at all is a mistake, because as soon as you do, they'll all start messaging you more.
01:34 DaemonFC; THen you'll have to start blocking dozens of them.
01:34 matey; im being a little cynical, but this (imo) is probably realistic (except for the jokey sarcasm meant to illustrate likelihoods etc)
01:35 DaemonFC; The police accounts usually go for "sex with a minor", but then if they give up, windows will start appearing offering you drugs.
01:35 matey; if this were a corporate case, throw out all benefit of the doubt and assume the fucking worst
01:35 matey; and obvoiusly if you want to factor in 3rd party corporate sponsor/testimony you can do that too. i probably wouldnt, but maybe it depends on the mood im in
01:37 DaemonFC; It's very important that they string you as far along with it as possible before the arrest. The longer you go along with it and with the less prompting, the lower and lower the odds you'll claim entrapment later. Like, they'd say meet up at a Wendy's so that they can throw in more charges (traveling) and show that you did something other than "talk". I've noticed how they operate, and none...
01:37 DaemonFC; ...of that was new with Grindr. They just took what they were doing before and started doing it on Grindr.
01:38 DaemonFC; Their tactics don't really have to change because people now are as stupid as they ever were, maybe more.
01:38 DaemonFC; schestowitz Something really is going on with the "labor market".
01:39 DaemonFC; Probably not what the "news" keeps saying.
01:39 DaemonFC; Taco Bell almost had to close yesterday because it was down to just the manager and one other person and she had to go help make burritos and stuff. She told everyone coming in to use the kiosk or they couldn't order anything because she didn't have anyone to run the register.
01:40 DaemonFC; I doubt they're hiring and "can't find anyone". It's more like, "labor is getting more expensive so now in addition to being the manager and making burritos, you don't have a cashier. Congratulations on the raise!".
01:41 matey; you could easily spend days just reading shit on sealed, unsealed, sealing and unsealing documents at various levels of various courts
01:42 matey; not surprising-- simplicity for a lawyer is like
01:42 phanes; half of reichwein's defense submissions detail twitter posts that reichwein made accusing appelbaum of things, almost like they are anticipating that appelbaum will provide supporting testimoney on todd's behalf
01:42 matey; "i know darth vader really has you annoyed, but remember if you kill him then youll be unemployed"-- weird al,
01:42 matey; yoda"
01:43 matey; almost like they are anticipating that appelbaum will provide supporting testimoney <- i bet that wasnt hard to foresee
01:43 matey; hell it was probably discussed on twitter. these are tech people not lawyers
01:43 matey; and there are probably several impulsive people on both sides
01:44 matey; a less impulsive person would talk to a lawyer, THEN be told "dont say anything now" then actually follow the advice
01:44 phanes; its just bizarre that so many of these supporting evidnece submissions by the defense in a defamation case brought on by todd would be twitter posts by reichwein/lovecruft accusing appelbaum of things, and not todd
01:44 matey; who knows if anyone did any of those. let alone all 3
01:45 matey; "and not todd" <- i dunno, maybe thats how the evidence actually is (proportionally)
01:45 DaemonFC; A good attorney will tell you that if you're the defendant, you don't say anything unless it's through them.
01:45 matey; or maybe some attorney thought that was a great strategy
01:45 schestowitz[TR2]; Probably not what the "news" keeps saying.
01:45 schestowitz[TR2]; an oligarch's noise
01:46 matey; or maybe the todd stuff is exactly what got sealed, while the applelbaum stuff was-- already in public testimony, so sealing it would be like sealing information about nixon being involved with watergate
01:46 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> an oligarch's noise <- whats that
01:46 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
01:46 matey; /mw wonders if it sounds like the model t again
01:47 phanes; matey, tht certainly could be the case. im sure reasons will pop out as references to submissions are made in documents further along in the timeline
01:47 DaemonFC; schestowitz This apartment isn't in the most fantastic neighborhood. There's gang wars going on now. Someone shot one of their muckity mucks at a gas station the other day.
01:47 DaemonFC; 50 years and plenty of humidity and leaky faucets and shit have taken their toll on the unit.
01:47 DaemonFC; But we'll probably sign another lease.
01:47 matey; i bet if you just work around it youll come across exactly the same information without trying
01:47 DaemonFC; I just don't see an alternative that's not worse in some way.
01:48 matey; how youll know its the same information is another matter-- though not important to the point imo
01:48 *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
01:48 DaemonFC; The check engine light on the Buick is on.
01:48 DaemonFC; I'm suspecting there's a vacuum line leak somewhere.
01:48 DaemonFC; I'm gonna have them smoke test it.
01:49 DaemonFC; Well, it came on and went off.
01:49 DaemonFC; The car was telling me check gas cap again. I went through three of them and put an OEM one on finally and it stopped saying that for a few months.
01:49 phanes; it's an old buick, those things run on damned souls anyway, you'll get another 50 years out of it with the CE light on
01:49 DaemonFC; After I filled up this afternoon it hasn't said anything like that again.
01:49 DaemonFC; Yeah, but I can't pass emissions.
01:50 DaemonFC; Maybe I can eek by if it's an occasional problem.
01:50 matey; those things run on damned souls anyway <- i dont think we will hit peak damned souls anytime soon
01:50 DaemonFC; Fuel is more stable in the winter than in the summer.
01:50 phanes; oh are you in one of those states that thinks the right to travel is not a right to travel
01:50 matey; why are the green energy people not touting this
01:50 DaemonFC; Just go get my smog test done in January when the car's not doing it.
01:50 DaemonFC; But if it's something cheap, I'll just go ahead and fix it.
01:50 matey; oh, probably because its their souls too
01:51 DaemonFC; The administration has been demanding more and more of this ethanol 15 stuff.
01:51 DaemonFC; And that's especially unstable in the Summer, which is why they weren't selling it.
01:51 DaemonFC; So if they're sneaking it in on us, it could very well be leaking past the cap and causing the engine lights to come on.
01:52 matey; the primary drain on energy ressources is INVADE ALL THE THINGS!
01:52 matey; increase your tyre pressure-- save some oil-- kill some civilians in a distant land
01:53 matey; an earth day message from the dept of defense
01:54 matey; lower your tyre pressure, starve a drone
01:54 phanes; yeah imagine if they diverted all those defense budgets to building terraforming technology and offworld mining
01:55 matey; lower your tyre pressure, starve a drone <- this wont work, but its kind of funny
01:56 DaemonFC; https://danielpocock.com/ubuntu-underage-girl-debian-mass-resignations/
=> ↺ https://danielpocock.com/ubuntu-underage-girl-debian-mass-resignations/
01:56 TR Bot; Ubuntu Underage Girl & Debian Mass Resignations
01:57 DaemonFC; Is he alleging that they're using the Outreach to Women thing to sex traffic teenage girls?
01:58 matey; :) theres a "yolo" county in davis california
01:58 matey; i bet theres a shitload of dumb people doing dumb shit there
01:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 34.50 k/sec., IPFS upstream 26.06 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
01:59 matey; "welcome to yolo-- home of the tide pod challenge"
01:59 TR News; Kernel prepatch 5.19-rc8 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167613#comment-34424
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167613#comment-34424
02:00 matey; its situation between omg county (a very posh suburb of yolo) and wtf county
02:00 TR News; Delete Windows and get an OS made to actually work for YOU https://www.maketecheasier.com/windows-11-search-bar-not-working/
=> ↺ https://www.maketecheasier.com/windows-11-search-bar-not-working/
02:00 matey; omg county recently had a failed petition to change its name to o...m...g...
02:00 TR Bot; LKML: Linus Torvalds: Linux 5.19-rc8 | Tux Machines
02:00 TR Bot; Windows 11 Search Bar Not Working? Here's 9 Ways to Fix It - Make Tech Easier
02:01 DaemonFC; Mozilla is turning into more and more of a joke all the time.
02:01 schestowitz[TR2]; because talent lkeave
02:01 DaemonFC; Who outsources all of their infrastructure to the company that already killed Netscape and the company that's currently wiping out their only real product?
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; it'as ann inertia thing
02:02 matey; whos ann inertia
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; sorry, typos
02:02 matey; /me checks ao
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; orgs that loise talent
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; and elevate shits
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; drain our all remaining people
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; morale
02:02 DaemonFC; They're putting MDN behind a paywall now.
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; and only the shit stays
02:02 schestowitz[TR2]; a death spiral
02:02 matey; nothing yet https://www.abuseonline.org/database/secondary-actors/Inertia,%20Ann/
=> ↺ https://www.abuseonline.org/database/secondary-actors/Inertia,%20Ann/
02:02 TR Bot; ( status 404 @ https://www.abuseonline.org/database/secondary-actors/Inertia,%20Ann/ )
=> ↺ https://www.abuseonline.org/database/secondary-actors/Inertia,%20Ann/
02:03 DaemonFC; You didn't really need to pay to learn HTML 3.2, or even 4.
02:03 DaemonFC; 3.2 was so simple you could learn it pretty much by looking at the document that defined the standard.
02:03 DaemonFC; Without buying a shitload of expensive books.
02:03 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> orgs that loise talent <- sfc, fsf, yolo...
02:04 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:04 matey; id say osi because bullshit is a talent
02:04 DaemonFC; The idiots that wanted to do "semantic web" stuff in XHTML finally rode again and got it into HTML 5.
02:04 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
02:05 matey; microsoft initiative
02:05 DaemonFC; We're well past Web languages having any clear meaning as to what happens when you go to use something.
02:05 TR News; NuTyX 22.07.0 available with cards 2.5.4 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167615
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167615
02:05 TR Bot; NuTyX 22.07.0 available with cards 2.5.4 | Tux Machines
02:06 DaemonFC; schestowitz I think almost everyone is walking on thin ice these days.
02:06 matey; remember that story where microsoft completely took something over, but then after that it was fine?
02:07 matey; me neither
02:07 DaemonFC; Everyone is in a pissed off mood and just quick to get what they're doing done so they can go home.
02:07 schestowitz[TR2]; DaemonFC: we are doing ok.
02:07 schestowitz[TR2]; because e spend so little
02:07 DaemonFC; The demeanor of the people I run into is really really bad.
02:07 schestowitz[TR2]; btw, what I said about abour orgs collapsing like that
02:07 schestowitz[TR2]; a la mozilla
02:07 schestowitz[TR2]; happened in our company 3 years ago
02:07 schestowitz[TR2]; and I plan to leave by year's end
02:07 DaemonFC; schestowitz Did you have a chance to skim over the Monkeypox post?
02:08 DaemonFC; I was trying to avoid allegations of homophobia, but whenever you touch an issue like this, look out.
02:08 schestowitz[TR2]; I see it in my rss reader now
02:08 schestowitz[TR2]; will readit in a moment
02:08 matey; they should have taken the mission more siriusly
02:08 schestowitz[TR2]; first the urgent stuff, releases...
02:09 schestowitz[TR2]; bulletin cutoff 30 mins
02:09 schestowitz[TR2]; need to hurry
02:09 schestowitz[TR2]; biab
02:09 DaemonFC; People don't need a good reason to attack you over it. I got accused of being an anti-vaxxer the other day and banned from an entire Discord server for saying there was no compelling medical reason to get circumcised.
02:09 schestowitz[TR2]; was working 4 nights ina row (work)
02:09 schestowitz[TR2]; off work now till weds
02:09 DaemonFC; When the topic came up somehow.
02:10 DaemonFC; I have no idea what the fuck is going on with the Gates Foundation doing circumcisions in Africa.
02:10 DaemonFC; It hasn't helped.
02:10 DaemonFC; AIDS is worse than ever and they got at least 12 million people roped in with that, probably more.
02:10 TR News; "Josh and Kurt talk about Microsoft creating a policy of not allowing anyone to charge for open source in their app store" https://opensourcesecurity.io/2022/07/24/episode-333-open-source-is-unfair/ Microsoft are criminals. NEVER LET criminals make the rules!!!!
=> ↺ https://opensourcesecurity.io/2022/07/24/episode-333-open-source-is-unfair/
02:10 TR Bot; Episode 333 Open Source is unfair Open Source Security
02:10 matey; open source eats its own
02:11 matey; usually that pertains to other people, but i suppose it could also refer to an org collapsing
02:11 DaemonFC; No, people who are not even "open source" people come along and start infighting, and then leave and let communities collapse.
02:11 matey; "lets just gnaw on these supporting beams" "sure, why not? they look tasty to me!"
02:11 TR News; How to install Krita on Pop!_OS 22.04 - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=09kjvKMqCrg | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/09kjvKMqCrg
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=09kjvKMqCrg
=> ↺ gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/09kjvKMqCrg
02:11 TR Bot; How to install Krita on Pop!_OS 22.04 - Invidious
02:12 DaemonFC; Mr. GULAG, legend in his own mind, thinks he contributes a lot to that.
02:12 *darwin (~darwin@7d3n498busjrn.irc) has joined #techrights
02:12 DaemonFC; But it's really Microsoft and a paid troll army of people like him.
02:14 DaemonFC; schestowitz I mentioned on my blog that there's only 3-4 Web sites I even use anymore with any frequency.
02:14 DaemonFC; It's gotten this bad.
02:14 DaemonFC; The government gives it away so people get brainwashed and spied on.
02:14 schestowitz[TR2]; same here, except RSS
02:14 DaemonFC; There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
02:14 XRevan86; DaemonFC: Maybe they don't want to admit that their own genitals were operated on for no good reason.
02:14 DaemonFC; Very easy to keep the poors under control.
02:15 DaemonFC; Give away "free" internet so they don't dump it trying to save a little money and start thinking too much.
02:15 TR News; Audiocasts/Shows: GNU World Order, Krita, Microsoft Attacking Free Softare, and More Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167616
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167616
02:15 schestowitz[TR2]; typo
02:16 TR Bot; Audiocasts/Shows: GNU World Order, Krita, Microsoft Attacking Free Softare, and More | Tux Machines
02:16 TR News; Why Wayland Merges Compositing & Window Managers - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=mjNlkcYNTcY | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/mjNlkcYNTcY
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=mjNlkcYNTcY
=> ↺ gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/mjNlkcYNTcY
02:16 TR Bot; Why Wayland Merges Compositing & Window Managers - Invidious
02:17 TR News; "Thoughts on the gay community and Monkeypox as experts recommend vaccination to gay men first. WARNING: This post will be controversial and likely offensive to LGBT people. Im gay myself, and I dont like what Im seeing" https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/07/24/thoughts-on-monkeypox-as-experts-recommend-vaccination-to-gay-men-first-plus-why-monkeypox-is-in-the-media-in-the-first-place/
02:17 TR Bot; Thoughts on Monkeypox as experts recommend vaccination to gay men first. Plus: Why Monkeypox is in the media in the first place. BaronHK's Rants
02:20 matey; protip: if success is the goal, dont give your company "SOS" as initials
02:20 matey; /me doesnt think roy will take it personally if hes out anyway
02:21 matey; if its been like that for 3 years we are already at the cynical stage of things
02:22 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167617
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167617
02:22 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
02:22 TR News; The 4 Best MP3 Tag and Metadata Editors for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167618
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167618
02:22 TR Bot; The 4 Best MP3 Tag and Metadata Editors for Linux | Tux Machines
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02:25 DaemonFC; I found another dangling part of the SeaMonkey GUI left over from a long time ago that does not do anything now.
02:25 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
02:25 *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
02:25 DaemonFC; The address book has an "IM" button and it apparently launched whatever was setup to handle "aim" at one point. :)
02:25 TR News; 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167619
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167619
02:25 TR Bot; 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On | Tux Machines
02:25 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: ^
02:25 TR News; Kate 22.08 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167620
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167620
02:25 TR Bot; Kate 22.08 | Tux Machines
02:28 phanes; matey, no reference to missing exhibits in reichwein motion to strike
02:28 TR News; Morale low, not many people attended at all. Maybe that's what happens when SPI bags bribes from Microsoft and then pays lawyers to take volunteers' sites OFFLINE https://www.debian.org/News/2022/20220724
=> ↺ https://www.debian.org/News/2022/20220724
02:28 TR Bot; Debian -- News -- DebConf22 closes in Prizren and DebConf23 dates announced
02:28 matey; i dont know how that works. maybes its recursive and they seal the motion to seal
02:28 matey; which would be terrible for record keeping but that assumes record keeping is based on the public view, and i bet its not
02:29 matey; though id just assume bet its arbitrary
02:29 matey; also showing WHO motioned to seal seems... telling?
02:29 matey; which in a reasonable world (heh) they WOULD seal as its a big fucking hint (i guess?)
02:29 matey; if i actually knew about this shit, i could do better
02:30 phanes; matey, maybe; the motion references all exhibits present in her testimony but none of the sealed ones, even passively
02:30 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:30 matey; but ive learned at least one thing: sealed doc in an UNsealed case are a thing
02:30 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
02:30 matey; the motion references all exhibits present in her testimony but none of the sealed ones, even passively <- sure, why not
02:31 phanes; im not getting the impression these are sealed but that they were removed before subnmitting and not cleaned up
02:31 TR News; Counterculture should not mean being "weird" but being against an unjust system that mistreats and abuses people
02:32 matey; that sounds really sloppy
02:32 matey; does that happen?
02:32 phanes; yeah anybody sucks at editing documents can do that
02:32 matey; hmm
02:32 matey; news to me
02:32 DaemonFC; https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/07/24/waukegan-man-armed-with-knife-allegedly-threatened-to-kill-family-members-after-finding-his-pizza-had-been-eaten/
02:32 TR Bot; Waukegan man armed with knife allegedly threatened to kill family members after finding his pizza had been eaten
02:33 phanes; its like removing a chapter of content in a book youre writing and forgetting to remove it from the table of contents
02:33 phanes; i can see in the case records motions to seal and they leave a whole for sealed documents so its obvious when the court sealed something
02:33 phanes; these are just simply not present
02:33 phanes; in a document that is present
02:34 TR News; Open Source is NOT a movement. It's NOT just another name/term for Free software. If you think it is, you live decades in the past.
02:34 TR News; Review: EndeavourOS 22.6 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167621
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167621
02:34 phanes; *hole
02:34 TR News; LINMOB.net - Weekly GNU-like Mobile Linux Update (29/2022): postmarketOS 22.06.1 for (PinePhone) Pros Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167622
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167622
02:34 TR News; Programming Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167623
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167623
02:34 TR Bot; Review: EndeavourOS 22.6 | Tux Machines
02:35 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights
02:35 TR Bot; LINMOB.net - Weekly GNU-like Mobile Linux Update (29/2022): postmarketOS 22.06.1 for (PinePhone) Pros | Tux Machines
02:35 TR News; Mobile is pronounced mob aisle, as it's an aisle through which a corporate MOB abuses the supposed 'owner' of the device
02:35 *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@5tcc2vuaj9aks.irc) has joined #techrights
02:36 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines
02:36 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell-social and #techpol IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-social-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-social-240722.txt
=> http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-240722.html
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=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-social-240722.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-social-240722.txt
02:36 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell-social and #techpol @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022
02:37 TR News; Yesterday's #techrights IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techrights-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techrights-240722.txt
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02:37 TR Bot; IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022
02:37 matey; the latest version of gnu parallel is called "roe vs wade" https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/parallel.git
=> ↺ https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/parallel.git
02:37 TR Bot; parallel.git - parallel
02:38 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-240722.txt
=> http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-240722.html
=> http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-240722.txt
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-240722.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-240722.txt
02:38 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022
02:40 TR News; Yesterday's #techbytes IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techbytes-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techbytes-240722.txt
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02:40 TR Bot; IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022
02:40 TR News; | Gemini address:
02:40 TR News; Links 25/07/2022: NuTyX 22.07.0 and Last RC for Upcoming Linux Release | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/24/nutyx-22-07-0/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/24/nutyx-22-07-0/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/24/nutyx-22-07-0/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/24/nutyx-22-07-0/
02:40 TR Bot; Links 25/07/2022: NuTyX 22.07.0 and Last RC for Upcoming Linux Release | Techrights
02:40 schestowitz[TR2]; no wade, roy!
02:40 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167624
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167624
02:40 TR News; Yesterday's bulletin is now ready! : http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2022-07-24.txt | gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/techrights-2022-07-24.txt (tentative address, to work an hour from now)
=> http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2022-07-24.txt
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/techrights-2022-07-24.txt
02:41 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines
02:42 *matey has quit (connection closed)
02:42 TR News; "after almost 3 years of Covid, lockdowns and more." COVID-19 is NOT over, folks. https://laysrodriguesdev.wordpress.com/2022/07/24/im-going-to-akademy-2022/
=> ↺ https://laysrodriguesdev.wordpress.com/2022/07/24/im-going-to-akademy-2022/
02:42 TR Bot; Im going to Akademy 2022 Lays Rodrigues
02:43 TR News; "The second sub-activity of the first activity is swapping the number cards to make consecutive cards 10s complements of each other" https://samarthrajwrites.wordpress.com/2022/07/25/swapping-tens-complement-week-6-7/
=> ↺ https://samarthrajwrites.wordpress.com/2022/07/25/swapping-tens-complement-week-6-7/
02:43 TR Bot; Swapping tens complements: Week 6 & 7 Samarth raj
02:45 *matey (~matey@bh5jyjy7qts7w.irc) has joined #techrights
02:45 matey; http://www.tuxmachines.org/print/167619 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/print/167619
02:45 TR Bot; 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On
02:45 matey; thats an accurate article
02:46 matey; there are no "proven" systemd-free "linux distributions" you can rely on
02:46 matey; and there are none listed
02:46 matey; but the title is wrong
02:46 schestowitz[TR2]; e love alpine
02:46 schestowitz[TR2]; one nice-to-have would be manpages
02:46 schestowitz[TR2]; they're missing by defauslt
02:46 schestowitz[TR2]; default
02:46 matey; well the biggest problem with alpine is the kernel, but i said that already
02:46 schestowitz[TR2]; apk let's you add what's missing
02:46 matey; and i said it wasnt their fault
02:46 schestowitz[TR2]; and cpan
02:47 matey; if the linux kernel is a
02:47 matey; the article lists no distributions-- work in progress?
02:47 matey; oh ok its a link to this https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/
=> ↺ https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/
02:47 TR Bot; 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On
02:48 matey; i looked for that, didnt find it the first time
02:48 matey; hmm
02:48 MinceR; they also keep writing "ID 1" when they mean "PID 1"
02:48 matey; 1. none are alpine 2. ive used three of the 5 3. that does it for me
02:49 matey; void: no | devuan: no | mx: no
02:49 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: id mubarak
02:49 schestowitz[TR2]; MinceR I meant
02:49 matey; accidental hindi?
02:50 matey; roy you just said "id congratulations" more or less
02:50 matey; xrevan can probably correct further
02:51 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: eid
02:51 matey; as he seems to basically be real lifes answer to the star trek universal translator
02:51 schestowitz[TR2]; pid
02:51 schestowitz[TR2]; eid
02:51 schestowitz[TR2]; id
02:51 matey; (other than google and whatever else)
02:52 matey; Nitrux is based on Debians unstable branch <- nope!
02:52 matey; and slackware, which is the entry that offends me the least, but i just cant be arsed
02:52 matey; my associates dont seem to care for it, fwtw
02:52 TR News; "People aged under 40 should not drink alcohol and consumption guidelines should be changed, study says" gemini://midnight.pub/posts/1084
=> ↺ gemini://midnight.pub/posts/1084
02:53 TR News;
02:53 TR News; [cat] gemini://nytpu.com/sneps/D302.jpg
=> ↺ gemini://nytpu.com/sneps/D302.jpg
02:53 TR News; [cat] gemini://nytpu.com/cheetahs/D653.jpg
=> ↺ gemini://nytpu.com/cheetahs/D653.jpg
02:53 matey; i ditched void because (like mx, also listed) its entirely based on github
02:54 TR News; Putting ourselves out of business gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2022-07-24%20Putting%20ourselves%20out%20of%20business
=> ↺ gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2022-07-24%20Putting%20ourselves%20out%20of%20business
02:54 matey; its also just a pain in the fucking arse. but mincer likes it, and hes hard to please, so thats a point for void next to the one against
02:54 MinceR; well, i'm not 100% satisfied with it either
02:55 MinceR; but i haven't found a GNU/Linux distro i like more, unless i count Bedrock, but Bedrock still depends on Void the way i use it
02:55 matey; from you that could be a cash prize
02:55 TR News; "We may have become a bit plant obsessed as of late. This weekend we picked up the following plants for our yard and future garden..." gemini://gemini.cyberbot.space/gemlog/2022-07-24-plants.gmi growing one's own food is commendable!
=> ↺ gemini://gemini.cyberbot.space/gemlog/2022-07-24-plants.gmi
02:55 MinceR; i'll still need to figure out how to produce an initramfs that does the right thing with FDE
02:55 matey; "the mincer test"
02:55 matey; "im not 100% satisfied" SHIP IT!
02:56 matey; "what if he hates it" "then we do another rc, until weve done at least 5, then we ship anyway"
02:56 TR News; "We are hoping to be able to cultivate a nice collection of edibles on our property over time. So far we have 7 different plants that are edible, maybe 8 if you count Hibiscus. Right now the edibles we have are 2 guava trees, 2 varieties of mint, basil, cocoplum, prickly pear, lime and calamondin." gemini://gemini.cyberbot.space/gemlog/2022-07-24-plants.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://gemini.cyberbot.space/gemlog/2022-07-24-plants.gmi
02:57 TR News; As the price of food goes up, so will the incentive to grow one's own food. As the prices of energy soar (scam, cartel, price-fixing, faked shortages, at least partly) efficient devices, inc. computers, will become more attractive. The latter helps GNU/Linux.
02:59 TR News; Ask advices about smartphone changing when you try to remove Google of your life gemini://midnight.pub/posts/1085
=> ↺ gemini://midnight.pub/posts/1085
02:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 34.50 k/sec., IPFS upstream 26.06 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
03:00 TR News; Gulag (or GAFAM) does not enhance your life. Looking up stuff on the Web is no longer search, it's too heavily curated and manipulated. It manipulates YOU.
03:03 matey; https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/
=> ↺ https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/
03:03 TR Bot; 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On
03:03 matey; so heres what i did about systemd
03:03 matey; in 2014, i used debian stable mostly-- and on my main development machine i used testing
03:03 matey; i did an update, rc.local was disabled (but still set executable)
03:03 matey; and nothing told me why
03:04 matey; note that you have to manually respond to something as revolutionary as tzdata updates
03:04 matey; maybe i could have read more, hey, it was testing, but maybe tell me before you disable rc.local with some bullshit
03:05 matey; i think they handled it poorly
03:05 matey; from then it was pretty much "fuck u, n00b" and i had spent some time collecting computers and giving them away for free to promote debian
03:05 matey; i stopped doing that after a couple hours of determining why rc.local mysteriously didnt run on boot
03:06 matey; you see i also helped people with these free computers
03:06 matey; and i knew the minute i saw systemd that this wasnt debian anymore
03:06 matey; debian was a responsible os
03:06 IPFS; Gemini requests since start of month: 259085 total Total number of pages in capsule: 41850 Active: active (running) since Fri 2022-05-27 10:17:06 BST; 1 months 28 days ago
03:06 matey; and this made it a complete pile of shit-- a decision i havent changed since
03:07 matey; it is AGGRESSIVELY a pile of shit, designed to say "fuck you and your mother" to anyone who DOESNT want a pile of shit
03:07 matey; it takes YEARS to try to work around this, for some reason.
03:07 matey; sure you change pid1 back, but its never the same again
03:07 IPFS; IPFS local node stats (bandwidth since last reset) calculated. TotalIn: 13 MB TotalOut: 2.2 MB
03:08 matey; systemd behaves like a permanent injury to any distro it infects the developers of
03:08 matey; devuans had SO MUCH fun un-eating their shit
03:08 matey; but hey, i like a challenge
03:08 IPFS; New daily bulletin is now being generated and assembled.
03:09 matey; in late feb/early march 2015 i installed devuan on my main dev machine
03:09 matey; that was 7 years ago
03:09 matey; oh i was excited about devuan initially
03:09 matey; i gave money, equipment
03:09 matey; tried derivatives, tried to always try the latest version of it
03:10 IPFS; QmWkLbREwUBZdex6qeeh1UyUD3GwnNihMfEE28VhuPZYAK
03:10 IPFS; New daily bulletin has just been added to IPFS, hereon retrievable with the CID above.
03:10 matey; which always sucked more than the pre-alpha roio created in feb 2015
03:10 matey; devuan sucks
03:10 matey; roios "not even trying" version was better
03:10 matey; he was modest as fuck about it. i dont know WTF they did
03:10 matey; i read mailing lists at devuan AND debian endlessly
03:11 matey; ive tried a bunch of devuan derives and i swear, derivs of derivs
03:11 matey; ive tried devuan competitors
03:12 matey; i even remixed debian and live and trisquel live so that they had sysvinit (upstart for trisquel) as pid 1
03:12 matey; in the live image.
03:12 schestowitz[TR2]; devuan did not pick up wifi on myn new laptop
03:12 schestowitz[TR2]; devuan was my first choice
03:12 matey; completely automated-- so that you could redistribute the "distro" as a SCRIPT (hundreds of k) instead of an iso
03:13 matey; but more to the point
03:13 matey; i spent literally half a decade fighting systemd
03:13 matey; and the WHOLE TIME people were saying
03:13 matey; this is hopeless, just use bsd, this will kill gnu/linux
03:13 matey; ive been hearing that since 2014.
03:14 matey; this is from former debian users like myself.
03:14 matey; but when im determined, i put the effort in
03:14 matey; half a decade is long enough to fight a piece of shit like systemd for me
03:14 matey; toward the end i started lamenting that bsd probably wasnt ready
03:15 matey; it wouldnt do what i needed
03:15 matey; but id like to move someday
03:15 matey; eventually i got bored (and ran out of good base distros to remaster into my os of choice)
03:15 matey; and i finally decided to try freebsd
03:15 matey; why freebsd-- the three biggest are free, net, open
03:16 matey; open is the closest to hyperbola, the only fsf-esque bsd project from fsf-blessed devs
03:16 matey; open is what they base hyperbola on
03:16 matey; i saved it for last
03:16 matey; if it didnt work, and i was sure it wasnt ready-- id be sad
03:16 matey; very sad
03:16 MinceR; 25 041244 < schestowitz[TR2]> devuan did not pick up wifi on myn new laptop
03:17 MinceR; they don't ship nonfree firmware in the installer
03:17 MinceR; which is sometimes painful
03:17 matey; openbsd is based on netbsd, so its the next closest
03:17 MinceR; i used to work around this using Wi-Pi
03:17 matey; they don't ship nonfree firmware in the installer <- they did initially
03:17 matey; youre thinking of debian. devuan adds that stuff
03:17 matey; unless this has changed
03:17 MinceR; i thought devuan did the same
03:17 matey; actually centaurian dan, who makes the non-live installer
03:18 matey; demanded that they include those drivers/modules/fw or he refused to work on it
03:18 matey; so thats always been in devuan
03:18 MinceR; :>
03:18 matey; but that also means its less free than debian
03:18 matey; in an rms way
03:19 matey; but yeah copying fw over usb is FUN
03:19 matey; especially since the installer isnt a full live a lot of the time
03:19 matey; and when it is, you have other problems
03:19 matey; fucking debian
03:19 mjg59_; phanes: Again, going to ask you to stop deadnaming people
03:20 matey; <mjg59_> not a joke, when referring to a court document, and not simply in social interactions
03:20 matey; arent there situations where using someones legal name is warranted?
03:20 matey; and why is this not one of them
03:20 mjg59_; matey: Yeah, this is one of them
03:20 matey; in general, i think deadnaming should be avoided for the same reasons you think so
03:21 mjg59_; Eh let me rephrase that
03:21 mjg59_; I think I ended up eliding some nuance there
03:22 matey; /me would rather there be guidelines on this most people can agree on and be happy with, whether or not they are followed
03:22 matey; most people (including those with the deadnames, of course)
03:24 matey; i tried freebsd, and it actually gave me a lot of hope
03:24 matey; at least at first
03:24 matey; i knew it was the farthest (of 3) from what i wanted to actually move to
03:24 mjg59_; "Legal name" isn't a completely solid concept in the US - there's a variety of ways to express names, and there may be inconsistencies there (eg, people may gain addional names for extra-legal reasons - it's not unusual for Catholics to adopt an additional name after confirmation)
03:24 matey; but thats why i tried it first-- if it sucked, no big loss
03:25 matey; <mjg59_> "Legal name" isn't a completely solid concept in the US <- how about the name on the document / case name then
03:25 mjg59_; But the name that is used in court filings does not need to represent what's on someone's birth certificate (eg, a lawsuit against a company may not involve any humans at all)
03:25 phanes; mjg59_, again, it appears to be the legal name of the person we're talking about. if you have a proof of name change, which is a completely solid concept in the US, then I am happy to update. Until then I assume you're just looking for a way to stir a victim profile to your current position of being held accountable.
03:25 phanes; real names will be used on this
03:26 mjg59_; "real names"?
03:26 phanes; yes and i have almost no patience for any squirming around to try to obfuscate the real identies of who is involved
03:27 mjg59_; The name used on a court filing is a name that identifies the individual
03:27 matey; freebsd worked better than i hoped, but not as well as i needed, and even if it DID work as i needed, it was NOT what i wanted (i knew that before installing)
03:27 phanes; mjg59_, that's the name being used
03:27 mjg59_; phanes: Yes, but you're not a court
03:27 matey; but i was having fun, so i tried to install it on more machines
03:27 mjg59_; phanes: And the name is clearly corrected in later filings
03:28 phanes; mjg59_, ive made my position clear on this, evidence of name change, or steam about it
03:28 phanes; mjg59_, in any case, can you comment on who captured this screenshot in exhibit 9: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.20.3.pdf
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.20.3.pdf
03:28 phanes; was that captured from "lovecruft"'s phone?
03:28 mjg59_; phanes: eg, https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf - the court refers to the defendant as Lovecruft
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf
03:28 mjg59_; phanes: You picking a name other than the name the court is perfectly happy to use is a choice on your part
03:28 matey; i wasnt able to get freebsd working equally well on each machine i tried it on
03:29 matey; and even if i did, it wasnt what i wanted
03:29 matey; too close to github
03:29 MinceR; how did freebsd go?
03:29 mjg59_; phanes: I have no idea whatsoever where that was captured from
03:29 matey; usably, but on some machines it didnt install properly
03:29 phanes; mjg59_, how convenient.
03:29 schestowitz[TR2]; MinceR: to Microsoft
03:30 matey; but now the ball was rolling, and freebsd went better than expected, so
03:30 matey; fuck it, lets see if netbsd works better on the machines where freebsd didnt
03:30 matey; netbsd is what openbsd is forked from, and its farther from github than freebsd
03:30 matey; so its the #2 option for me
03:30 matey; in terms of what i tried and in terms of rank
03:31 MinceR; schestowitz[TR2]: i know that, i'm asking about how it worked on the PC(s) it was tested on
03:31 matey; netbsd got me farther than freebsd, and it was closer to what i wanted anyway
03:31 matey; note that im very aware that a different collection of machines could have yielded different results
03:31 matey; its a bit arbitrary, i suppose-- but its what ive got
03:31 phanes; mjg59_, any way to find out?
03:32 phanes; it is a rather pivotal detail
03:32 matey; there was ONE machine i coudlnt coax netbsd onto
03:32 mjg59_; phanes: You could ask them?
03:32 matey; so i bit the bullet and tried openbsd
03:32 matey; it had the least annoying / intricate installer
03:32 phanes; mjg59_, is it an obvious enough thing that you understand why I'm asking?
03:32 mjg59_; phanes: Not really, no
03:32 matey; it worked on the machine that freebsd and netbsd didnt like
03:32 matey; for whatever reason
03:32 matey; on x86 it works REALLY well for me
03:33 phanes; mjg59_, look at the colors and page orientation of the messages
03:33 matey; for sbcs the documentation is terrible and my associates recommend netbsd for that, for now
03:33 matey; at least some do
03:33 matey; id rather use openbsd but if netbsd is easier for someone else on an sbc, it could be true for me
03:34 matey; so netbsd (under protest) for sbcs, i guess
03:34 matey; openbsd for everything else, and ideally everything
03:34 matey; i migrated coming up on 2 years ago
03:34 matey; so 13 years since gnu/linux migration
03:34 mjg59_; phanes: I have no knowledge whatsoever of where those pictures came from
03:34 matey; 5 years fighting systemd
03:34 matey; 2 years since i left gnu/linux behind
03:35 phanes; mjg59_, but i thought you were familiar with the details of this case
03:35 matey; given all that strife
03:35 TR News; LOL. How to destroy GNU/Linux. https://unixcop.com/how-to-install-microsoft-powershell-on-ubuntu-22-04/
=> ↺ https://unixcop.com/how-to-install-microsoft-powershell-on-ubuntu-22-04/
03:35 mjg59_; phanes: But I am aware that you continue to deadname a trans person
03:35 TR Bot; How to install Microsoft PowerShell on Ubuntu 22.04 - Unix / Linux the admins Tutorials
03:35 matey; when someone says "here are 5 systemd-free distros"
03:35 phanes; mjg59_, ive made my position clear on this, evidence of name change, or steam about it
03:35 matey; its like looking for a light and someone offering me a couple pieces of flint
03:35 phanes; i dont care at all about your perception of "deadnaming" until I see any evidence at all that their legal name has changed
03:35 matey; been there, done that, no thanks
03:36 matey; ive done all the lion-taming i care to with gnu/penguinshit
03:36 phanes; mjg59_, if you would like to provide that evidence, even in private, i can update
03:36 mjg59_; phanes: You have a court order in which a judge uses their actual name, and that's insufficient?
03:36 matey; i longed to be rid of it, im rid of it, im happy
03:36 matey; it would be like going back to a shitty ex
03:36 matey; but man, i did try.
03:36 matey; i tried my fucking arse off
03:37 matey; so did devuan and im not sure how much they have to show for it
03:37 matey; bragging rights, sure
03:37 mjg59_; phanes: I mean, a court using that name seems to indicate that it's their name
03:37 TR News; Windows Defender. LOL. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/775003/been-battling-malware-for-over-a-year-6-laptops-2-desktops-1-phone/
03:37 TR Bot; Been battling malware for over a year 6 laptops 2 desktops 1 phone... - Virus, Trojan, Spyware, and Malware Removal Help
03:37 matey; but imo theyre not improving as fast as systemd/linux gets worse
03:37 phanes; nice distraction though
03:38 phanes; from being asked why you suddenly aren't familiar with the details of the case
03:38 matey; so can i recommend gnu/linux to anyone?
03:38 matey; i thought "maybe its easier to install / user"
03:38 matey; which it is, a bit
03:38 TR News; Who does Windows Defender defend? The same company that 'Secure(TM)' boots protects... from competition
03:38 matey; im starting to treat gnu/linux like i did with windows
03:38 matey; use it, fine, but if you want me to help install bsd of some kind
03:38 mjg59_; phanes: I'm familiar with the details of the case. I wasn't given additional insight into non-public information.
03:39 mjg59_; phanes: But, again, why are you objecting to using a name that a federal court was fine using?
03:39 matey; i consider gnu/linux a formerly great os with a kernel that exists to help bring free software down from the inside
03:39 phanes; mjg59_, i mean, here we have your fiance submitting evidence, a screenshot of a text message conversation presumably from her phone, that appears to have been captured from the wrong phone, one that would not have been in her possession if her account was accurate
03:40 mjg59_; phanes: and now you're misgendering them
03:40 matey; so if people cant get away from gnu/linux, ok, i understand. been there
03:40 phanes; and you, being intimately familiar with both the party and the case
03:40 matey; they can wait like i waited
03:40 phanes; just suddenly don't know anything about it
03:40 phanes; s/her/they/
03:40 matey; but if theyre looking for better things
03:40 matey; start trying to get bsd running now
03:40 matey; when i moved to gnu/linux it was xubuntu and dsl. NOT the best of the best
03:41 matey; same with bsd.
03:41 mjg59_; phanes: Cool if you're willing to accept their gender then maybe you can also accept their name?
03:41 matey; usage != acceptance
03:41 matey; theres overlap, a lot
03:41 mjg59_; Well sure ok he may have issues with acceptance but usage would be fine
03:41 phanes; mjg59_, do you also forget pivotal details when you yourself are caught in a lie, or do you only do it when you're covering for someone
03:41 mjg59_; phanes: Hard to forget something I never knew
03:42 phanes; seems like it would be trivial for you to get clarification
03:42 phanes; as to the name, until i see evidence of a legal name change there will simply not be an update to the name
03:42 mjg59_; phanes: Eh well I tried
03:42 TR News; zine-making, and the benefits it provides (in my eyes) gemini://tmo.smol.pub/1658707407
=> ↺ gemini://tmo.smol.pub/1658707407
03:43 phanes; mjg59_, no you postured. that's different.
03:43 matey; /me picks up the red phone
03:43 mjg59_; Going to be plenty of evidence of you refusing to call a trans person by their proper name
03:43 matey; "yeah, i know"
03:43 TR News; Re: Gemlog and internet time gemini://eph.smol.pub/1658708695
=> ↺ gemini://eph.smol.pub/1658708695
03:43 phanes; mjg59_, and plenty of evidence requesting evidence of a legal name change. I'm not doing nicknames.
03:44 phanes; mjg59_, what you're confused about is that you think your usual tricks will work with me, and it's going to keep jamming you up.
03:44 phanes; mjg59_, you're not my first rodeo and you're not even one of the very hard ones.
03:45 phanes; in any case, if you want to clarify either of these issues (name change + source of screenshot) I'm happy to receive the clarification for accuracy's sake
03:45 mjg59_; phanes: Oh gosh you think I'm the person who'll be your problem here
03:45 phanes; nope
03:46 phanes; im ready for that too
03:46 phanes; you're not my first rodeo, matt. get smart.
03:48 DaemonFC; "Don't fuck with me fellas! This ain't mah first time at the rodeo!"
03:48 phanes; fo sho'
03:48 phanes; Or you and your little posse can continue to underestimate me and save me an enormous amount of work in the process.
03:48 matey; phanes: its too bad you took down the patteron information
03:48 matey; it looked useful, i even found it helpful-- as a fan of patterson trying to understand her position on these things
03:48 phanes; matey, patteron information?
03:48 phanes; oh i still have that its just in incubation
03:48 matey; in the db-- its gone (or moved to backlog)
03:49 matey; what i was going to ask is
03:49 britney; matey, what does freebsd have to do with github?
03:49 matey; britney: its where some of their stuff is maintained-- including the package manager
03:49 matey; a lot of it is only a mirror.
03:49 matey; of the following: freebsd, netbsd, openbsd
03:49 matey; openbsd is the farthest from github: true mirror only
03:50 matey; netbsd is second farthest: it uses gh for donations
03:50 matey; freebsd is the closest to github
03:50 matey; if the goal is to get as far from github as possible
03:50 matey; thats when this information becomes instructive
03:50 matey; if thats not the goal, im not sure how much it matters
03:50 matey; takeover canary?
03:51 matey; my goal is to get away from github. its not my only goal, but ive been working on it since msft purchased them
03:51 britney; fair enough
03:51 matey; its INSANE that microsoft isnt optional to free software users
03:52 matey; i mean, you could mirror everything and lfs
03:52 matey; closest thing i know to this is-- voila, openbsd
03:52 matey; openbsd also has the distinction of being the most forkable modern os i know
03:52 matey; linux isnt. gnu isnt.
03:53 matey; if you said "i, britney, will fork an entire modern os this year"
03:53 matey; id advise you to use openbsd, because anything else will either be more difficult
03:53 phanes; that's a stupid amount of work
03:53 matey; or even less mainstream than openbsd
03:53 phanes; getting a bootable OS at all is tons of work, maintaining an entire os fork is just not possible for one person
03:53 matey; that's a stupid amount of work <- so is doing quantum experiments on cats without peta trying to murder you
03:54 matey; but there are other purposes besides ACTUALLY doing it
03:54 MinceR; question is, can i fix openbsd
03:54 matey; thats a fair question
03:54 matey; a fork implies you can maintain it
03:54 matey; and for something as big and complex as openbsd
03:54 matey; "you" would have to be a number of people
03:54 matey; but a smaller number than for gnu/linux
03:54 matey; and if you mean you as in your personal workload
03:55 matey; that of course, is fair too
03:55 matey; so it may not be ready enough for you
03:55 MinceR; well, at least with openbsd, there's a good chance upstream will accept my fixes
03:55 MinceR; and then the workload is a lot lower
03:55 matey; rather my goal is to find the most forkable os in the broadest practical sense
03:55 matey; which means some people wont have their needs met by it
03:55 matey; there's a good chance upstream will accept my fixes <- a better chance
03:56 matey; with linux theres a better chance imo of them making it worse
03:56 matey; weve reached peak linux (quality)
03:56 matey; maybe not peak adoption, but peak quality
03:56 matey; from here, :P
03:57 matey; when im migrating to an os-- be it gnu, bsd, whatever
03:57 phanes; mjg59_, so tell me who's going to be a problem for me? no doubt some of your activist friends you're coordinating a pile-on with eh?
03:57 matey; i want the os that works with most of the software and hw i need
03:57 matey; but once ive migrated
03:57 phanes; <mjg59_> phanes: Oh gosh you think I'm the person who'll be your problem here <--- ref
03:57 matey; i want the software and hardware that works best with the os ive chocsen
03:57 matey; neither "mode" is 100% over the other
03:57 matey; but one is predominant and nearly 100% over the other
03:58 mjg59_; phanes: I'm just saying that deliberately deadnaming someone undermines the claim that you're engaged in the persuit of justice
03:58 matey; people in the pre-migration stage often have more "needs" than they have once theyve migrated
03:58 matey; thats why i spent so many years moving to gnu/linux
03:58 matey; i was moving all my tasks from one to the other
03:58 matey; including the ones id never need again
03:58 matey; because how would i know
03:58 phanes; mjg59_, well, no you're saying that (1) there will be a problem for me and (2) it won't be from you, implying that it will be from someone else. Who is that someone else?
03:59 mjg59_; phanes: It's an indiciation to the people that you seek to turn against me that you're not actually on their side
03:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 148.10
03:59 mjg59_; phanes: The people who are pro-deadnaming already hate me
03:59 matey; id already moved all my programming to gnu/linux BEFORE i learned python
03:59 matey; python would have made that a fuck of a lot easier
04:00 mjg59_; phanes: So if you actually want to change public opinion against me, appearing to be on their side isn't going to do much for you
04:00 phanes; mjg59_, "deadnaming" is only "deadnaming" if it's their legal name not being used. Not using someone's nickname in a formal publication about legal proceedings and serious public interest matters is not that.
04:00 mjg59_; phanes: You can certainly hold that opinion, but nobody that actually matters agrees with you
04:00 phanes; mjg59_, oh so "the little people" will be the only ones who agree eh?
04:01 phanes; in any case, it sounds like you're trying to rehash that old "we are the real victims here" approach that's worked out so well for you so far
04:01 phanes; classic darvo
04:01 matey; the definition of deadnaming absolutely includes what mjg is talking about
04:02 matey; the question is when is it reasonable (if ever) to deadname
04:02 phanes; it's not inappropriate to use someone's legal name
04:02 schestowitz[TR2]; keeping track opf people who change name
04:02 matey; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadnaming <- wikipedia is never wrong
=> ↺ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadnaming
04:02 TR Bot; Deadnaming - Wikipedia
04:02 schestowitz[TR2]; as past words/actions matter
04:02 phanes; especially when covering issues of public interest
04:02 schestowitz[TR2]; misnomers don't help either
04:02 DaemonFC; https://wgntv.com/news/trending/woman-blames-social-media-trend-after-would-be-thieves-attempt-to-steal-kia-by-exploiting-security-flaw/
04:02 TR Bot; Woman blames social-media trend after would-be thieves attempt to steal Kia by exploiting security flaw | WGN-TV
04:02 britney; phanes, its inappropriate if the court uses their new name
04:02 schestowitz[TR2]; like misnaming people or the practice
04:02 schestowitz[TR2]; "dead"
04:02 mjg59_; phanes: What's your basis for asserting that it's not their legal name?
04:03 mjg59_; phanes: A federal court used that name
04:03 schestowitz[TR2]; to connect the past to the present sometimes you deal with multiple names, as do authorities
04:03 DaemonFC; Calling people by their legal name isn't a crime.
04:03 DaemonFC; Nor is making up a name to parody them with, such as Mr. GULAG.
04:03 mjg59_; phanes: I mean literally the US government used that name
04:03 mjg59_; phanes: So what definition are you working on here?
04:03 phanes; mjg59_, the fact that the court has submitted several summons and documents using the reichwein name as well as submissions and the findings of private investigators by the plaintiff in that same case
04:03 MinceR; 25 045603 < matey> with linux theres a better chance imo of them making it worse
04:04 mjg59_; phanes: There's no requirement that court filings be made under a "legal name"
04:04 matey; phanes: fwiw, a court document that uses your "new" name may suffice as proof of name change. ianal.
04:04 MinceR; well, with linux, some of the fixes would go against dogma (removing the CoC, for example) and others would go against the wishes of their new overlords (removing MICROS~1 and NSA crap, for example)
04:04 mjg59_; phanes: The court will accept filings that identify people in an unambiguous manner
04:04 schestowitz[TR2]; xi, akademi, blackwater
04:04 matey; but people change their names in courtrooms
04:04 schestowitz[TR2]; xi: stop deadnaming me!
04:04 matey; its extremely common in new hampshire
04:04 schestowitz[TR2]; meta: stop calling me facebnook!!
04:05 schestowitz[TR2]; alphabet: stop calling kme gulag
04:05 phanes; https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.14.0.pdf
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.14.0.pdf
04:05 MinceR; > wikipedia is never wrong
04:05 MinceR; lol
04:05 phanes; this is pretty cut and dry, and is a distraction from the material issues, which I"ve found to be a common pattern with this
04:05 matey; lol <- thats my (nearly) standard disclaimer when i "cite" wp in a remotely serious context
04:05 MinceR; blackwater jinping
04:06 mjg59_; phanes: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf is one written by the actual judge
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf
04:06 schestowitz[TR2]; wikipedia is brigades, just like social control media
04:06 schestowitz[TR2]; russia bans wikipedia
04:06 matey; if your going to make a joke about something tedious and its going to be a running joke
04:06 schestowitz[TR2]; it feelt unfairly treated
04:06 DaemonFC; mjg59_phanes: There's no requirement that court filings be made under a "legal name"
04:06 schestowitz[TR2]; which is likely partly true
04:06 matey; it needs to be short, sweet and probably deadpan
04:06 schestowitz[TR2]; on political issues
04:06 phanes; here's one filed by the actual defense atttorney: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.17.0.pdf
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.17.0.pdf
04:06 DaemonFC; In which case, it is insufficient proof that you should use that name.
04:07 phanes; i see a strong case for both sides on this. im going to have to see some evidence of a legal name change.
04:07 matey; i see a strong case for both sides on this. im going to have to see some evidence of a legal name change.
04:07 phanes; until then, name stays as is
04:07 matey; me too
04:07 matey; except im going to suggest again that using your "new" name in a court documnt
04:08 matey; is basically one legal way to change your "legal name"
04:08 matey; and thats not tongue in cheek
04:08 schestowitz[TR2]; to link an individual states constantlyu ask about past names
04:08 matey; id like more evidence of this, really, but i think it might be accurate
04:08 schestowitz[TR2]; the state is not deadnaming, it just needs to know who's who
04:08 schestowitz[TR2]; and it's also why name changes are so hard bureaucratically
04:08 MinceR; (though blackwater renamed itself to xe, not xi)
04:09 phanes; i was adopted as a kid and had to jump through many hoops to get my name fixed many times
04:09 mjg59_; phanes: Yeah the initial defence filing has to respond to the name in the intial filing
04:09 matey; it just needs to know who's who <- should i ask mjg what name they use on their license?
04:09 schestowitz[TR2]; adding phd to your passport is easy
04:09 mjg59_; matey: Oh, I don't have a license in this country
04:09 schestowitz[TR2]; you just show proof
04:09 schestowitz[TR2]; but changes to anything in the name is harder
04:09 matey; <mjg59_> matey: Oh, I don't have a license in this country <- not yours, your fiancees
04:09 phanes; mjg59_, i care only to the extent of accuracy, you know what i would need and have refused to provide it so far
04:09 mjg59_; matey: Eh you'd have to ask them
04:10 mjg59_; phanes: You're asserting that a name that is acceptable to a federal court is not acceptable to you
04:10 mjg59_; phanes: You can definitely make that choice
04:10 TR News; #Techrights Bulletin for Sunday, July 24, 2022 http://techrights.org/txt full archive: http://techrights.org/txt-archives #gnu #linux #freesw #plaintext
=> http://techrights.org/txt
=> http://techrights.org/txt-archives
04:10 TR Bot; Bulletin Archives
04:10 mjg59_; I can't stop you
04:10 TR News; #Techrights full #IPFS index updated just now http://techrights.org/ipfs available as plain text @ http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt #dweb #sharing
=> http://techrights.org/ipfs
=> http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt
04:10 TR Bot; Techrights Full IPFS Index
04:10 phanes; mjg59_, i am asserting that the legal name will be used, and that i currently believe the legal name to be reichwein
04:10 mjg59_; phanes: What research have you done into the legal name?
04:10 phanes; mjg59_ what contrary proof have you offered that isn't countered by the same dataset it came from?
04:11 matey; im happy to try to research this
04:11 matey; im certainly curious enough
04:11 mjg59_; phanes: I've offered nothing. Why do you believe that one name in this set of documents is a "legal name" and that another isn't?
04:11 britney; mjg59_, phanes is just going to use "legal name" as justification to be transphobic
04:11 schestowitz[TR2]; there are many reasont o change name
04:11 schestowitz[TR2]; e.g. marriage
04:11 schestowitz[TR2]; but for taxes and stuff it's important to link to past identities
04:11 schestowitz[TR2]; some terrorists changes their names
04:11 matey; www.findlaw.com/family/marriage/how-to-legally-change-your-name.html
04:11 matey; Petition to change your name by filling out a name change form, an order to show cause for legally changing your name, and a decree to legally change your name. Take these forms to the court clerk and file them along with your state's required filing fees. In most cases, a judge or magistrate will review your forms and grant the name change.
04:11 schestowitz[TR2]; for immigratioin pourposes
04:12 schestowitz[TR2]; and some people change names cause they hate themselves and want to start overt
04:12 MinceR; porpoises
04:12 schestowitz[TR2]; the states still need to link the chain of name changes
04:12 matey; www.legalzoom.com/articles/how-to-change-your-name
04:12 matey; If you want to change your name for reasons other than those related to marriage or divorce, the legal name change process usually involves first filing a petition with the court. You may also have to attend a hearing and show cause for your name change request. If your petition is granted, the court will enter a decree with your new name.
04:12 phanes; schestowitz[TR2], they do, and its usually public record. this is to prevent fugitives from moving to another state and assuming an alias
04:12 schestowitz[TR2]; name changes can also be used to thwart harassment or to start harassing people
04:12 matey; ^ what if this has basically happened already?
04:13 matey; namechange.uslegal.com/name-changes-laws-by-state/
04:13 matey; In the United States, a legal name change can be obtained through a court order and any US citizen has the right to change his/her name through either common law or court procedure. A person may change his/her name at will and operate a business, write a book, or even sue someone under a different name.
04:13 matey; "A person may change his/her name at will and operate a business, write a book, or even sue someone under a different name."
04:13 mjg59_; phanes: ie, what evidence do you have that no legal name change had occurred before this case was filed?
04:13 phanes; mjg59_, you are asking to prove a negative; the burden of proof is on you
04:14 phanes; if you dispute, refute
04:14 mjg59_; phanes: Your argument is "A said (a), and B said (b). A said it first, so I believe A"
04:14 matey; mjg: are they a resident of california? im only asking for checking the laws on name changes
04:14 matey; which are by state
04:14 schestowitz[TR2]; twitter once suspending me for pointing out that one person who was harassing wikileaks changed names and kept doing it with the new name
04:14 schestowitz[TR2]; *suspeneded for a day
04:14 mjg59_; matey: I live in California, you can infer what you will from that
04:14 phanes; i think thou doest protest too much though at this point, and this really points to you trying to make an issue to stir the normies like britney into thinking its some kind of transphobic position instead of a technical accuracy and insistence on legal names
04:14 matey; fair enogh
04:15 matey; /me doesnt consider britnet a normie
04:15 matey; britney even
04:15 phanes; if it were a truth-backed position he'd have just linked to the legal name change papers instead of all this victim posturing
04:15 matey; i think she already had her own position
04:15 britney; phanes, im a legal professional and i can tell you that a transgender persons assumed name is allowed by courts in canada
04:15 mjg59_; phanes: Given two names used in the case, you've decided that one is a "legal name"
04:16 phanes; mjg59_, yes based on the plaintiff's PI findings
04:16 mjg59_; phanes: You have not shown or linked to any legal documents supporting that assertion
04:16 phanes; they literally hired a private investigator to find this out
04:16 phanes; sure i have
04:16 mjg59_; phanes: The PI literally died
04:16 matey; lied or died?
04:16 mjg59_; Unfortunate situation, but perhaps he wasn't at his best
04:17 matey; died
04:17 mjg59_; matey: Died - had a heart attack
04:17 phanes; that really sucks
04:17 mjg59_; Maybe it compromised the quality of his work? Who knows.
04:17 phanes; in the meantime, let me know when you find that legal name change doc, you can submit privately and expect confidence if you desire it.
04:17 britney; mjg59_, it literally costs phanes nothing, $0, to use the assumed name and he is doubling down on using a legal name because that is what transphobes do
04:17 matey; https://namechange.uslegal.com/name-changes-laws-by-state/california-name-change-law/
=> ↺ https://namechange.uslegal.com/name-changes-laws-by-state/california-name-change-law/
04:17 TR Bot; California Name Change Law Name Change
04:17 mjg59_; britney: Yup
04:18 phanes; britney, it wont work
04:18 mjg59_; britney: I mean, I wouldn't say "assumed name" in this case
04:18 britney; phanes, it costs you nothing to use the assumed name
04:18 phanes; britney, i will use legal names for all entries and i will never, ever move from that
04:18 britney; phanes, how do you know which name is the legal name?
04:18 mjg59_; phanes: well, in that case you've already fucked up
04:19 phanes; so you call me racist or transphobic or whatever demonization device you want to use, and I'll keep using the legal name, which can be updated when i see evidence of a name change.
04:19 britney; phanes, can you provide evidence to back up your assertion that the name you are using is the legal name?
04:20 phanes; britney, its literally in the PI's findings and on several court documents in that same set. im not going to argue about this anymore, the name stays until someone provides a credible refutation involving actual evidence of a name change
04:20 mjg59_; britney: He can't, because it's not true
04:20 phanes; i have already literally linked to it several times (and several instances) in this discussion
04:20 phanes; now you're just lying
04:20 phanes; and its not going to work
04:20 mjg59_; I guess he'll assert that I defamed him by saying that he refuses to use someone's legal name
04:21 mjg59_; phanes: Sorry, which statement are you asserting is a lie?
04:21 matey; I FOUND IT
04:21 phanes; no what you're trying to do is exploit people in the same way you exploit people in your other defamations
04:21 mjg59_; phanes: I just want to be certain what factual claim you're making about me
04:21 matey; myfamilylaw.com/library/common-law-name-change/
04:21 matey; The federal courts have ruled again and again that changing your name at will or, by "common law" is every citizen's right under the U.S. Constitution. Using this "common law rule," you can change your name without even going to court. Technically, you only need to begin using your chosen name to assume it - and can do so legally.
04:21 mjg59_; phanes: I mean, you wouldn't want to accidentally defame me
04:21 matey; isis lovecruft imo is a legal name. imo.
04:21 phanes; mjg59_, the pattern is well documented here: https://www.abuseonline.org/database/Garrett,%20Matthew/2022-07-16/
=> ↺ https://www.abuseonline.org/database/Garrett,%20Matthew/2022-07-16/
04:21 TR Bot; TAODB
04:22 matey; -> The federal courts have ruled again and again that changing your name at will or, by "common law" is every citizen's right under the U.S. Constitution. <-
04:22 phanes; matey, that's actually not true when you go to get a driver's license or a job
04:22 matey; using it in a court document should count imo
04:22 mjg59_; phanes: You literally just said I was lying
04:22 mjg59_; phanes: All I'm asking is that you explain how I lied
04:23 phanes; <mjg59_> britney: He can't, because it's not true <--- this was the lie
04:23 matey; why would the dmv or employer be more important in determining "legal" name than the federal gov
04:23 phanes; i have already literally linked to it several times (and several instances) in this discussion <--- this is where i explained why its a lie
04:23 mjg59_; phanes: What evidence do you have that I'm lying?
04:23 matey; employers have illegal requirements, they shouldnt count here
04:23 mjg59_; phanes: You admit that you may not have seen the complete set of evidence
04:23 matey; and why is the dmv the highest court of the land on this, because theyre the biggest pain in the arse about it?
04:23 phanes; yeah this just isn't going to work on me
04:24 mjg59_; phanes: So perhaps the situation is simply that I'm better informed than you?
04:24 matey; i think my question is fair. the difference is, im doing this for educational purposes (including mine)
04:24 mjg59_; matey: Yeah I'd say that a federal court is above the California DMV
04:24 matey; britney is doing this out of sincerity
04:24 phanes; mjg59_, no the situation is that you're a liar, and you're trying to find a way to tug at the heart strings of people with fictitious insults
04:24 matey; and mjg is, to be fair-- doing it for whatever reason(s) he does
04:24 phanes; mjg59_, as was documented previously in the TAODB entries about you
04:24 matey; <mjg59_> matey: Yeah I'd say that a federal court <- yeah but youre a leftist. phanes may be a states law guy
04:25 phanes; it's a pattern of behaviour with strong documented precedent
04:25 mjg59_; phanes: If people read your claims that I'm a liar and thought less of me as a result, that sounds like it might be defamatory?
04:25 matey; i still think dmv as high court choice is peculiar
04:25 britney; phanes, im both a legal professional and a transgender woman, i can tell you that insisting to use a "legal name" instead of the persons own chosen name is illegal in canada
04:25 matey; which proves nothing about usa except providing context (for consideration)
04:25 phanes; britney, i will keep an eye out for a letter from the royal mounts
04:25 mjg59_; phanes: I mean, assuming I'm not a liar (if I am, then obviously you have a defence)
04:26 matey; no comment
04:27 phanes; mjg59_, yes, you are not only a liar, but a habitual liar that has been caught several times in this process
04:27 mjg59_; phanes: I'm more than happy for you to continue to provide evidence that you made claims with actual malice
04:27 phanes; mjg59_, won't work
04:28 britney; phanes, using a transgender persons correct pronouns and name reduce suicide ideation. so one could logically assume that you're increasing suicide risk by not using their proper gender pronouns and name.
04:28 mjg59_; I'll admit that I'm arguably a public figure here so mere negligence is inadequate, but you're doing a wonderful job of fulfilling that prong
04:28 matey; on a related note, the dmv may be violating the cosntitutional rights of trans individuals
04:28 phanes; you victim-stance all you want, it just will not work on me
04:29 phanes; i am outraged that you have been able to do this to so many people with impunity but my goal is truth-finding; me not liking you while I do it is a natural consequence of you being a dirtbag, that doesn't imply malice
04:29 matey; my sincerest feeling abot this is that phanes made an argument for what hes doing and we made a better one for doing something different
04:29 matey; however
04:29 mjg59_; You've already established that you're not interested in the truth, merely your idea of the truth
04:30 matey; this is based on information i didnt even have a few hours ago
04:30 phanes; nor does using the legal name of someone linked with you despite your effort to draw their behaviour away from their real name
04:30 mjg59_; phanes:
04:30 matey; what if this ISNT about evasion
04:30 mjg59_; phanes: Look the name they use is extremely public
04:30 mjg59_; phanes: You're choosing to use a name that's not actually linked to anything they do
04:30 phanes; if it were a matter of there being a legal name change having taken place, you'd have supplied it and we'd be moving on, but you're going to try to spin it as some kind of social issue to try to garner supporters, and it'll backfire on you
04:31 matey; if it were a matter of there being a legal name change having taken place <- i think i established that in EVERY COURT below the dmv fwiw
04:31 mjg59_; phanes: If that were my concern I'd be more than happy for you to continue using a name that's not linked to their work or identity or anything
04:32 matey; what isis did regarding their name is an established constitutional right. tbh that should count
04:32 phanes; im not worried about it
04:32 phanes; moving on
04:32 matey; its just that
04:32 matey; if it were a matter of there being a legal name change having taken place <-
04:32 matey; but okay
04:32 mjg59_; phanes: So your fixation on using their deadname really does come across as something other than an interest in justice
04:33 matey; i think hes confused about the actual legality, like this is some kind of trick
04:33 phanes; no, that's just the dumber, weaker argument you fabricated on my behalf when you found yourself unable or unwilling to address the position i actually made
04:33 britney; mjg59_, its just a way to continue being transphobic while at the same time trying to appear like thats not the case because its "the legal name."
04:33 mjg59_; matey: Yeah I mean everyone knows that isis worked for tor and is engaged to me and was harrassed by the FBI and so on, the deadname he's choosing to use doesn't tie them to anything that actually makes me look bad
04:34 phanes; sounds like a point that the goal isn't to make you lkook bad but to get the truth out, and that you're super butthurt for being exposed as a serial defamer
04:34 matey; at least mjgs name didnt change
04:34 mjg59_; matey: But he's also so convinced that I'm Bad, he can't imagine a situation where I'd try to prevent my fiance being deadnamed because I care about my fiance
04:35 matey; mjg: personally i think you have a turd for a moral compass. and i think phanes has a better one. its just that in this instance
04:35 matey; i think your stance on naming is more correct, and that counts for something too.
04:36 phanes; i am not movable on this without evidence
04:36 matey; and i think phanes has a better one. <- i know less about him and could be WAY off of course
04:36 matey; he could be literally satan for all i know
04:36 matey; or worse, clinton
04:36 britney; phanes, you called me Britney without any evidence I've had a name change
04:36 phanes; britney, that's because this is a social interaction and not a publication
04:36 matey; phanes, you called me Britney without any evidence I've had a name change <- which is actually evidence hes NOT transphobix
04:36 matey; just that hes adamant about this exception to using a prferred name
04:37 matey; even if its for reasons weve helped to debunk imo
04:37 mjg59_; matey: Eh. I think my moral compass is not necesarily differently aligned, but we come to different conclusions
04:37 matey; i didnt set out to go either way with this. i was happy to see which way truth (and reason) went on it
04:37 phanes; britney, if you had been a serial defamer and were being exposed on the site, or researched for inclusion on the site your real name would be what was used, but, in a social interaction, ive been very clear that a person's nickname should be used as a courtesy
04:38 phanes; mjg59_, can you describe a time when you did something that hurt someone and felt bad about it?
04:39 mjg59_; phanes: I can! If you're a licensed therapist and work for reasonable rates I might even talk to you about it
04:39 phanes; mjg59_, not a blanket "I can" but I mean a specific event
04:39 phanes; and if youve talked to a therapist you know why im going specific
04:40 mjg59_; phanes: I refer you to my previous answer
04:40 phanes; i didn't think you could
04:40 phanes; i wont tell you why that's important because it'll teach you how to be yourself without being undetected in more situations
04:40 phanes; *without being detected
04:40 matey; i have a more hypothetical one, just for fun i guess
04:41 mjg59_; phanes: Me telling you anything about previous situations in which I've hurt someone involves me telling you about someone else, and in the absence of you having any professional obligation to keep things secret I'm not going to tell you about them
04:41 mjg59_; phanes: Any information you could obtain from me in that discussion could be used to hurt other people. I simply don't trust you.
04:41 matey; mjg what would you do if we proved (as unlicensed internet geeks, i dont know what kind of proof we can offer) that you were a sociopath
04:41 matey; would it matter?
04:42 mjg59_; matey: It would
04:42 mjg59_; matey: I've sought therapy as a result of online discussions
04:42 matey; can you think of anything you might do about such a situation?
04:42 phanes; sociopaths can emulate empathy to meet a goal
04:42 mjg59_; matey: If people presented me with a good argument, I'd definitely seek further help
04:42 matey; <mjg59_> matey: I've sought therapy as a result of online discussions <- about 100% of my interest in that-- which IS piqued by the way
04:43 matey; is from you bringing it up.
04:43 phanes; so can narcissists, in fact its common with NPD
04:43 matey; sociopaths can emulate empathy to meet a goal <- i can think of a great example of this (the good side of it) but out of consideration of that person i wont use a name here
04:43 mjg59_; matey: I've had Gamergate spend time focused on destroying me, and that was definitely something where I spent time questioning whether some of the accusations were accurate
04:43 matey; that is to say any name at all
04:44 mjg59_; matey: It's also something that's fallen out of some online discussions about transphobia, and whether I was sincere or whether I was just trying to be protective of people I wanted to care about me
04:44 matey; I spent time questioning whether some of the accusations were accurate <- do you know my personal opinion about sociopaths? its not a professional one of course, and i dont know how it would matter other than being on topic
04:45 mjg59_; matey: Like I've said before, we may not agree on a whole bunch of stuff, but I do respect your opinions as being genuinely held and I'll listen to them
04:46 phanes; mjg59_, what's your take on the continuous cycle of people using almost identical accusations of you from different events? like why do you think it keeps happening?
04:46 mjg59_; phanes: I'd guess it's because I respond in predictable ways to people who are bad
04:46 phanes; mjg59_, so they are all lying?
04:46 matey; i personally believe, given a fair amount of experience with people, that sociopaths 1. are curable 2. only if they devote their life to helping themselves evolve 3. most of whom will only fake it. 4 but some of whom will go the whole way and become heroes of a sort (that is, heroes for struggling to become whole people against the odds)
04:47 mjg59_; Eh ok they're not neccessarily bad they might just do bad things
04:47 mjg59_; matey: I think I agree with all of that
04:47 phanes; i dont think sociopaths are curable and i know factually that there are 0 cases of NPD rehabilitations
04:47 matey; i believe there are high-functioning sociopaths and theyve rigged together a sort of soul for themselves, which functions well enough to be street legal
04:48 matey; but its a hell of a thing to accomplish
04:49 mjg59_; matey: When I need to find a therapist I pick someone who has experience with narcissists because I know I'm capable of telling convincing lies and I want them to be able to identify that and call me on it
04:49 phanes; mjg59_, have you been formally diagnosed with NPD?
04:49 matey; ave you been formally diagnosed with NPD?
04:49 matey; <- i wouldnt tell anyone to answer yes to this
04:49 matey; ^
04:50 mjg59_; I don't think that I actually have a habit of telling convincing lies - I just know that I'm capable of identifying a set of facts and come up with a story
04:50 *schestowitz-TR thinks the channel has lost focus hours ago, but doesn't mind too much... makes backups of 3 laptops overnight
04:50 mjg59_; I mean, that's basically what science is
04:50 mjg59_; Look at facts, come up with a story
04:50 phanes; that is
04:50 matey; thats step 1
04:50 phanes; not what science is
04:50 mjg59_; But with science, we have ways to test that
04:50 matey; science is about testing that story
04:51 matey; right
04:51 mjg59_; With personalities, it's hard to do that ourselves
04:51 matey; very!
04:51 mjg59_; So we rely on others to test it for us
04:51 mjg59_; I'm a trained scienties
04:51 mjg59_; t
04:51 matey; i think phanes statement of 0 rehabilitations appears inaccurate from a cursory search
04:51 TR News; On telling users to write the documentation themselves gemini://republic.circumlunar.space/users/flexibeast/gemlog/2022-07-25.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://republic.circumlunar.space/users/flexibeast/gemlog/2022-07-25.gmi
04:51 mjg59_; So this is the sort of thing I'm supposed to be good at
04:52 matey; its like saying can cancer be cured
04:52 matey; no
04:52 mjg59_; Which is why I want to find people who are good at identifying that, so I can keep myself in check
04:52 matey; but cancer can be more or less cured for the most important intents and purposes, and thats the idea
04:52 mjg59_; If I say "I did this because (a) and (b)", I want someone who can tell me "But (a) is incompatible with (b)"
04:52 matey; i think npd can be treated its just fucking rare that it helps
04:52 matey; I want someone who can tell me "But (a) is incompatible with (b) <- you dont need a doctor, you need a physicist
04:53 phanes; matey, show me one example of a cured NPD patient
04:53 matey; this is exactly why i prefer the term sociopath
04:53 mjg59_; matey: Eh when it comes to interpersonal interactions I don't think it requires a physicist
04:53 phanes; narcissists and sociopaths are fundamentally different
04:53 matey; the physicist part was a well-inteded tongue in cheek joke
04:54 mjg59_; But I seek out professional help to ensure that I'm not actually making up explanations that make me look good
04:54 matey; but you want a highly-technical therapist obviously
04:54 mjg59_; Yup!
04:54 matey; i mean one who can appeal to your way of seeing the world
04:54 mjg59_; Eh maybe not? One who can tell me that my way of seeing the world is bullshit
04:54 mjg59_; I don't want therapists who make me feel good about the situation I'm in
04:55 mjg59_; I want therapists who'll tell me I'm fucking up if I'm fucking up
04:55 matey; sticking only to information thats already public
04:55 matey; how did you meet isis anyway, im not asking for many details, just a little insight into all of this (not the case, your personal life)
04:56 matey; and im only asking for things that are public knowledge (but that doesnt mean ima ware of them)
04:56 matey; im not asking you to "reveal" anything here
04:57 mjg59_; matey: Oh, I was giving a talk at the EFF and they were in the audience
04:57 matey; they talked to you after?
04:57 matey; www.healthline.com/health/therapy-for-narcissism
04:57 matey; Metacognitive interpersonal therapy (MIT) MIT is a step-by-step treatment designed to: dismantle narcissistic processes by looking at problems as they pertain to your own life.
04:58 matey; who knows if it works
04:58 mjg59_; matey: Yeah, but it took 3 years before I realised they weren interested in me
04:58 mjg59_; matey: I'm pretty oblivious
04:58 matey; but youre engaged?
04:58 mjg59_; Oops "were" not "weren"
04:58 phanes; matey, oh i dont deny that there are treatment methods, I deny that any are successful in curing the illness. NPD has tragic and seemingly locked patterns.
04:58 matey; oh ok
04:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
04:59 matey; NPD has tragic and seemingly locked patterns. <- ive seen them. so youre saying the treatments dont actually unlock those?
04:59 phanes; 0 cases of rehab documented
04:59 mjg59_; matey: We were sitting next to each other at a wedding 3 years later and there was a Bitcoin person sitting opposite me and I got into an argument with him and isis thought it was hilarious
05:00 matey; i consider this a highly personal question, but considering they didnt sign, im not sure how it can have a bad answer
05:00 matey; ill ask just for the hell of it
05:00 matey; these questions DONT all have a single point where they join, and theyre not all random either
05:00 mjg59_; matey: And then we went on 5 dates in 6 days and I finally figured out that maybe they actually wanted to spend time with me
05:00 matey; im going in more than one dirction with this
05:01 phanes; mjg59_, what year was that?
05:01 matey; i dont believe isis signed under their name or deadname or any name
05:01 matey; do you know why they didnt?
05:01 matey; the stallman ltter
05:01 mjg59_; matey: (I'll let you figure out how this plays into Roy's continual assertions that I attend FLOSS conferences to sleep with people)
05:01 matey; oh you debunked that imo
05:02 matey; he made a generalisation to try to sully you as much as possible
05:02 matey; based PARTLY on something you actually said
05:02 matey; but imo his wording was inaccurate. we dont have to be on the same side for me to agree with a valid point
05:02 mjg59_; matey: isis submitted some patches to a free software project and they got ignored and then did so again under a fake male name and they got applied and now they hate working with free software projects so refused to take a position on rms
05:02 matey; i may choose to stay out of it, but i chose to involve myself there
05:03 matey; matey: isis submitted some patches to a free software project and they got ignored and then did so again under a fake male name and they got applied and now they hate working with free software projects <- thats a real shame
05:03 matey; and yeah i know shit like that happens
05:03 matey; so refused to take a position on rms
05:03 matey; ^ i think thats noble
05:03 matey; or ethical. or reasonable. or one of those.
05:03 mjg59_; Yeah their problem with free software isn't rms
05:04 matey; its douchebags
05:04 mjg59_; So it wasn't their fight
05:04 mjg59_; No reason for them to sign it
05:04 mjg59_; I respect that
05:04 matey; yeah
05:05 matey; im on the left politically. i have a very libertarian spirit about things. they may not agree. i did consider myself libertarian at one point.
05:05 matey; i consider the problems of the world to be created by the fake left and the fake right
05:06 matey; the real left and the real right are less of a problem.
05:06 matey; the problem with fakes is they always serve the status quo in the end. either side.
05:06 *schestowitz-TR leaves laptop to copy across 231gb, leaves for the night
05:06 matey; the real left imo is our only hope.
05:06 matey; but they have more in common with the real right than the right understands, mostly
05:06 matey; for example, everyone should be armed. i know you dont agree.
05:07 matey; i think everyone should be armed.
05:07 matey; but especially the socialists!
05:07 matey; and all of the workers
05:07 matey; its easier to get the real right to understand the real left
05:08 matey; because theyre not bullshitting
05:08 matey; the fake right is fake because theyre NOT actually conservative-- theyre NOT actually libertarian
05:08 matey; and they really just believe in doing what they want because force.
05:08 matey; thats not even politics, its just thuggery
05:08 phanes; i think everyone should have a registered gun and an unregistered gun. one in break-glass for intruders, one in break-glass for tyranny. 'merica.
05:09 matey; the fake left is a problem because they hold back the real left.
05:09 matey; in other words, they fight for progress they then prevent
05:09 matey; with some notable exceptions
05:10 matey; the best example of the fake left is stalin himself
05:10 matey; everyone should learn about stalins career
05:10 matey; the same way they learn what a cuntbag hitler was
05:10 matey; its an equally important historical lesson for everyone
05:10 phanes; yeah
05:10 phanes; killed way more people too
05:10 britney; matey, stalin was a bank robber
05:11 matey; he robbed whole countries
05:11 matey; and i dont mean that he annexed. i mean he took them away from the people
05:11 matey; i dont care about governments. governments are like diapers
05:11 matey; yorue supposed to grow out of them eventually
05:11 matey; and theyre full of shit :)
05:12 phanes; yeah you know something is wrong when your two chief choices are hillary clinton or donald trump.
05:12 matey; she ran his election
05:12 phanes; yes lol
05:13 matey; not enough people wanted trump to actually elect him (the first time)
05:13 matey; they dont want him now either, but they do believe so
05:13 matey; they didnt vote for trump. they voted for not-hillary
05:13 matey; the democrat voters wanted bernie
05:13 phanes; this jan 6th thing was taken too lightly
05:13 matey; the dnc sucks that hard
05:13 phanes; he needs to be barred from even running
05:14 matey; this jan 6th thing was taken too lightly <- it was a coup
05:14 phanes; preferrably on a gallow
05:14 matey; the coup didnt take power, but it was still a coup
05:14 phanes; give 'im the ole "Saddam" treatment
05:14 matey; the us gov will never hang someone that high up for treason
05:14 matey; someday though, the people will
05:15 matey; dunno when
05:15 phanes; im practicing my french in anticipation
05:15 matey; but its a historical fact, it just hasnt happened yet
05:15 matey; meh, the french are cunts
05:15 matey; but theyve done some cool things
05:15 matey; not recently :/
05:15 matey; right now theyre just doing roma pograms
05:15 phanes; in mil. history they always get sold short. they just are so good at losing.
05:16 phanes; or running
05:16 matey; thats not what bothers me
05:16 matey; they dont know when to right "run into those bullets!" "
05:16 matey; why?" "i dont know, it sounded cool!"
05:16 matey; they dont know when fight and when to retreat
05:16 matey; "hitlers coming"
05:16 matey; "okay get the white flags!"
05:16 matey; "why?"
05:17 matey; "we tried running into bullets and that was shit!"
05:17 phanes; lol
05:17 matey; "yeah but what the fuck are we doing, just flipping a coin?"
05:17 matey; these are not the proudest moments in french history
05:17 matey; and those certainly exist
05:17 matey; but i still think theyre cunts
05:17 mjg59_; I grew up in Europe, obviously I have opinions about US politics and the space it occupries
05:18 phanes; a person can love their country while hating the things it does
05:18 matey; us politics are mostly based on the government, thats why us politics suck so much
05:18 matey; i like americans
05:18 matey; until they get into office
05:18 matey; then i generally dont
05:18 matey; i coudlve met obama, i did support his campaign
05:19 matey; by the time i had the chance i went to mcdonalds
05:19 matey; ive also been to bens chili, but only because more interesting people than obama went there
05:19 matey; to be fair, he WAS the first black president
05:19 matey; but its also fair to say "better luck next time"
05:20 matey; i think oprah wouldve been better
05:20 matey; maybe even less than terrible
05:20 mjg59_; I think Obama was the most effective US president in my lifetime, and that's not saying a great deal
05:20 matey; fsvo effective
05:20 matey; youre in your 30s?
05:20 mjg59_; Also way too many drone strikes
05:20 mjg59_; 42
05:20 matey; yeah the drones are a dealbreaker for me
05:20 phanes; yeah as a potus he did alot but he may also fall into the mass murderer category
05:21 mjg59_; I don't think you get to be US president without being a mass murderer
05:21 mjg59_; Maybe Carter avoided that, just
05:21 matey; that says a lot
05:21 mjg59_; Everyone in my lifetime has murdered a shitload of people
05:21 matey; i dont call it murder if its just
05:21 matey; problem is its usually about profit, not justice
05:22 phanes; eh. hard to call civilian men women and children in the ironsights of a drone a just killing
05:22 matey; most wars are bullshit. but you wont see me telling ukraine to "be nice"
05:22 matey; because you really DO have a right to defend yourself
05:22 matey; even if the usa is just exploiting them
05:22 matey; proxy war fodder
05:22 mjg59_; Yeah I'd treat Ukraine differently
05:22 phanes; what we did in the ME was the same kind of justice you see in the gaza strip
05:22 phanes; s/justice/"justice"/g
05:22 mjg59_; But Greneda? Iraq II? Afghanistan?
05:23 matey; war crimes > murder > defence
05:23 matey; iraq ii was just straight up war crime profiteering
05:23 phanes; payday for contractors
05:23 matey; blair should have a velvet rope or something
05:23 mjg59_; And Clinton had missile attacks on legitimate chemical factories
05:23 matey; though i think they should have shot saddam
05:24 matey; if youre in the military you should get a choice
05:24 matey; rope or bullet
05:24 matey; he wanted bullet
05:24 mjg59_; Please don't view me as someone in favour of imperialism
05:24 mjg59_; I was born in Ireland, I have some experience of this
05:24 matey; irelands weird and doesnt represent the world
05:24 matey; however they wanted to send the guy who helped with the peace process to the middle east
05:25 matey; i thought it was a great idea.
05:25 mjg59_; Ireland was utterly fucked over by Britain for a very long time
05:25 matey; the biggest problems in the middle east arent israel and palestine-- though i do blame israel for their role
05:25 mjg59_; Not to the extent of being sold into slavery, so there's a categorical distinction there
05:25 matey; its the rest of the world exploiting that conflict isntead of fixing it
05:25 matey; thats the bigger problem
05:26 mjg59_; matey: A lot of the middle east is also the UK's fault
05:26 matey; the british are cunts too. and i adore them mostly
05:26 phanes; there were irish slaves
05:26 phanes; in the us
05:26 matey; including ulster <3
05:26 mjg59_; phanes: Fuck the fucking fuck off
05:26 phanes; dark time in us history
05:26 phanes; im not kidding, its true
05:26 mjg59_; phanes: That's some actual white supremacist bullshit
05:26 mjg59_; It's literally not
05:27 mjg59_; The form of indentured servitude that irish people were subject to in the US is nothing akin to slavery
05:27 phanes; i may actually be full of shit on that now that im looking it up, but i could swear this was covered in like a 4th grade history class
05:27 matey; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth <- wikipedia is never wrong
=> ↺ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth
05:27 TR Bot; Irish slaves myth - Wikipedia
05:27 mjg59_; The only people that advance that argument are attempting to undermine the evil of slavery by suggesting that white people were treated as poorly
05:27 matey; i dont think phanes is a white supremacist
05:28 phanes; "indentured servantry" is what i think the term used is
05:28 mjg59_; matey: He may not be, but if you sit at a table with 7 people who are nazis and 1 who's merely suggesting that their arguments have merit
05:28 matey; https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-irish-were-indentured-servants-not-slaves/3198590001/ <- usa today is a big pile of shit but im linking this anyway
05:28 TR Bot; Fact check: Irish were indentured servants, not slaves
05:28 mjg59_; I'm not going to argue that indentured servitude was good
05:28 matey; <mjg59_> matey: He may not be, but if you sit at a table with 7 people who are nazis and 1 who's merely suggesting that their arguments have merit <- okay, but where are the other 7
05:29 mjg59_; But it was absolutely not akin to slavery
05:29 phanes; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
=> ↺ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
05:29 TR Bot; Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia
05:29 mjg59_; More an exported form of feudalism
05:29 matey; sometimes people get history wrong for innocent reasons
05:29 matey; or because a cryptofascist told them something dumb
05:30 phanes; """While the majority of Irish people who became indentured servants in the Colonies did so willingly (why they felt they had to so is, of course, another question), a not insignificant number were forcibly deported and sold into indentured servitude, Liam Hogan, a librarian and historian known for his work dispelling the Irish slave myth, told Pacific Standard magazine in 2018."""
05:30 phanes; https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-irish-were-indentured-servants-not-slaves/3198590001/
05:30 matey; and if youre gentle-- though you can try to egg him over irc--
05:30 matey; sometimes a simple factual correction works on reasonable people
05:30 matey; i said sometimes
05:30 mjg59_; phanes: While evil, indentured servitude was not the same as slavery
05:30 phanes; i agree with that and stand corrected
05:31 matey; you know who is saying there were white slaves too these days
05:31 phanes; the pivot point i think there is on legal personhood
05:31 matey; is john cleese. and since i have no reason to think hes a white supremacist
05:31 matey; i was included to believe him
05:31 matey; inclined
05:32 mjg59_; phanes: Thank you for admitting that you are not always correct, and I apologise for having a strongly emotional reaction to your original claim
05:32 phanes; it's okay, I already knew you were an easily offended asshole
05:32 matey; im sure he means that in the nicest way possible :)
05:32 mjg59_; phanes: The "There were Irish slaves" claim is almost always advanced by people who do not have any Irish background, and as someone who does I find it hugely offensive
05:33 phanes; im a good mix of german, scottish and cherokee
05:33 matey; is almost always advanced by people who do not have any Irish background <- im allegedly from the mccormick line
05:33 mjg59_; phanes: The co-option of Irish americans into the white supremacist narrative is fundamentally incompatible with modern Irish culture
05:34 matey; but damned if ill ever prove it now, and i dont identify strongly with it (but i do like the irish)
05:34 matey; nearly married one
05:34 matey; that is, someone born there
05:34 matey; as they consider consider descendents of irish "irish"
05:34 matey; dont consider ^
05:34 mjg59_; If you have an Irish grandparent you're Irish
05:35 matey; modern Irish culture <- and any decent irish culture at that
05:35 mjg59_; Even if you weren't born there
05:35 matey; If you have an Irish grandparent <- little farther back
05:35 mjg59_; (Some details based around exact timing elided)
05:36 matey; at any rate, i dont consider myself (significantly) irish
05:36 matey; but someone was. maybe a bunch
05:36 phanes; probably a bunch
05:36 matey; dna says a bunch
05:36 matey; i didnt, but a relative did
05:36 mjg59_; Honestly as someone who also spent a bunch of time growing up in Northern Ireland a bunch of Irish-American culture is actually bad
05:36 matey; so i know the dna (but i think some of thats bunk.)
05:37 matey; a bunch of Irish-American culture is actually bad <- oh cmon
05:37 mjg59_; Peter King's love of the IRA was obscene
05:37 phanes; mjg59_, that would be a damper on having kids i'd imagine
05:37 matey; a few brass knuckles and burned out store fronts never hurt anybody
05:37 matey; oh irish-american
05:37 mjg59_; matey: The town I grew up in was blown up by an IRA splinter group in 1998 in the single worst terrorist attack of the troubles
05:37 matey; of course you know i wasnt serious
05:38 matey; when i was a kid
05:38 matey; i was lke
05:38 mjg59_; matey: Yeah sorry just providing context
05:38 matey; "fuck! ill never go there, that place is CRAZY"
05:38 matey; then when i was there
05:38 matey; i was like
05:38 mjg59_; matey: But people in Boston kept on giving them money even after the ceasefire
05:38 matey; noooooooo, i dont want to leave
05:38 matey; then i was depressed for like two years after i left
05:38 matey; i mean like REALLY depressed
05:39 matey; so im quite fond of them really
05:39 mjg59_; I love going back there
05:39 matey; if i could get a fucking cornish pastie and some proper chips and hp sauce id be happy
05:39 matey; most of which is doable. even the pastie, but thats the trickiest part
05:40 matey; ive certainly had hp sauce and proper chips since then
05:40 phanes; i enjoy a good haggis
05:40 matey; you can have mine
05:40 matey; though honestly i should probably try the damned thing
05:40 phanes; not much on islay scotch though
05:40 phanes; too much bandaid taste
05:40 matey; it cant be any worse than sausage
05:41 phanes; its actually really good when its made well
05:41 matey; the most undrinkable thing ive ever had with alcohol was canadian mist
05:41 matey; i imagine it would taste about the same if i licked my antiperspirant
05:41 phanes; what the canadians make and call whiskey should not be legally allowed to be called whiskey
05:41 matey; im not dissing canadian alcohol altogether, im not that mean
05:42 matey; ive had some i like too
05:42 matey; just not that
05:42 matey; canadian mist isnt a drink, its a munition
05:42 matey; at best its an industrial solvent
05:42 matey; but not for drinking
05:42 matey; and its not even that strong, its just horrid
05:42 phanes; im not a big fan of irish whisky either tbh
05:43 matey; but ive had plenty of canadian booze that i never complained about
05:43 phanes; just never could acquire a taste for it outside of post-funeral parties
05:43 matey; and by plenty i mean i didnt drink until my 30s and even then not enough for doctors to get involved
05:43 phanes; i drank
05:44 matey; ive had two hangovers, roughly
05:44 phanes; i developed a stupid level of tolerance for it
05:44 phanes; oh ill get hung over
05:44 phanes; i may even die
05:44 phanes; but im going to fall last
05:46 phanes; i remember the only time my uncle drank with me as after dad died, and we sat there with a bottle of the nastiest dewer's you've ever cleaned a gear with, and we took shot for shot till the old man keeled over a few hours later about 5 imnutes before i did
05:46 phanes; 3rd bottle had about 75% lerft the next day and we decided that we'd all had enough for the trip
05:47 matey; mjg:
05:47 matey; this is half intended as a rib but technically its real advice
05:47 matey; im 99% certain ben rich is NOT a sex tourist
05:48 matey; so dont go burning him at the stake until you have more than a few forum posts to go on
05:48 matey; /me likes him and is pretty sure hes innocent
05:49 mjg59_; matey: Not familiar with him
05:49 matey; hes not in foss, hes a youtuber
05:49 matey; feel free to keep an eye on johnny, weve decided hes weird
05:49 mjg59_; Irish whiskey was largely terrible for a long time, because the Irish booze industry consolidated after independence and almost all the good breweries and distilleries got closed down
05:50 mjg59_; But the past 20 years has seen a huge resurgence in high quality Irish whiskey
05:51 mjg59_; Lots of small independent distilleries, and also much better expost of what was already made to the US
05:51 phanes; still kind of hard to catch up to the magic that's going on in banffshire/dufftown mjg59_
05:51 mjg59_; It's kind of upsetting, Green Spot used to be about $15 a bottle and come with a screw cap, and now it's a premium thing that's $50 a bottle
05:52 matey; my favourite youtuber at the moment https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Fyu-2JIetEM
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Fyu-2JIetEM
05:52 TR Bot; What is the Purpose of True Crime? | We're In Hell - Invidious
05:53 matey; at first hes grating, but hes a wild mix of interesting information and comedic delivery (that particular video is a horrible example of this)
05:54 matey; this one is good https://yewtu.be/watch?v=WycFnXXj6h0 this one is Fucked https://yewtu.be/watch?v=VHi_UusXdWM
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=WycFnXXj6h0
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=VHi_UusXdWM
05:54 TR Bot; Stay Here: Gentrification and the Neoliberal City - Invidious
05:54 TR Bot; Lost Resort: Oops, They Made a Cult! - Invidious
05:54 matey; <mjg59_> It's kind of upsetting, Green Spot used to be about $15 a bottle and come with a screw cap <- whiskey gentrification!
05:54 mjg59_; Honestly the only youtuber I've really got into is lookmumnocomputer
05:55 matey; he makes music and things that make music
05:55 matey; that almost sounds like hank hill started a band
05:55 phanes; found the seal request, it was just for a portion of the anonymous testimony: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.22.0.pdf
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.22.0.pdf
05:55 mjg59_; matey: Haha when I first moved to SF I ended up in a bar listening to a guy with an Irish accent complain that when he'd moved into his neighbourhood it was so real but now almost all his neighbours were white
05:56 mjg59_; matey: And I managed to avoid explaining that maybe he was part of the problem there
05:56 matey; oh god, i used to live in a very gay town and then all th straights started moving in
05:56 matey; and i didnt mind, except it was less cool then
05:57 mjg59_; It's fine, the place I live used to be owned by the head of the SF Republican Party so I only displaced a dick
05:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
06:01 mjg59_; Also I did enjoy earlier that Roy just refused to take a stand on the channel not discussing tech rights because whoever he criticised would result in bullshit
06:01 matey; <mjg59_> matey: And I managed to avoid explaining that maybe he was part of the problem there <- i bet he knew
06:01 mjg59_; I actually empathise on that point
06:01 mjg59_; Moderation is hard
06:01 mjg59_; matey: I'm geninely not sure that he did
06:02 matey; <mjg59_> matey: I'm geninely not sure that he did <- what are the odds
06:03 matey; <mjg59_> Moderation is hard <- i hope you never understand his methods, i can assure you he doesnt
06:04 mjg59_; matey: People in their 20s working for tech companies in SF? Default assumption is lack of social awareness
06:04 matey; People in their 20s working for tech companies in SF? Default assumption <- fair play
06:05 matey; you made him sound older
06:05 mjg59_; Oh yeah people here are very "Oh I was here 2 years ago, you're the newbies"
06:05 mjg59_; It's not super healthy tbh
06:05 phanes; i dont think anyboidy is arguing that califonia tech culture is healthy
06:06 matey; the neuveau teche
06:06 *Despatche has quit (Quit: Read error: Connection reset by deer)
06:07 phanes; tbh i dont view employers in silicon valley as stable unless they're one of the big 5
06:07 phanes; between that and the housing situation
06:07 obarb has quit (.net *.split)
06:07 *brabo (~brabo@wau.centropy.info) has joined #techrights
06:08 *brabo has quit (Changing host)
06:08 *brabo (~brabo@user/brabo) has joined #techrights
06:10 matey; mjg i know this is a flawed question, feel free to rewrite it to allow for a better answer
06:10 matey; if you only had one class (one session) to teach your students
06:10 matey; whats the one thing youd stress most about security
06:11 mjg59_; matey: Nothing you believe is trustworthy should be treated as such unless you can verify it
06:11 matey; hmm
06:11 mjg59_; matey: And, in the absence of belief about something being trustworthy, how can you protect against it anyway
06:12 matey; i know its not intended
06:12 mjg59_; It ends up coming down to "Can I trust my CPU" and the answer is "No, but what else are you going to do"
06:12 matey; hmm
06:13 mjg59_; Really the moral is "Build a decent threat model"
06:13 matey; always right
06:14 mjg59_; Identify where the threats are, and identify whether the people who could exploit those threats care about you
06:14 mjg59_; For most people, the answer is that they don't need to care about their CPU vendor
06:14 mjg59_; It's not worth the risk to the vendor to compromise someone where there's a risk that might be identified
06:15 mjg59_; For some people, that's a risk you need to care about
06:15 mjg59_; And the most important thing in security is figuring out where you are in that scale
06:15 mjg59_; Because that influences everything that you spend time and money on
06:15 matey; i mean, cops in india are putting rats on journalists
06:16 matey; then using it to plant evidence
06:16 mjg59_; Yeah, ironically for this channel this actually ties into secure boot
06:17 matey; the rat is easy enough to rmove
06:17 mjg59_; Hacking Team were selling implants for compromising journalists to repressive governments that would have been blocked by secure boot
06:17 matey; but you need to be computer literate to know how to do this
06:17 matey; secure boot was turned into something that hurts consumers more than it helps them
06:18 matey; it may have the potential to do the opposite
06:18 matey; but its like regulatory capture
06:18 matey; its technology capture
06:18 mjg59_; There's room to argue on that point, but yeah my position now is maybe not what it was a month ago
06:18 matey; its reasonable if your position changes as it becomes more refined
06:19 matey; otherwise we would still be doing biology at the socratic level
06:19 matey; which doesnt sound great
06:19 matey; and thats what your phd is in?
06:19 matey; so there wouldnt be a phd in that
06:22 mjg59_; Huh I would note that https://archive.ph/G4Wbq includes sworn testimony about the name involved in the lovecruft case
06:22 TR Bot; TAODB
06:23 matey; Huh I would note <- why would you note that though
06:23 mjg59_; phanes: Weird that you'd actually have cited a page asserting in sworn testimony what someone's name is and then deny that you have evidence of it?
06:23 matey; how does that fit in
06:23 DaemonFC; Just turn it off.
06:23 DaemonFC; There are too many bugs in the UEFI firmware to ever secure it properly.
06:23 matey; i suspect phanes is being honest and cares about accuracy, despite some anomolies
06:23 DaemonFC; Even if you install those updates from Lenovo, which trash Bitlocker because of the stupid TPM, you're not secure.
06:24 mjg59_; Ugh Linux contains security bugs does that mean we just stop improving security in Linux
06:24 phanes; mjg59_, that would be weird if it weren't a projection of a false paradigm instead of a factual accounting
06:24 DaemonFC; There will just be another round next month, and eventually Lenovo will not support you anymore even if you can install the updates.
06:24 DaemonFC; mjg59_Ugh Linux contains security bugs does that mean we just stop improving security in Linux
06:24 mjg59_; phanes: Is your argument that a court filing contained lies
06:24 DaemonFC; Well, given that I can install the updates for the Linux kernel and there's no drop dead date on "support", that's doable.
06:24 DaemonFC; I can install those. It makes no sense not to.
06:24 phanes; mjg59_, no my argument is that you have no credibility on this given your argument approach
06:25 mjg59_; phanes: You asked for evidence of a legal name, and you posted that evidence yourself
06:25 DaemonFC; Plus, UEFI updates generally need Windows to be installed.
06:25 DaemonFC; Which I don't have.
06:25 matey; mjg are you an atheist? im agnostic for the most part
06:25 matey; this isnt highly relevant, but it might be in a small way
06:25 mjg59_; matey: Broadly atheist, but not dogmatically so
06:26 matey; science and religion can fuck, but im not sure how well they can cohabitate
06:26 mjg59_; matey: I don't believe that a higher being is required for anything we can observe to be explained, but I also refuse any scenario where I have to believe something absolutely
06:26 matey; <mjg59_> matey: I don't believe that a higher being is required <- no, and its funny how thats the point that so many people care about (im not pinning that on you-- if most people-- network effects.)
06:27 DaemonFC; Life is pointless. You work, you maybe get ahead a little, maybe not. Many people have kids, many don't. Eventually, you get older, nobody comes around anymore.
06:27 DaemonFC; Then one day a neighbor notices a funny smell and the police come in and find the cat eating your face.
06:27 mjg59_; phanes: You have evidence of sworn testimony regarding their legal name
06:27 mjg59_; phanes: Nobody in the case refutes that claim
06:27 phanes; mjg59_, great, so get what i said you need and come back with that credible approach
06:27 mjg59_; phanes: That seems like evidence?
06:28 mjg59_; phanes: Can you describe, precisely, what evidence you need?
06:28 phanes; i consider this a settled point of contention until that happens
06:28 matey; i want to know why the constitution isnt authoratative enough on this
06:28 DaemonFC; People believe in "higher powers" because they'd go nuts having to stop and think about what a waste the struggle is otherwise.
06:28 matey; but if i have to wait
06:28 matey; thats fine too
06:29 matey; the premise of the legal name is based on the misconception that the only valid process for legal name change is a form
06:29 matey; however, i thought based on experience with other states that there were other ways
06:29 matey; i looked into those
06:29 DaemonFC; All of this computer shit is hell.
06:30 phanes; mjg59_, sorry i missed your last question: as previously explained to you, some artifact of a legal change of name would be enough
06:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
06:30 matey; and found that its basically settled that this isnt merely a process available in some states
06:30 mjg59_; phanes: You have a court filing that asserts that it's their legal name
06:30 DaemonFC; People had freedom when it wasn't surrounding them, spying on them, ruining their lives in ways they couldn't even fathom.
06:30 matey; its a right guaranteed to all citizens by the constitution
06:30 mjg59_; phanes: Given that the court accepted that, it seems like evidence
06:30 phanes; mjg59_, well, bub, you hold onto that.
06:30 DaemonFC; Stephen Fry recommending Grindr about made me fall out of my chair.
06:30 mjg59_; phanes: Yeah you refusing to use the correct name at this point seems ideological
06:31 DaemonFC; I just lost all respect then and there.
06:31 matey; none of which i knew before today mind you
06:31 mjg59_; phanes: What would you need to change your opinion here?
06:31 phanes; mjg59_, no i just provided criteria you refuse to meet. I do not bend to you.
06:31 matey; but i am satisfied that their legal name is isis, and the rest is a simple misunderstanding / assumption
06:31 DaemonFC; Everything I wrote about on my blog regarding Grindr are the ways it's harmful in a country where it's not illegal to be gay.
06:32 DaemonFC; The police in some countries use it to hunt down gay men and arrest them.
06:32 DaemonFC; Or worse.
06:32 matey; what convinced me was my own research into the matter
06:32 DaemonFC; The police in Illinois just focus 100% of their "Internet Sex Crimes" budget on gay men because they can do that.
06:33 mjg59_; phanes: You're saying that testimony to a federal court, which is accepted by that court, is not acceptable to you?
06:33 DaemonFC; They can't bust people for being gay, but they can put 100% of their money for finding perverts on apps on Grindr.
06:33 matey; mjg: thats a weak argument
06:33 phanes; mjg59_, I would settle for a photocopy of a state issued ID
06:33 matey; testimony to a federal court, which is accepted by that court <- the court could be wrong
06:33 matey; i mean, about many things
06:33 DaemonFC; It's just a quota thing. You can be arrested for saying you'd do drugs that...don't even exist.
06:33 mjg59_; matey: Eh if the federal government accepts someone's name that seems like the federal government accepts it?
06:33 matey; i think theres a loophole here in that maybe the court CANT be wrong, in this instance
06:34 matey; only because by being accepted, its right
06:34 mjg59_; matey: yeah they could be wrong but so could any branch of the government
06:34 matey; yeah
06:34 DaemonFC; That's a neat trick.
06:34 matey; note this is a quibble, and doesnt change my overall opinion in the slightest
06:34 mjg59_; matey: What if the DMV accepts it and a federal court rejects it
06:34 mjg59_; Would we say the DMV is right?
06:34 matey; i was the one that noted how peculiar it was to make the dmv the highest court in the land
06:34 DaemonFC; Maybe for their next performance, they can get you to admit you'd like to speed if you didn't think there'd be any cops with a radar gun and get you on "conspiracy to speed" and issue "I'd like to speed." tickets to fund the government.
06:34 mjg59_; phanes: Why do you trust California more than the federal government?
06:35 matey; california or the feds
06:35 mjg59_; matey: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm using your argument against your
06:35 matey; tough call
06:35 DaemonFC; mjg59_phanes: Why do you trust California more than the federal government?
06:35 matey; I'm using your argument against you <- which is very silly when we reach the same conclusion about their name and its status
06:35 DaemonFC; I like how Gavin Nuisance said Texas's civil lawsuit thing with abortions is illegal.
06:35 DaemonFC; So they did the same thing there regarding guns.
06:36 DaemonFC; Fucking stupid Democrats
06:36 matey; but then i WAS quibbling about something (unimportant)
06:36 DaemonFC; Why WOULD you trust California?
06:36 matey; this isnt a chess game for me, its a high school civics class
06:36 mjg59_; matey: My argument here is just that if the federal government accepts a name in a legal filing then it should take a strong counterargument that that's not a legal name
06:37 matey; and im one of the students
06:37 DaemonFC; They're losing a Chicago's worth of people every 30 years or so at this rate, and there's no reason to think it would decelerate.
06:37 DaemonFC; It will likely speed up as the bullshit that Gavin Newsom is signing now takes effect.
06:37 matey; my argument is the same but the counterpoint you refer to is even stronger
06:37 matey; its not just a law, its a constitutional right that establishes (either de facto or de jure) that isis is their legal name
06:38 DaemonFC; The Democrats don't seem to have a big problem with losing elections and handing everything over to the Republicans.
06:38 DaemonFC; Nancy got her "strong Republican Party", on the Supreme Court.
06:38 matey; and its not even a right they "made for trans people"
06:38 matey; it applies the same way to cis even
06:38 mjg59_; phanes: Why do you believe that a federal court would make use of someone's assertion regarding their legal name without it being their legal name?
06:38 DaemonFC; The Democrats get in they make life worse than it's ever been before.
06:39 DaemonFC; They remind everyone that nobody in government will help them.
06:39 phanes; mjg59_, the window I made to consider your concern is now closed.
06:39 DaemonFC; Then the Republicans wipe them out and change all of the election laws so they never lose power again.
06:39 matey; phanes could go to a federal court, use the name englebert slapdybatch (im actually paraphrasing a trans comedian who was talking about a cis british musician) and make that "his legal name"
06:39 matey; thats my point
06:39 DaemonFC; And that's what's going to happen at the federal level now. They're all changing their laws so they can't lose those votes again.
06:40 DaemonFC; They have an actual plan this time for stealing the election.
06:40 DaemonFC; They'll be ready to declare anything they don't like a "failed election" and throw it to the legislatures.
06:40 DaemonFC; And the US Supreme Court will let them do it.
06:40 mjg59_; phanes: Gosh you're clearly prioritising truth
06:40 matey; in new hampshire theres a boatload of "freemans" doing this as a sort of stunt / gesture / activism / something
06:41 phanes; mjg59_, indeed i am, using the best tools for the job.
06:41 mjg59_; phanes: You reject a court filing that describes someone's legal name?
06:42 mjg59_; phanes: One that is accepted by a federal court?
06:42 matey; /me thinks this is easier to solve if we throw out the authorities entirely
06:42 matey; not just out of preference-- this is a technical issue
06:42 mjg59_; matey: Removing the entire concept of legal name would be a benefit, yes
06:42 phanes; mjg59_, anyone can send any of those artifacts I said you'd need to abuse@silogroup.org when requesting updates
06:42 matey; not what i meant, but fair interpretation
06:42 matey; it counts at least
06:43 mjg59_; phanes: https://archive.ph/G4Wbq is a filing in federal court describing someone's legal name
06:43 TR Bot; TAODB
06:43 mjg59_; phanes: Do you reject that filing?
06:43 phanes; not rehashing it, ive addressed this, you're just moving in circles now like it wasn't addressed
06:43 DaemonFC; https://nypost.com/2022/07/24/bandits-rob-brooklyn-bishop-during-live-streamed-service/
=> ↺ https://nypost.com/2022/07/24/bandits-rob-brooklyn-bishop-during-live-streamed-service/
06:43 TR Bot; Bandits rob Brooklyn bishop during live-streamed service
06:43 DaemonFC; LOL
06:44 matey; mjg: have you ever done meditation?
06:44 mjg59_; phanes: You're saying that a sworn statement to a federal court is not evidence?
06:44 matey; most people get it wrong the first time, precisely because theyre hung up on "doing it right"
06:44 mjg59_; matey: I have!
06:45 matey; what method do you use
06:45 DaemonFC; https://nypost.com/2022/07/24/chess-playing-robot-breaks-7-year-old-opponents-finger/
=> ↺ https://nypost.com/2022/07/24/chess-playing-robot-breaks-7-year-old-opponents-finger/
06:45 TR Bot; Chess-playing robot breaks 7-year-old opponent's finger
06:45 mjg59_; matey: Self-directed, I'm not great on the terminology here
06:46 matey; no worries
06:46 phanes; wow this john gilmore thing is shocking
06:46 matey; have you ever tried it in the middle of an online debate?
06:46 phanes; what happened with john gilmore?
06:46 matey; /me is interested in the john gilmmore thing
06:46 mjg59_; Mostly focusing on myself, identifying the external things that are distracting me, excluding those from my consciousness, just being in myself
06:47 matey; id have to look it up. sometimes you can even start at techrights
06:47 matey; its an encyclopedia, no matter what you think of it
06:47 mjg59_; matey: He invites people to his house in SF for parties and then gives them LSD without telling them
06:47 matey; just being in myself <- have you ever tried it in the middle of an online debate?
06:47 mjg59_; (I don't have external citations for this, I just have several people who told me of their experiences)
06:48 mjg59_; matey: Yeah I don't always succeed, but I do try if I'm aware that I'm responding without appropriate consideration
06:48 phanes; For anyone reading, please do NOT try LSD in the middle of an online debate.
06:49 matey; if you put the debate away from your consciousness for a moment, its not like flagging the issue as unimportant or wontfix
06:49 phanes; Just in case any wires get crossed there.
06:49 mjg59_; matey: Agree
06:49 matey; its more like saving it as a file, rebooting the machine and then opening it, with a clearer
06:49 matey; something
06:50 matey; or switching to single user mode and then coming back etc
06:50 mjg59_; matey: Don't know if you've watched Halt and Catch Fire? There's aspects of a lead character's behaviour in season 4 that align with this
06:50 matey; ive never seen it
06:50 phanes; So what happened with Will Scott?
06:50 mjg59_; It's actullay very good
06:50 phanes; at the EFF
06:50 matey; /me is no fan of the eff
06:50 matey; i think mjg is still there :) on the board at least
06:50 mjg59_; matey: Never been on the EFF board
06:51 matey; obviously thinking of someone else
06:51 matey; https://www.eff.org/about/board
=> ↺ https://www.eff.org/about/board
06:51 TR Bot; EFF's Board of Directors | Electronic Frontier Foundation
06:51 mjg59_; I gave a talk there in 2015, won their 2019 trivia contest, came second in their 2022 trivial contest
06:51 matey; ah, i bet i was thinking of kuhn
06:51 matey; I gave a talk there in 2015 <- its not that, i was mixing you up with kuhn
06:51 matey; its funny but you dont remind me of him that much
06:52 matey; its just the occupational proximity
06:52 phanes; mjg59_, any comment on john gilmore and will scott?
06:52 mjg59_; phanes: Literally no clue what you're talking about
06:52 matey; /me looks up the gilmore scott thing again
06:52 matey; i read about it this year, probably past few months
06:53 mjg59_; I think John Gilmore's a piece of shit for various reasons, but I don't think I've said anything about that publicly?
06:53 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
06:53 matey; i tried contacting gilmore but no real surprise he didnt get back
06:53 mjg59_; No idea who Will Scott is offhand
06:53 matey; for various reasons <- and youd care to share
06:53 mjg59_; matey: I mentioned above
06:53 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
06:53 matey; https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/25/john_gilmore_removed_from_eff_board/
=> ↺ https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/25/john_gilmore_removed_from_eff_board/
06:53 TR Bot; EFF co-founder John Gilmore removed from org's Board The Register
06:53 matey; https://www.itsecuritynews.info/john-gilmore-leaves-the-eff-board-becomes-board-member-emeritus/
=> ↺ https://www.itsecuritynews.info/john-gilmore-leaves-the-eff-board-becomes-board-member-emeritus/
06:54 TR Bot; John Gilmore Leaves the EFF Board, Becomes Board Member Emeritus | IT Security News
06:55 phanes; """In October 2017, Lovecruft accused computer pioneer and cofounder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Gilmore, of hiring a thug to assault Lovecruft and drag them into the street. (Todd Decl. 36 & Ex. L.) At the same time, Lovecruft accused Gilmore of conspiring with this thug to store illegal substances in Gilmores house. (Todd Decl. 36 & Ex. L.) Notably, Lovecruft made these accusations shortly after Gilmore questioned th
06:55 phanes; eir rape allegations against Appelbaum."""
06:55 matey; For anyone reading, please do NOT try LSD in the middle of an online debate. <- wouldnt dream of it, pink lizard frisbee.
06:56 mjg59_; phanes: I feel like we've just established that you don't believe things merely because they're in a legal filing?
06:56 phanes; mjg59_, so you deny that she made this accusation?
06:56 matey; matey: He invites people to his house in SF for parties and then gives them LSD without telling them <- somehow i missed this
06:56 mjg59_; phanes: Please stop misgendering people
06:56 phanes; s/she/they/
06:57 mjg59_; phanes: They also asserted what their legal name was
06:57 mjg59_; phanes: Why do you place more value in one assertion more than the other?
06:58 phanes; That wasn't my question, what my question is whether or not your fiance made that accusation of John Gilmore.
06:58 matey; mjg: i find it trickier to get the hang of properly gendering non-binary individuals than mtf or ftm, which is pretty easy
06:58 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights
06:58 mjg59_; matey: It is work, I don't blame people for getting it wrong
06:58 phanes; only when it suits you
06:58 *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114])
06:58 matey; including with non-binary individuals i greatly admire, would HATE to offend, and even care about emotionally
06:58 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights
06:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
06:59 mjg59_; phanes: I asked a question first here
06:59 mjg59_; phanes: Do you believe that things in a legal filing are true?
06:59 matey; on top of this, im a HUGE fan of singular they (not only for referencing gender, but just as a grammattical tool before trans rights were even-- remember hrc?)
06:59 phanes; yeah, your questions are disruptive distractions
06:59 matey; not clinton, the half-arsed lgb-whatever org
06:59 phanes; these are meat of the issue concerns
07:00 matey; /me has always supported pflag over hrc, because the latter suck
07:00 mjg59_; phanes: Basically: If you believe that this filing represents an accusation, you also believe that a filing represented a legal name
07:00 phanes; mjg59_, nah
07:00 mjg59_; Ok, so you don't believe that things in a legal filing are true
07:00 phanes; i'll go ahead and assume that your fiance did in fact accuse John Gilmore of that and more on
07:00 matey; i dont know if hrc is actually a terf org, i assume its where the terfs go to feel organised
07:01 mjg59_; phanes: But you won't assume that they actually represented their legal name?
07:01 phanes; mjg59_, nope sure wont
07:01 mjg59_; Ok cool
07:01 mjg59_; I think we've established that you're very in on deadnaming someone
07:01 phanes; nah we've established that you will say that a thousand times to try to convince people of that despite being given a clear way to clear it up
07:01 mjg59_; In that literally nobody here is willing to defend your deadnaming
07:01 matey; this is like tapping a tech support call with a major provider
07:02 *phanes shrugs
07:02 matey; its just going in this awful script
07:02 mjg59_; phanes: Hey look seriously I am genuine in saying that this undermines the argument you're making
07:03 matey; in this instance mjg, i agree with (the important part) of your position, and your right to pursue this like youre doing
07:03 mjg59_; The people who are largely aligned with me are the ones who are most likely to ignore you because of deadnaming
07:03 matey; but i cant feel like youve failed to learn from countless years of your homelands history
07:03 phanes; so the john gilmore accusation is assumed to have taken place; what about this Will Scott thing?
07:03 matey; help feel like ^
07:04 matey; <mjg59_> The people who are largely aligned with me are the ones who are most likely to ignore you because of deadnaming <- thats immaterial, hes not trying to impress them
07:04 mjg59_; matey: If I end up undermining myself because I'm defending my partner's identity I'm ok with that
07:04 phanes; yeah politicking on this is only serving my interests, matt
07:04 matey; youre trying to corner him into a series of gotchas
07:04 mjg59_; matey: Ugh seriously I'm not realpolitiking this
07:04 matey; because I'm defending my partner's identity I'm ok with that <- i think youre in the right to pursue defending their preferred name/gender
07:05 matey; i dont even think you have to do it the way i think would be better (whatever that is)
07:05 mjg59_; matey: I earnestly care about not having my partner deal with unnecssary bullshit
07:05 matey; and im not assuming that theres a way for either of you to reach each other
07:05 matey; and i dont think we are all friends or any crap like that
07:05 phanes; mjg59_, Will Scott: """On December 26, 2016, Lovecruft accused third party Will Scott of gang rape""" <-- can you validate this claim
07:06 mjg59_; phanes: I can say nothing about that at all
07:06 phanes; mjg59_, can or won't?
07:06 mjg59_; I'm familiar with what's in court filings, I know nothing beyond that
07:06 phanes; but this occured while you were engaged, did it not?
07:06 mjg59_; No?
07:07 phanes; you didn't know your fiance was accusing a colleague of gang rape and another of hiring a thug to assault them?
07:07 matey; this channel needs a damned marker board
07:07 mjg59_; 2016 < 2020
07:07 phanes; read that twice ^
07:08 mjg59_; I am unaware of the claims you're describing
07:08 phanes; oh so you were not engaged until 2020?
07:08 mjg59_; Yeah I think there's evidence of that
07:09 phanes; when did the romance start? I know you met in 2015ish but people don't usually just be distance friends and then suddenly get engaged.
07:10 mjg59_; k
07:11 phanes; i think the safe assumption is that you know about these events and are lying to cover for your fiance and create plausible deniability in case the usual pattern of events with me runs its course.
07:11 mjg59_; You can definitely assert that I'm lying
07:11 phanes; i do and have
07:12 mjg59_; You accept that if you falsely assert that I'm lying and that people have a worse opinion of me as a result, that that's defamation, right?
07:12 matey; no
07:12 matey; he thinks youre lying
07:12 matey; thats not defamation
07:12 matey; he states that he thinks youre lying
07:12 matey; thats not defamation either
07:13 mjg59_; matey: Oh there's a distinction between "I think you're lying" and "You're lying
07:13 matey; everyone in the world is a liar
07:13 matey; LIFE OVER
07:13 matey; nope
07:13 mjg59_; matey: It depends on the specific context
07:13 matey; okay
07:13 matey; then nope
07:13 matey; but i suppose if he wrote a whole book called mjg is a liar
07:13 mjg59_; Yeah it depends on whether the claim is negligent or malicious
07:13 matey; and it uses your whole name, and he goes into various details and works out "proof" that is in fact false
07:13 matey; etc etc etc
07:14 matey; i mean
07:14 mjg59_; A whole book would be evidence of malice
07:14 mjg59_; A single claim would be negligence, plausibly
07:14 mjg59_; But this is a case where he's been given the truth
07:14 phanes; sounds like some of those legal theories yall socialized during freenode
07:14 mjg59_; So continuing to assert otherwise isn't negligence
07:14 matey; freenode was a clusterfuck
07:14 phanes; matey, yeah it really was lol
07:15 phanes; matey, rock and a hard place on that one man
07:15 mjg59_; But hey I'm not a lawyer or a judge, I can't tell you what to do
07:15 matey; continuing to assert otherwise isn't negligence <- so once youve told him a few times if he still doesnt agree now its malice?
07:15 matey; i doubt it. no new information has been created
07:15 matey; he has no additional reasons to agree with you or believe you
07:15 phanes; just because youre not typing in all caps doesn't mean youre not mad
07:15 matey; i mean, this isnt how it works or everyone is fucked
07:16 mjg59_; matey: It'd probably get past an Anti-SLAPP staute, whether it'd convince a jury is another matter
07:16 *phanes checks the mail every day
07:16 matey; just the fact that you go from him disagreeing with you on a single point to the courtroom is...
07:17 mjg59_; matey: Oh urgh yeah I understand that perception
07:17 phanes; bear in mind this is coming from the guy who thinks "identity theft" and "satire" are the same thing
07:17 matey; i mean even in the though process
07:17 matey; thoguht
07:17 matey; fuck typing, im getting a dot
07:17 phanes; we're not dealing with reasonable, we're dealing with calm
07:17 mjg59_; matey: He's accused me of defamation, so I end up viewing his claims in that lens
07:17 matey; thats reasonable in a way
07:18 matey; i would quibble over the scope
07:18 mjg59_; matey: I'm not actually threatening to sue, I'm just trying to point out that (from a legal perspective) he's potentially behaving in the way he accuses me of behaving
07:18 matey; i think its hard to see the tso stuff as anything other than defamation
07:19 matey; he's potentially behaving in the way he accuses me of behaving <- /me nods
07:19 mjg59_; matey: Hrm. I tried very hard in that post to draw a line from evidence to my conclusion.
07:19 phanes; i think its hard to see these facts all up next to each other as anything but a continued pattern of defamation of many people over many years, and strong social links to people who do the same
07:19 mjg59_; matey: I would really appreciate earnest disagreement with that path
07:19 matey; . I tried very hard in that post to draw a line <- while i believe that statement
07:19 phanes; and ive got to be honest, the more i learn the more obvious it gets
07:19 matey; i looked very hard for the line
07:19 matey; and i believe you tried very hard in that post to draw that line
07:20 matey; i think its hard to see these facts all up next to each other as anything but a continued pattern of defamation of many people over many years <- have a countertheory
07:20 matey; i do that is
07:20 phanes; its not confirmation bias
07:20 matey; no its not about you at all
07:21 matey; do you know that well over a decade ago, i was starting to turn into a textbook sjw?
07:22 matey; no, but thats rhetorical
07:22 matey; i got over it (At leaat i think so)
07:22 matey; because it was pointless
07:22 matey; and it really went against too many things that were important to me
07:23 matey; but we had this movement, you kno
07:23 matey; and it seemed pretty good, free software was going well
07:23 mjg59_; matey: My basic argument is that you can't argue that people who describe a situation in which what happened to them met the legal definition of rape weren't raped
07:23 matey; but there were a few racist cunts around that
07:23 matey; well, i got similar idea that the sjws have had
07:24 matey; we have all this freedom
07:24 matey; why cant we do something about THIS
07:24 matey; and of course by THIS i mean some people are cunts
07:24 matey; just kind of nasty people
07:24 mjg59_; matey: And if you are going to argue that things that met the legal definition of rape weren't actually rape, then yeah, you're a rape apologist
07:24 matey; anyway, i never suggested a code of conduct
07:25 phanes; Indeed, if he had been truthfully accounting for the events while saying these things, there would be appropriate anger in his audience.
07:25 matey; the closest thing to it was jono bacons prototype and even then i thought that was bullshit
07:25 matey; #openrespect
07:25 matey; #suckoffcanonical
07:26 matey; but i was like
07:26 matey; why cant we just tell these people to stop being racist or gtfo
07:26 matey; and you can
07:26 matey; you totally can
07:26 matey; if a project doesnt want people-- a project can get rid of people
07:26 matey; theres a little more to it, details wise
07:27 phanes; which is fine
07:27 matey; its not entirely technical / legal theres all kinds of relevant politics
07:27 matey; but
07:27 matey; theres a fucking hazard too
07:27 matey; and the hazard is
07:27 phanes; until project members start calling people racist to change the project roster for their project
07:27 matey; well, like with mccarthy
07:27 matey; yeah that too
07:27 matey; my really excellent idea assumed honest people would be in charge :)
07:28 matey; and really if id had any idea what the fuck i was even proposing-- mostly to myself, you know
07:28 matey; i would have realised that this was a stupid idea that looked like a reasonable idea
07:28 phanes; its an easy trap to fall into for the well intended
07:28 matey; beacuse many of the premises were inherently reasonable
07:28 matey; and many of the details were absolute monkey shit
07:28 mjg59_; matey: So seriously, I would genuinely like to understand the disagreement about my description of Ted's behaviour
07:28 matey; i actually figured this out on my own
07:28 matey; but first!
07:29 phanes; misrepresenting his entire position would be a start
07:29 matey; i took a LONG DETOUR from the place i thought was "apathetic" and went on to give a shit about other projects
07:29 phanes; which you didnt seem to do as much in the mailing list as in your blog post
07:29 phanes; but i haven't broken the t'so issue down as far as id like, lots of email responses im waiting on and lots of reading to do
07:30 matey; THERE IS a point i was going to make, if i managed to get to it
07:30 matey; and its this
07:30 matey; i basically wanted thought policing
07:30 matey; not directly
07:30 matey; not even as a LAW or RULE or POLICY
07:30 matey; not a coc
07:30 matey; just sort of
07:30 matey; i wanted people to take time out to do casual thought policing
07:30 phanes; you wanted a culture shift
07:30 matey; so people would stop being racist
07:31 matey; YEAH!
07:31 matey; and i still think thats sort of reasonable
07:31 matey; but the way i wanted to do it
07:31 matey; 1. wouldnt work 2. side effects 3. destroy everything
07:31 matey; so its like curing the hiccups by shooting yourself
07:31 matey; it works...
07:31 matey; but thats hardly the point
07:32 matey; theres nothing wrong with curing hiccups
07:32 matey; i dont like them personally
07:32 matey; i dont agree with scott adams that negativity was the problem
07:32 matey; a fucking dumb solution was the problem
07:32 matey; i still dont like racist cunts
07:33 matey; but i dislike the thought police because they destroy everything
07:33 matey; the point was
07:33 mjg59_; matey: I feel like there's a situation here that's actually analagous to between me and my partner
07:33 matey; you can get to wanting to thought police-- without wanting to destroy everything
07:34 matey; sure-- if youre ibm, you probably want to destroy free software
07:34 matey; i BELIEVE there is plenty of evidence of that shit
07:34 mjg59_; They're an anarchist, I lean towards socialism, so we broadly agree on an end goal but we disagree with the mechanism and the holder of the power in getting there
07:34 matey; so im not saying "everybody is innocent" AT ALL
07:34 matey; im not saying "LETS TAKE PEOPLES WORDS FOR IT!" either
07:35 matey; ive said over and over and over that narcissists and pc bullshit have destroyed the movement
07:35 phanes; I'm not sure about that, I hear "socialism" and "anarchy" and my brain pictures piles of dead bodies that cover up distance mountains on the horizon.
07:35 phanes; distant*
07:35 matey; but thats the group. the mob. the big problem
07:35 matey; if youre dealing with one individual, they dont necessarily think "how i can destroy all this"
07:36 matey; thats not (always) their m.o.
07:36 matey; this matters to me, as i think understanding WTF happened is key to the future
07:36 phanes; matey, well in the case of a narcissist theyre usually not thinking that far out
07:36 matey; and getting it wrong will only lead to strategic errors
07:36 mjg59_; matey: And I don't think we fundamentally disagree about where free software should be, but we disagree about the path to get there
07:37 matey; but we disagree about the path to get there <- i used to say that when i was an open source guy
07:37 phanes; giving the keys of the kingdom to microsoft is where free software should be?
07:37 mjg59_; matey: Like, should functional communities be top down or be bottom up?
07:37 matey; its the right idea in the form of the wrong question
07:37 matey; https://techrights.org/2019/10/23/top-down-gnu/
=> https://techrights.org/2019/10/23/top-down-gnu/
07:37 TR Bot; Why GNU Is Better Staying Top-Down, Even If Free Software Isnt | Techrights
07:38 matey; that article isnt really important at all now
07:38 matey; its just a reference point
07:38 matey; <mjg59_> matey: Like, should functional communities be top down or be bottom up? <- bottom up
07:38 matey; just not the way you think (and that matters)
07:39 mjg59_; matey: Yeah I think there's room to talk there
07:39 mjg59_; I have opinions. They may be wrong!
07:39 matey; this is a VERY fundamental problem between left wing factions
07:39 mjg59_; Haha yup
07:39 matey; fundamental because without getting it right, everything gets fubared
07:39 mjg59_; Being on the left means that there's a lot of very subtle ways to disagree
07:39 matey; <mjg59_> I have opinions. They may be wrong! <- this was pre github purchase and i wouldnt watch it today
07:40 matey; but did you ever watch red vs blue
07:40 mjg59_; The Half Life based thing?
07:40 matey; i think so
07:40 matey; i thought it was halo
07:40 mjg59_; I know "But that's illegal!" and that's about it
07:40 mjg59_; Oh yeah Halo
07:40 mjg59_; I'm sorry, I'm old
07:40 matey; im older than you
07:40 matey; but close enough
07:41 mjg59_; I'm old enough that I rarely hit that, which I think means I'm old
07:41 matey; 40s, 40s, same differences
07:41 matey; I'm old enough that I rarely hit that <- i have no idea what this means, but its funny
07:42 mjg59_; matey: I don't often end up talking to people with opinions on free software who are older than me!
07:42 matey; oh i got it
07:42 mjg59_; But I guess it could be about sex, in which case no comment
07:42 matey; no no
07:42 mjg59_; Roy would be upset
07:42 matey; i was sure you didnt mean that
07:43 matey; roy is honestly a prude. literally.
07:43 matey; he will say hes not
07:43 mjg59_; Roy is very straightedge
07:43 matey; but i was certain you didnt mean it that way
07:43 matey; so i was looking at it and thinking
07:43 matey; "WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN THEN?"
07:43 matey; it was funny
07:43 mjg59_; A lot of my comedy is inadvertant
07:43 matey; sort of like the hungarian phrasebook in reverse
07:44 matey; or even forward
07:44 matey; anyway
07:44 mjg59_; matey: But seriously, I would be interested in your perspective of what I wrote about Ted, because I trust you and I also believe I wrote that earnestly (I mean, a decade ago) and I'd like to figure out disparities
07:45 matey; i dont want to give you more credit than you deserve...
07:45 mjg59_; matey: But also that doesn't need to be now
07:45 matey; for your sake, but also because i think accuracy REALLY helps
07:45 mjg59_; It's late and happy to do that some other time, but want to say I'm happy to discuss it
07:45 matey; i mean i think you helped destroy the career of a good person, probably
07:46 matey; im NOT sure any of it was malicious, but there are lots of reasons i could be wrong
07:46 matey; im stating where i am with that Now
07:46 matey; id be perfectly happy to say goddammnit you piece of shit
07:46 matey; but right now...
07:46 matey; technical metaphor
07:46 mjg59_; I understand your position
07:46 matey; simplest one i can think of
07:47 matey; suppose you have a server
07:47 mjg59_; I haven't seen any evidence I actually caused damage
07:47 matey; and its being... its not working
07:47 matey; butterfly flaps his wings in asia, wildfire starts in california.
07:47 mjg59_; But I also think speaking what we believe to be the truth should be countered with other perceiptions of the truth
07:47 matey; but this aint a butterfly and its not in asia.
07:47 matey; with other perceiptions of the truth <- i agree
07:48 matey; otherwise youre just the pope
07:48 matey; though there are other models which are as unfortunate
07:48 matey; like a mob
07:48 matey; i guess single lesson advice time
07:49 matey; if you lead anything in the future
07:49 matey; anything at all
07:49 matey; retire from leading mobs
07:49 matey; let someone else lead the mob
07:49 matey; this is tongue in cheek because i dont think youre THE leader and you dont either
07:49 phanes; pig in a pope hat?
07:49 mjg59_; I understand the argument that I have enough influence that some people will accept what I say without critical analysis
07:49 matey; pope in a pig hat
07:50 mjg59_; And I'd love to know how I can express my opinion in a way that doesn't result in that, but instead results in critical analysis of what I say
07:50 mjg59_; I don't want people to agree with me because of me
07:50 matey; And I'd love to know how I can express my opinion in a way <- ok
07:50 matey; no i havent got it yet
07:51 mjg59_; And I will definitely take advice there
07:51 matey; i was thinking of dijkstra :)
07:51 matey; he destroyed goto!
07:51 matey; but its still here
07:51 phanes; people who attract ideologues tend to be surrounded by ideologues, have to change what you attract, and to do that you have to change who you are and what you represent
07:51 matey; really, dijkstra was the ORIGINAL tech industry canceller
07:51 matey; and it was an accident.
07:52 matey; he CANCELLED GOTO
07:52 matey; and its fine to "cancel" bad tech-- like the pinto!
07:52 matey; terrible design
07:52 matey; should NEVER BE BUILT AGAIN
07:52 matey; but goto isnt really like that
07:52 phanes; i wouldn't drive a pinto lol
07:53 matey; but dijkstra, while never intended to destroy goto so savagely
07:53 matey; did anyway, because the people who took him seriously (about goto) were not as smart as he was
07:53 matey; and because wirth wrote that damned title for the article (which dijkstra didnt)
07:53 matey; and now goto is much maligned for things that dont even matter and arent even true.
07:54 matey; people are now superstitious about goto (which also goes by jmp) instead of educated about it
07:54 matey; and i feel confident this was never the intention
07:54 matey; there were even followups on this
07:54 matey; from the man himself
07:54 matey; we know it was wirth who wrote the title
07:55 matey; but, sadly, most people are simply like
07:55 matey; "dont use goto, its terrible and will RUIN YOU AS A CODER FOREVER"
07:55 matey; and no amount of setting the record straight has changed this :)
07:55 phanes; honestly it kinda does create flow control issues
07:55 matey; goto was cancelled
07:56 matey; honestly it kinda does create flow control issues <- of course it does. you should generally follow dijkstras advice about it, unless youre an incredible masochist
07:56 matey; but there are workarounds, there are caveats, there are places where it only makes sense where today people treat it like some kind of eldritch incantation
07:57 matey; that which must never be coded
07:57 matey; and its bollocks
07:57 matey; the other thing is, its SUCH an easy concept to teach
07:57 matey; jmp
07:57 matey; one move.
07:57 matey; i learned to code when i was FIVE man
07:57 matey; from a book
07:57 matey; goto i could handle
07:58 matey; do loop... huh?
07:58 matey; im five!
07:58 matey; why do you
07:58 matey; i only want to move once
07:58 matey; but then it goes back!
07:58 matey; just use break
07:58 matey; now its THREE commands! why?
07:58 matey; just one!
07:58 matey; you cant explain this shit to a five year old, they know theyre right
07:58 matey; goto makes sense, wtf is do loop
07:58 matey; "really you should use gosub"
07:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
07:59 matey; i couldnt understand gosub. it was like an alien thing.
07:59 matey; def p(): in python makes more sense than gosub
07:59 matey; but in basic, scoped function syntax is BULLSHIT
07:59 matey; or it was at the time
08:00 matey; and why scope! why-- i want-- dammit
08:00 phanes; lol
08:00 matey; you cant explain these things to a (now 7) year old
08:00 matey; you can try
08:00 matey; i tried! to explain it to me
08:00 matey; i was just turns head sideways
08:01 matey; if id known how to say "what the fuck" back then i would have
08:01 matey; so goto is a VERY simple idea
08:01 matey; and theres a debian / gopher guy
08:01 matey; john goerrrr
08:01 matey; goerzen?
08:01 matey; anyway, i think he defends goto on the same grounds while he teaches his (then) 5 year old the command line
08:01 matey; and bash functions dont have scope so theyre fucking gosub anyway!
08:02 matey; (i LOVE function scope in python. but thats today)
08:02 phanes; you can create scope in bash
08:02 matey; today people try to learn JS first. thats nuts
08:02 matey; i would just use different files
08:02 matey; i think theres scope then. god i hope so
08:02 matey; i know environments can be inherited
08:02 matey; it sounds scary
08:03 matey; when i start having to think about this stuff in bash (or ksh) i use a real language
08:03 phanes; they can
08:03 phanes; its actually harder to ensure a blank env than to inherit the parent env
08:03 matey; i not hating on the shell
08:03 phanes; thats one of the reasons i created rex
08:03 matey; its just too much work for me sometimes for some tasks
08:03 matey; nice
08:03 phanes; i need to compile a whole bunch of stuff for cross-compiling a sysroot that needed a very controlled context
08:04 matey; today it makes more sense to teach python than basic
08:04 phanes; https://source.silogroup.org/SURRO-Linux/rex
=> ↺ https://source.silogroup.org/SURRO-Linux/rex
08:04 TR Bot; SURRO-Linux/rex: Rex is a project-based, json-driven execution flow/workflow system designed to place rails around very complex automations in a controlled way that is easy to troubleshoot. - rex - SILO GROUP SCM
08:04 matey; but basic was easier. and python 2 was closer to basic than python 3.
08:04 matey; and no one should ever learn js first :(
08:04 matey; not because it will ruin them as coders
08:04 matey; only because its cruel
08:05 phanes; i need to rewrite rex from scratch tbh
08:05 phanes; the code quality imo is terrible
08:05 phanes; especially in the Sproc implementation
08:05 phanes; its a solid proof of concept i guess
08:05 phanes; gets the job done
08:05 phanes; but need to hire some more proficient coders to knock it out
08:06 matey; stallman is the patron saint of chestertons fence
08:06 matey; youd think it would be chesterton
08:06 phanes; lol
08:07 matey; Compiling Rex is easy. There are zero external dependencies. Build does require cmake.
08:07 phanes; yep
08:07 phanes; runtime has no dependencies outside of libstdc++ but compile requires cmake and gnu-c++
08:07 matey; this sounds very 1776
08:07 matey; A name, which is an identifier for the Unit used by people.
08:08 matey; i bet reading shit i wrote in a heat wave is better than hearing shit you said when high
08:08 matey; "wtf did i-- what?"
08:08 phanes; you gave me a panic attack, i said alot of things in my 20s
08:09 matey; mea culpa
08:09 phanes; 20s me was the patron saint of people who should not be listened to
08:09 matey; that was most people in their 20s
08:09 matey; and mjg in his 30s
08:09 matey; zing
08:09 phanes; just because i always won the argument, too many people did
08:10 matey; so my metaphor for mjg is this
08:11 matey; in red vs blue, there was a character
08:11 matey; he was actually a bomb, and he had ai
08:11 matey; why did he have ai?
08:11 matey; there was no reason, except he was built from robot parts
08:11 matey; so he had ai
08:12 matey; and his sole purpose was to go off and destroy an enemy ship
08:12 matey; and he was REALLY REALLY eager to do
08:12 matey; it
08:12 mjg59_; I mean, Dark Star
08:12 matey; and youre probably thinking he went off early
08:12 matey; nope
08:12 mjg59_; We have precedent from the 70s
08:12 matey; he actually did exactly what was needed
08:13 matey; which isnt part of the metaphor i hasten to add
08:13 matey; but thats how the story went
08:13 matey; the point of the metaphor
08:13 matey; was he was armed the whole fucking time
08:13 matey; and the only thing he was ever interested in doing (and in this instance, capable of doing) w
08:13 phanes; any chance of getting a demonstration with handpuppets in a little theatre stage
08:13 matey; was going off
08:14 matey; i mean i can probably find the episode on youtube
08:14 matey; he had conversations with the soldier that built him
08:14 matey; he was very sarcastic and kind of tunny
08:14 matey; funny
08:14 matey; but basically every situation was like
08:14 matey; are we there yet? are we there yet?
08:15 matey; can i do it now? can i do it now?
08:15 matey; he can only do it once, but hes very keen on it
08:15 matey; when he finally does hes lke OH BOY!!!!!
08:16 matey; but hes just ready to jump in there
08:16 matey; of course if he had gone off early it would defeated the entire point of the mission
08:16 matey; and here we are
08:17 phanes; i agree with taht assessment
08:17 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=rOJo6q2aWqY
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=rOJo6q2aWqY
08:17 TR Bot; Season 3, Episode 54 - Hello My Name Is Andrew | Red vs. Blue - Invidious
08:17 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=b-ozamfqsH0
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=b-ozamfqsH0
08:17 TR Bot; Red vs Blue - Andy the Bomb - Invidious
08:19 matey; shisno.
08:19 matey; hehehehe
08:19 phanes; ah i can't watch this
08:19 phanes; sorry
08:19 phanes; ill take your word about thge plot
08:20 matey; honestly i feel bad even introducing anyone to it
08:20 matey; i stopped watching it after the github purchase
08:20 matey; MAN i was pissed
08:20 matey; and that was in 2018
08:21 phanes; one thing ive gotta say, the plaintiff's legal team in this does a much better job formatting and organizing their content than the defendant
08:21 phanes; you can feel the skill behind it transcribing it
08:22 matey; i went through most of the oreilly book on information architecture or something like that
08:22 matey; i wish i could say i can apply it
08:22 matey; bob ross and mary popppins in the fly chamber
08:22 matey; the scene where she makes everything go neatly into its right place
08:23 matey; unless i dreamt that
08:23 phanes; when you ingest content like that you don't really get a new skill, you just get subtly better and more organized at how you work with information
08:23 matey; bob ross happily painting every snippet of data into a place that makes perfect sense
08:23 phanes; its one of those skills that applies to everything
08:24 matey; i still dont get stallmans beef with "content"
08:24 matey; i hate that page with a passion, though the premise (once again) is perfectly reasonable
08:26 phanes; data framing is everything to turning data into intelligence
08:27 TR News; #HowTo Change MAC Address in Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167625
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167625
08:27 TR Bot; How to Change MAC Address in Linux | Tux Machines
08:33 phanes; aw freenode found one of my bait alts :(
08:33 phanes; I really liked Jose
08:33 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: ^_^
08:33 schestowitz[TR2]; https://postmarketos.org/blog/2022/07/25/considering-sourcehut/
=> ↺ https://postmarketos.org/blog/2022/07/25/considering-sourcehut/
08:33 TR Bot; postmarketOS // Considering SourceHut
08:33 matey; still seems like a useless model to me
08:34 matey; you pay and pay and pay, you stop paying and it disappears
08:34 phanes; I bet John Dennison saw the domain jose was using (amigo.serentos.org)
08:34 matey; they least they can do is act as a mirror if you stop paying to be able to modify it
08:35 TR News; Microsoft: KB5015882, KB5015814 updates break Start menu in Windows 11 https://www.windowslatest.com/2022/07/25/microsoft-confirms-kb5015882-kb5015814-break-start-menu-in-windows-11/
08:35 TR Bot; Microsoft: KB5015882, KB5015814 updates break Start menu in Windows 11
08:36 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167626
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167626
08:36 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
08:38 TR News; IRC Proceedings: Sunday, July 24, 2022 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/irc-log-240722/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/irc-log-240722/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/irc-log-240722/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/irc-log-240722/
08:38 TR Bot; IRC Proceedings: Sunday, July 24, 2022 | Techrights
08:38 TR News; postmarketOS // Considering SourceHut Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167627
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167627
08:38 TR Bot; postmarketOS // Considering SourceHut | Tux Machines
08:38 TR News; "Hinds said the decision not to criminally charge Uber reflected new management's prompt investigation and disclosures" https://cio.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/enterprise-services-and-applications/uber-admits-covering-up-2016-hacking-avoids-prosecution-in-u-s-settlement/93064257 | Source: India Times
08:39 TR Bot; uber: Uber admits covering up 2016 hacking, avoids prosecution in U.S. settlement, CIO News, ET CIO
08:39 matey; aw freenode found one of my bait alts
08:39 TR News; Microsoft sham https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/25/aws_slams_microsoft_cloud_licenses/ | Source: The Register UK
=> ↺ https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/25/aws_slams_microsoft_cloud_licenses/
08:39 TR Bot; AWS sales boss claims Microsoft's cloud licenses The Register
08:39 matey; jealous ones still envy
08:40 TR News; Another reason to cancel Netflix https://www.computerworld.com/article/3667283/netflix-to-launch-ad-supported-tier-with-microsoft-in-2023.html | Source: Computer World
08:40 TR Bot; to launch ad-supported tier with Microsoft in 2023 | Computerworld
08:40 TR News; "Based on the comments on our story and comments Ive seen across Twitter, Reddit" https://www.theverge.com/23274393/amazon-prime-video-netflix-hbo-apps-look-the-same | Source: The Verge
=> ↺ https://www.theverge.com/23274393/amazon-prime-video-netflix-hbo-apps-look-the-same
08:40 TR Bot; Streaming video apps all look the same now - The Verge
08:41 TR News; 9to5Linux Weekly Roundup: July 24th, 2022 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167628
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167628
08:41 TR Bot; 9to5Linux Weekly Roundup: July 24th, 2022 | Tux Machines
08:43 TR News; "I say this not to say "Oh, think of the poor billionaires, managing a company from their yacht parties must be so stressful! :(" but rather to point out that everyone is worse off under oppressive hierarchies, even when those hierarchies seem to explicitly benefit them." gemini://skylarhill.me/posts/hadestown-and-how-power-sucks.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://skylarhill.me/posts/hadestown-and-how-power-sucks.gmi
08:44 TR News; A 70s TV With 20s Parts https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/a-70s-tv-with-20s-parts/ | Source: Hackaday
=> ↺ https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/a-70s-tv-with-20s-parts/
08:44 TR Bot; 70s TV With 20s Parts | Hackaday
08:46 TR News; system76 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=https://www.muylinux.com/2022/07/13/system76-launch-lite/
08:46 TR Bot; System76 anuncia Launch Lite su nuevo teclado personalizable
08:48 TR News; "having the list where you can see it during the video" http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-240722.html#tJul%2024%2003:42:18
=> http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-240722.html#tJul%2024%2003:42:18
08:48 TR Bot; IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022
08:48 TR News; "github controls more than half of free software" http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-230722.html#tJul%2023%2023:36:09
=> http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-230722.html#tJul%2023%2023:36:09
08:48 TR Bot; IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, July 23, 2022
08:48 TR News; standing up against history rewriting, isnt "hero worship" http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-230722.html#tJul%2023%2001:56:11
=> http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-230722.html#tJul%2023%2001:56:11
08:48 TR Bot; IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, July 23, 2022
08:49 TR News; "A few days ago, IBASE unveiled an ATX motherboard debuting the 12th Gen Intel Core processors." https://linuxgizmos.com/atx-board-integrates-12th-gen-intel-processors-dual-2-5gbe-quad-displays-and-5g-lte-support/ | Source: Linux Gizmos
08:49 TR Bot; ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/atx-board-integrates-12th-gen-intel-processors-dual-2-5gbe-quad-displays-and-5g-lte-support/ )
08:49 TR News; "The Espoir is a four-layer board that features the ESP32-MINI-1 which is a dual core processor with maximum frequency of 240MHz." https://linuxgizmos.com/esp32-based-poe-board-designed-for-home-automation-applications/ | Source: Linux Gizmos
=> ↺ https://linuxgizmos.com/esp32-based-poe-board-designed-for-home-automation-applications/
08:49 TR Bot; ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/esp32-based-poe-board-designed-for-home-automation-applications/ )
=> ↺ https://linuxgizmos.com/esp32-based-poe-board-designed-for-home-automation-applications/
08:51 TR News; "Paper straws are not enough. Only System Change can halt the climate crisis." https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/25/paper-straws-are-not-enough/ | Source: Counter Punch
=> ↺ https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/25/paper-straws-are-not-enough/
08:51 TR Bot; Straws Are Not Enough - CounterPunch.org
08:52 TR News; Roads Are Literally Melting in Europe https://truthout.org/articles/roads-are-literally-melting-in-europe-during-unprecedented-heat-wave/ | Source: TruthOut
08:52 TR Bot; Roads Are Literally Melting in Europe During Unprecedented Heat Wave
08:52 TR News; US Federal Minimum Wage Hasn't Been Raised in 13 Years https://truthout.org/articles/federal-minimum-wage-hasnt-been-raised-in-13-years/ | Source: TruthOut
=> ↺ https://truthout.org/articles/federal-minimum-wage-hasnt-been-raised-in-13-years/
08:52 TR Bot; Federal Minimum Wage Hasn't Been Raised in 13 Years
08:54 TR News; Trader Joe https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/25/why-trader-joes-workers-are-joining-the-fight-to-unionize/ | Source: Counter Punch
=> ↺ https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/25/why-trader-joes-workers-are-joining-the-fight-to-unionize/
08:54 TR Bot; Trader Joes Workers Are Joining the Fight to Unionize - CounterPunch.org
08:56 TR News; Sony https://torrentfreak.com/sony-flags-its-own-website-for-repeat-copyright-infringements-220724/ | Source: Torrent Freak
=> ↺ https://torrentfreak.com/sony-flags-its-own-website-for-repeat-copyright-infringements-220724/
08:56 TR Bot; Flags Its Own Website for Repeat Copyright Infringements * TorrentFreak
08:56 TR News; "Congress must act to raise wages for the tens of millions of workers who are struggling just to get by." https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/24/13th-anniversary-last-minimum-wage-hike-dems-urged-raise-deplorable-725-floor | Source: Common Dreams
08:56 TR Bot; On 13th Anniversary of Last Minimum Wage Hike, Dems Urged to Raise 'Deplorable' $7.25 Floor
08:57 TR News; 3D-Printed Gearbox https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/stackable-3d-printed-gearbox-for-brushless-motor/ | Source: Hackaday
=> ↺ https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/stackable-3d-printed-gearbox-for-brushless-motor/
08:57 TR Bot; 3D-Printed Gearbox For Brushless Motor | Hackaday
08:58 TR News; Laser Engraver https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/interesting-optics-make-this-laser-engraver-fit-in-a-pocket/ | Source: Hackaday
=> ↺ https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/interesting-optics-make-this-laser-engraver-fit-in-a-pocket/
08:58 TR Bot; Optics Make This Laser Engraver Fit In A Pocket | Hackaday
08:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
08:59 TR News; "The last time the UK got through prime ministers this fast was the mid-1970s." https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/24/world-burns-and-richest-profit-it-doesnt-have-be-way | Source: Common Dreams
=> ↺ https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/24/world-burns-and-richest-profit-it-doesnt-have-be-way
08:59 TR Bot; Opinion | The World Burns and the Richest Profit. It Doesn't Have to Be This Way | Adam Ramsay
09:01 TR News; "Multicolor printing on FDM machines can be tricky to get working flawlessly" https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/automated-hotend-swapping-for-less-wasteful-multicolor-printing/ | Source: Hackaday
=> ↺ https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/automated-hotend-swapping-for-less-wasteful-multicolor-printing/
09:01 TR Bot; Hotend Swapping For Less Wasteful Multicolor Printing | Hackaday
09:01 TR News; Inflatable actuators https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/complex-movements-from-simple-inflatables-thanks-to-physics/ | Source: Hackaday
=> ↺ https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/complex-movements-from-simple-inflatables-thanks-to-physics/
09:01 TR Bot; Movements From Simple Inflatables, Thanks To Physics | Hackaday
09:03 TR News; "Managers and executives are in the business of managing people and resources." https://opensource.com/article/22/7/secret-self-organized-teams | Source: OpenSource.com
=> ↺ https://opensource.com/article/22/7/secret-self-organized-teams
09:03 TR Bot; secret to making self-organized teams work in open source | Opensource.com
09:07 *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Leaving)
09:09 TR News; Links 25/07/2022: postmarketOS Considering SourceHut | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/postmarketos-considering-sourcehut/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/postmarketos-considering-sourcehut/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/postmarketos-considering-sourcehut/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/postmarketos-considering-sourcehut/
09:09 TR Bot; Links 25/07/2022: postmarketOS Considering SourceHut | Techrights
09:09 TR News; Collabora Online and LibreOffice Writer Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167629
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167629
09:09 TR Bot; Collabora Online and LibreOffice Writer | Tux Machines
09:09 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167630
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167630
09:09 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines
09:12 TR News; "A fundamental change is coming to desktop Linux, and Silverblue might be our hint at where things are going." https://feed.jupiter.zone/allshows#entry-8630
=> ↺ https://feed.jupiter.zone/allshows#entry-8630
09:14 TR News; New Asahi Linux Release Brings Support for Apple M1 Ultra and M2 CPUs http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167377#comment-34425
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167377#comment-34425
09:14 TR Bot; Asahi Linux adds support for Macs with M2 chips | Tux Machines
09:16 TR News; ICBM: more mindless buzzwords for vendor lockin https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/7/digital-transformation-guiding-principles
=> ↺ https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/7/digital-transformation-guiding-principles
09:16 TR Bot; Digital transformation: 8 guiding principles | The Enterprisers Project
09:17 TR News; ICBM selling buzzwords again https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/7/buying-edge-computing-key-roles
=> ↺ https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/7/buying-edge-computing-key-roles
09:17 TR Bot; Who is buying edge computing? These 6 key roles | The Enterprisers Project
09:18 TR News; Ravi Saive recycles and 'publishes' (again) article... from 7 years ago! https://www.tecmint.com/monit-linux-services-monitoring/
=> ↺ https://www.tecmint.com/monit-linux-services-monitoring/
09:18 TR Bot; Monit - A Tool for Managing and Monitoring Linux Systems
09:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
09:33 phanes; https://www.abuseonline.org/database/Garrett,%20Matthew/controversial_associations/Reichwein,%20Sarah%20Michelle/2019-02-05_Todd_v_Reichwein/2019-07-29-2_Rosenfeld/
09:33 TR Bot; TAODB
09:38 matey; wow
09:38 phanes; yeah
09:38 matey; sort of a technical question
09:39 matey; you dont think this will hurt anyone who has hypothetically been defamed by bringing more attention to it?
09:39 phanes; ill try to answer before my sleep meds kick in
09:39 matey; im sure youve thought of this
09:39 phanes; no i dont
09:40 phanes; most of the time people will hide from defamation after they've been smeared, with understandable anxiety of it coming up again, but the public optics are more sharded than they believe
09:40 matey; and the reason is because of the "whole picture" thread it provides?
09:40 phanes; yes
09:40 matey; good guess then
09:40 phanes; i think in this context, if done competently would provide some level of exoneration of these people
09:40 matey; a lot of the most damaging bullshit of course comes from taking things OUT of context
09:41 matey; you realise i assume AT LEAST one or two of these people ARE guilty
09:41 phanes; yeah i mean, my take in it is that each one of these people and their events need to be investigated just as thoroughly. if there's any merit to the claim then that needs called out.
09:41 matey; i doubt they were all wrongfully defamed. on the other hand it is possible
09:41 phanes; in which case re-hashing it is also appropriate
09:41 matey; right
09:42 phanes; nobody should be cannon fodder and nobody should get out of jail free
09:42 phanes; now
09:42 phanes; if someone's turned their life around
09:42 phanes; maybe some kind of omission can be figured out
09:43 phanes; depending on what it was
09:43 matey; of course
09:46 phanes; there are a couple avenues of retaliation for them
09:46 phanes; i wont say what those are
09:46 phanes; but i can say ive predicted them and am ready for them
09:47 matey; do you know who andrew tate is
09:47 matey; i dont follow british television for years now (years ago more than now) and i JUST found this guy
09:47 phanes; barely, kickboxer right?
09:47 matey; yeah, i guess
09:47 matey; arrested / trump support / kickboxer, arrested for beating wife?
09:48 matey; something something internet
09:48 phanes; didnt hear about any of this
09:48 matey; im just-- this is a aquick distraction from youtubeing
09:48 matey; the main thing i know him from-- also today-- is when he was on ultimate traveller?
09:48 matey; and i was just watching his face and OMG
09:48 matey; douchebag extraordinaire
09:49 matey; like they need a new word for douchebag
09:49 matey; i found the news AFTER that
09:49 phanes; he's a tater?
09:49 matey; sorry?
09:50 phanes; A tater: One who is like Tate
09:50 matey; hmm
09:50 matey; might work
09:50 matey; this is actually tate
09:50 matey; the guy is tate himself
09:50 matey; but if thats the joke, then yes hes like tate too
09:50 phanes; "the tater archetype"
09:51 matey; someday ill tell you who he reminds me of SO MUCH
09:51 matey; but not today
09:51 matey; ill wait until its relevant
09:51 matey; its too bad that creepy is a cliche now
09:52 matey; because too many people use to mean "someone whose traits i just dont like"
09:52 matey; like unfuckable...
09:52 matey; because its a great word for some people who really deserve it
09:53 matey; but you know, things get weaponised
09:53 matey; and people go on misguided crusades
09:53 matey; and people on a legit mission team up with people on bullshit etc
09:53 matey; and so it goes
09:53 phanes; Is this him? https://esports-news.co.uk/2022/07/24/andrew-tate-role-model-opinion/
=> ↺ https://esports-news.co.uk/2022/07/24/andrew-tate-role-model-opinion/
09:53 TR Bot; Andrew Tate: Dangerous role model or an internet idol?
09:54 matey; legit wars and legit missions have to be rarer, because bullshit is too easy for too many
09:54 phanes; b/c i heard that guy talk for like 2 minutes before my brain was like "this guy is a bitch"
09:55 phanes; massive douchebag
09:55 phanes; and i dont particularly like how he treats women
09:56 mjg59_; matey: Basically all the assertions that Todd made in that filing were dismissed by the court in response to further filings
09:57 matey; on what grounds
09:57 phanes; excapt
09:57 phanes; they weren't
09:57 phanes; *except
09:57 matey; ill be happy to hear you both out on this
09:57 matey; i doubt ill be completely satisfied any other way
09:57 mjg59_; matey: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf covers it
=> ↺ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf
09:58 matey; i probably wont bother with any pdfs
09:58 matey; that may seem onesided at first
09:58 phanes; matey, long story short, the defense relied entirely on anti-slapp motions to avoid a contest of the material allegations of the case, and then settled out of court in exchange for publishing the statement "i was not raped by peter todd" on the same twitter account
09:58 *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
09:58 mjg59_; matey: The court concluded that 3 of Todd's claims should be sticken, and that part of his 4th shoudl be stricken
09:59 matey; when ao is a little more populated
09:59 matey; ill be happy to see some stuff on what it may omit
09:59 matey; in the meantime this is noted of course
09:59 phanes; based purely on whether they survive anti-slapp process and not a material contest though
09:59 matey; yeah and you dont like antislapp in this context
10:00 matey; which i get
10:00 phanes; at all
10:00 mjg59_; matey: It's tough to really cut it down into smaller amounts, but the rough version is that a bunch of the original claims weren't actually actionable in terms of defamation, and the assertion that he was a rapist couldn't be considered defamatory because it was based on someone asserting that he'd raped her
10:00 matey; because of the lack of material contest
10:00 phanes; that's pretty close to my understanding of it
10:00 matey; and the assertion that he was a rapist couldn't be considered defamatory because it was based on someone asserting that he'd raped her <- i dont even know what im supposed to do with that
10:00 matey; this isnt aimed at you
10:00 matey; i wouldnt know what to do with that no matter who said it
10:01 mjg59_; matey: If someone tells you that they were raped by someone, and you repeat that assertion, it's not defamatory for you to do so
10:01 matey; this isnt something i can process in realtime
10:01 phanes; unless you orchestrated that confession using your own phones
10:01 matey; matey: If someone tells you that they were raped by someone, and you repeat that assertion, it's not defamatory for you to do so <- that certainly seems straightforward enough
10:02 matey; almost every time you make a straightforward assertion
10:02 matey; phanes makes what seems like a good point
10:02 mjg59_; matey: And that's what happened here - someone told isis that she'd been raped by Todd, isis referenced that, the court concluded that wasn't defamation
10:02 matey; and funnily enough
10:02 matey; every time i think phanes has really "got you"
10:02 matey; you make a point too
10:02 matey; youre both good at this-- and at least one of you should be i guess
10:03 matey; i may simply be unqualified to weigh these points
10:03 mjg59_; matey: phanes has read a subset of the docs (as he's previously admitted), I've read all of them
10:03 matey; but for my own personal edification, ill keep trying
10:03 matey; i dont believe its (usually) as simple as you make it out to be
10:03 matey; but it MIGHT be
10:03 matey; and either way it might be ALMOST
10:03 mjg59_; matey: I mean yeah I can't be trusted to present an unbiased opinion
10:03 matey; who can?
10:04 mjg59_; matey: But I will always attempt to cite my claims here
10:04 matey; you make claims that appear compelling
10:04 mjg59_; matey: And the judge's opinion isn't super complicated
10:04 matey; and may be compelling, or even true
10:04 matey; matey: And the judge's opinion isn't super complicated <- its easy for you, you know
10:04 matey; youre already sure what happened
10:04 matey; once you take that confidence away, this looks more complicated (which isnt the same as being so)
10:04 matey; let me remind you
10:05 matey; that i REALLY suck at math
10:05 matey; and most people i know do quite well with it
10:05 mjg59_; matey: Yeah a lot of this is super into legal bullshit
10:05 matey; and to me its like an alien language
10:05 mjg59_; There's a distinction between pro quod and per se defamation
10:05 matey; not the legal stuff
10:05 phanes; im going to take it a direction that simplifies it a bit
10:05 matey; its like a weird dialect or tedious xml or a combination of the two
10:05 phanes; if you look on our scope statement on TAODB it provides the room needed to do so
10:05 matey; im going to take it a direction that simplifies it a bit <- that can help or hurt
10:05 mjg59_; So
10:06 matey; what i think will really be interesting is when more people weigh in
10:06 mjg59_; Anti-SLAPP stuff is based on "Could what you said potentially result in someone being found guilty"
10:06 matey; i recall you making this point
10:06 mjg59_; And based on Todd's claims, and the defence, most of his claims could not possibly result in a guilty outcome
10:06 matey; which is fine
10:06 matey; so to avoid wasting peoples time (and money)
10:06 phanes; what a convenient interpretation
10:07 matey; im a big fan of antislapp in a corporate context of course
10:07 matey; in this sort of context i can see why phanes might hate it
10:07 matey; with or without good reason
10:07 mjg59_; There was a remaining claim which was that isis asserted that Todd had assaulted them, and because the factual aspects of that were in dispute, it would have to go to actual court to conclude
10:07 matey; either way really
10:07 matey; what makes it simple for me
10:07 matey; part of it that may not help much overall
10:08 matey; is sort of a quick 2x2 truth table
10:08 phanes; in any case, statements not found to be defamatory but serve the same purpose as definition are in scope at TAODB
10:08 mjg59_; But all of isis's other claims could simply not be considered defamatory in court based on the evidence that Todd presented, including that he was a rapist
10:08 matey; in one. you have todd is bullshit and isis isnt
10:08 matey; in the other, isis is and todd isnt
10:08 TR News; The Document Foundation Blog: Community Member Monday With Juan C. Sanz Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167631
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167631
10:08 TR Bot; The Document Foundation Blog: Community Member Monday With Juan C. Sanz | Tux Machines
10:08 matey; then you imagine a defamation lawsuit for each
10:08 phanes; i.e. a statement made, that was not true, that caused damage. there is no legalese at TAODB
10:09 matey; this is super basic
10:09 TR News; 12 Open-source Free LAN Chat and Messenger Apps for Windows, Linux, macOS, and Android Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167632
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167632
10:09 TR Bot; 12 Open-source Free LAN Chat and Messenger Apps for Windows, Linux, macOS, and Android | Tux Machines
10:09 matey; and if slapp CAN throw out legit complaints
10:09 matey; then thats bad for not-bullshit todd
10:09 matey; i mean i dont have to explain the other configurations, they explain themselves
10:09 matey; its easy to see how slapp could be good OR bad UNLESS it works perfectly
10:10 mjg59_; matey: If the plaintif provides meaningful evidence that the claim was untrue, it'll get through an anti-SLAPP case
10:10 matey; if it doesnt work perfectly then sooner or later someone gets the short end of the anti-slapp
10:10 mjg59_; matey: Todd simply didn't - when accused of rape he said "That's false", and provided no evidence to support his claim
10:10 matey; mjg59_> matey: If the plaintif provides meaningful evidence that the claim was untrue, it'll get through an anti-SLAPP case <- it always makes sense when you put things that way
10:10 phanes; "prove this negative"
10:11 phanes; mjg59_, can you prove that you're not a rapist?
10:11 matey; the problem is, it doesnt get me closer to figuring out which side has more credibility
10:11 matey; bob saget, etc
10:11 matey; when a judge weighs evidence, HOPEFULLY, there are witnesses
10:12 matey; what i have here are two people making opposite claims in at least one regard
10:12 mjg59_; matey: I'm honestly not skilled enough here to argue whether or not California's anti-SLAPP statute is good law
10:12 matey; i want other input
10:12 mjg59_; matey: Based on the first amendment lawyers I pay attention to, I think it is, but I can't arguie it myself
10:12 matey; <mjg59_> matey: I'm honestly not skilled enough here to argue whether or not California's anti-SLAPP statute is good law <- that makes two of us
10:12 phanes; because what i see is a whole bunch of shitwads saying horrible things about people everywhere and then screaming about anti-slapp laws when confronted about it like fucking children
10:12 matey; the thing is i love free speech
10:13 phanes; and its the same damned people every time
10:13 matey; i dont thing defamation qualifies as free speech
10:13 phanes; the same circle
10:13 matey; but that doesnt make it simple because
10:13 mjg59_; matey: But the law that the federal court interpreted to come to a conclusion here made it clear that most of Todd's case was without merit
10:13 matey; as we said earlier, defamation-- etc etc etc etc etc
10:13 phanes; and people need to be held accountable for their behaviour. freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.
10:13 matey; <mjg59_> matey: But the law that the federal court interpreted to come to a conclusion here made it clear that most of Todd's case was without merit <- sort of a side point
10:14 mjg59_; phanes: Oh yes you are absolutely free to say anything you wish to about me, within the bounds of defamation law
10:14 matey; but have you ever noticed just how many things you say lean back on authoritative arguments? WHICH IS PROBABLY WARRANTED HERE only
10:14 matey; it doesnt make shit easier
10:14 matey; not that it always can be easy or anything
10:14 phanes; mjg59_, can you prove that you're not a rapist?
10:14 mjg59_; matey: If the argument is whether or not something is defamatory then this feels like the right metric to choose
10:14 TR News; There is NO reason left to using RAR in 2022!! https://www.siliconindia.com/news/general/how-to-open-rar-files-nid-219578-cid-1.html
=> ↺ https://www.siliconindia.com/news/general/how-to-open-rar-files-nid-219578-cid-1.html
10:14 TR Bot; to Open RAR Files | siliconindia
10:15 mjg59_; matey: There's a separate set of discussion about whether it's ok to say something that isn't defamatory
10:15 matey; like i said
10:15 matey; are you good at buffer overflows? they seem kind of archaic now, but have you ever used one in a security context?
10:16 mjg59_; matey: Yeah I'm happy to talk about that for myself, but in a context where someone is trying to make assertions about my partner it's tough
10:16 matey; <mjg59_> matey: Yeah I'm happy to talk about that for myself, but in a context where someone is trying to make assertions about my partner it's tough <- of course
10:16 phanes; you opened this can of worms
10:16 phanes; you insisted that it remain open when approached politely about it
10:16 matey; did he?
10:16 phanes; and then you antagonized the worms
10:16 phanes; and now you're upset that the can is still open and the worms are falling out
10:17 phanes; this is also a you problem
10:17 matey; /me can see how that applies to other instances ofc
10:17 mjg59_; matey: I refused to adhere to a set of private demands
10:17 TR News; RAR does in 1) technically inferior 2) proprietary 3) not widely-supported way what FREE (as in freedom) and widely supported Free/libre software has done for decades. Stop using RAR. If someone sends you a RAR file, explain to him/her it's not necessary. There are better ways. Show them.
10:17 phanes; initially it was "hey you're saying things about me that aren't true, please take it down" and I got a full dick back in irc
10:18 phanes; then he expanded on that claim by exaggerating parts of it to try to stir up activist sentiment
10:18 phanes; as retaliation for truthfully accounting for it
10:18 phanes; and now that we're pulling the details out it turns out you have all these other people
10:18 matey; /me just reads until he can put a string of words together
10:18 phanes; and later on it turns out you have all these close associations of people that are appearing to be doing the same thing
10:19 matey; not counting that one
10:19 phanes; so
10:19 matey; or the second one or this, to be technical
10:19 phanes; you tell me who instigated this
10:19 matey; /me needs jerry lewis to make that cross eyed face
10:19 phanes; i didn't assert this, you're just not handling well that it blew up on you because you now are seeing consequences on the horizon for your shitty collective behaviour
10:19 mjg59_; Is it the person who registered a website to do things, or is it the person's partner who has literally never spoken to that person
10:20 mjg59_; Sorry, "other person's partner"
10:20 phanes; how many opportunities to de-escalate were provided to you?
10:20 TR News; Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633
10:20 TR Bot; Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 | Tux Machines
10:20 mjg59_; phanes: None?
10:20 phanes; mjg59_, then you're lying about that too
10:20 matey; this must be how the constitution feels after scalias been busy interpreting it
10:20 TR News; EM PRO mini - An AMD Ryzen Embedded R1102G fanless mini PC Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167634
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167634
10:21 mjg59_; Everything phanes has offered me as a "get out" has been something that would require me to lie
10:21 mjg59_; Which isn't a de-escalation
10:21 TR Bot; EM PRO mini - An AMD Ryzen Embedded R1102G fanless mini PC | Tux Machines
10:21 phanes; that.. that right there. this is why you're going to keep losing.
10:21 matey; neither of you are terribly interested in "de-escalating" and im not sure i blame either of you for that in this instance
10:21 mjg59_; phanes: Yeah I love you too keep finding excuses to talk to me
10:21 TR News; The Read Only Scenario | LINUX Unplugged 468 https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/149347/the-read-only-scenario-linux-unplugged-468/
=> ↺ https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/149347/the-read-only-scenario-linux-unplugged-468/
10:21 TR Bot; The Read Only Scenario | LINUX Unplugged 468 | Jupiter Broadcasting
10:22 mjg59_; matey: Heh I mean if he just dropped all of this I wouldn't say anything more
10:22 TR News; An Overview of the Linux Operating System for Beginners Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167635
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167635
10:22 TR Bot; An Overview of the Linux Operating System for Beginners | Tux Machines
10:22 matey; thats plausible, stallmans dead
10:22 mjg59_; matey: But yeah I'm not going to say that he's not a dick
10:22 phanes; mjg59_, https://paste.silogroup.org/ekujudanor.erl
=> ↺ https://paste.silogroup.org/ekujudanor.erl
10:22 TR Bot; hastebin
10:23 phanes; mjg59_, did I fabricate that conversation?
10:23 phanes; or are you lying right now?
10:23 mjg59_; phanes: You promised that you'd send me a certified letter and you never did
10:23 matey; /me is just glad phanes didnt turn out to be another white supremacist
10:24 TR News; Microsoft GitHub Expos Part XXV will be published "soon". If we go at a one-per-week pace, it'll carry on another year (50+ parts).
10:24 phanes; see how he distracted from the lie?
10:24 phanes; he knows
10:24 matey; im past the point where i can notice every distraction :)
10:24 mjg59_; phanes: I said I'd make it clear I didn't accuse you of doing anything illegal if you wanted, and you refused to take me up on that
10:25 matey; even when the internet was still allowed to be crazy, it wasnt this crazy
10:25 phanes; mjg59_, nah, that's just what you said on my behalf.
10:25 matey; /me is referring to the past few years as a whole
10:25 phanes; You have a tendency to do that to people I've noticed.
10:26 TR News; Any project that leaves GitHub for something else is a little triumph for software freedom. If self-hosted Git, great! Sadly, Git is getting harder over time (setup). Many Git developers aren't interested in making is simple; it's just some "open core" for proprietary crap like GitHub and GitLab (salary givers). I want to see what comes AFTER Git.
10:26 phanes; Was expanding on that lie on july a de-escalation effort, or was that not a conscious decision to escalate?
10:26 phanes; No sympathy for you man. We tried nice. That doesn't work with you.
10:26 mjg59_; "We"?
10:26 mjg59_; Who is "We"?
10:27 TR News; "Web-based" is the next "Flash". One day many people will realise it mostly sucks and abandon it for something more secure, lighter, less dependent on Internet connectivity and server side setup, fees etc.
10:27 phanes; It's not central to the point.
10:27 mjg59_; But hey like I said, if you think I broke the law then I can give you my lawyer's address
10:27 mjg59_; And if you don't, do whatever
10:27 phanes; Look if you're not literate enough to track pronouns then maybe you shouldn't wine about them so much.
10:28 phanes; This is about ethical disposition and moral compass at this point.
10:28 mjg59_; phanes: Previously you used "I" to refer to yourself
10:28 phanes; It's not something I'm terribly movable on.
10:28 mjg59_; phanes: If you're plural then I apologise, I'll use appropriate pronouns in future
10:28 phanes; I was early on before alot of this came out.
10:28 phanes; Movable on thsi*
10:28 matey; christ
10:29 phanes; but now after seeing all this I don't think we have much room for compromise
10:29 mjg59_; phanes: What are your pronouns?
10:30 phanes; To reiterate: No sympathy for you man. We tried nice. That doesn't work with you.
10:30 mjg59_; phanes: What are your pronouns?
10:30 TR News; Defeatists of the world, calm down. The neo-fascists aren't winning. More than 80% of the globe does not do "Smart" things and more than 90% uses cash all the time. It's easy to judge the future ahead based on those who surround us (in our vicinity). Many will put up resistance, not for being Luddites but for being rational, practical. We're still the "digital majority".
10:31 phanes; goin to bed yall, take care matey
10:31 matey; its probably my imagination, but britney seems like the nicest person ive met in here
10:31 matey; night phanes
10:31 mjg59_; matey: Britney does seem like a good person
10:33 schestowitz[TR2]; britney has been on and off with us since pre 2010
10:33 matey; so shes said
10:33 schestowitz[TR2]; before all that david ike bs
10:34 matey; nobodys perfect i guess
10:35 schestowitz[TR2]; at least it doesn't come up much anyore
10:35 schestowitz[TR2]; it can easily be used to discredit everyone here
10:35 TR News; As many journalists come under attack, TRF launches a free tool to monitor online abuse | Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/news/many-journalists-come-under-attack-trf-launches-free-tool-monitor-online-abuse
10:35 TR Bot; As many journalists come under attack, TRF launches a free tool to monitor online abuse | Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism
10:35 matey; cool about the moon though
10:36 schestowitz[TR2]; what's amusing is that mjg tires to paint us all as an anti-trans thing, when in fact for many years we were always about 5% trans, sometimes highere
10:36 schestowitz[TR2]; *higher
10:36 TR News; Experts Blast Meta Human Rights Report as 'Propaganda' https://gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-first-human-rights-report-myanmar-india-1849197485 Source: gizmodo | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-first-human-rights-report-myanmar-india-1849197485
=> ↺ https://gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-first-human-rights-report-myanmar-india-1849197485
=> ↺ gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-first-human-rights-report-myanmar-india-1849197485
10:36 TR Bot; Experts Blast Meta Human Rights Report as 'Propaganda'
10:36 matey; what's amusing is that mjg tires to paint us all as an anti-trans thing <- i think its more accurate to say that he butts heads with any individual he perceives as being transphobic
10:37 schestowitz[TR2]; he shoudl take on isis
10:37 schestowitz[TR2]; isis slaughters people for much less
10:37 schestowitz[TR2]; infiudeals
10:37 schestowitz[TR2]; gays
10:37 schestowitz[TR2]; *infidels
10:37 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> he shoudl take on isis <- if this is pun not intended, you have pun not intended disease
10:37 schestowitz[TR2]; but I assume his finance chose the name before isil/isis hijacked the acronym
10:37 schestowitz[TR2]; *fiance
10:38 matey; it was an egyptian name before it was a terrorist group
10:38 schestowitz[TR2]; yeah
10:38 schestowitz[TR2]; some businesses here was called Isis
10:38 schestowitz[TR2]; so their ads become transge
10:38 schestowitz[TR2]; *strange
10:38 matey; and the name of a goddess-- which is why its REALLY WEIRD to have an ISLAMic (monotheist) terrorist group called that
10:38 schestowitz[TR2]; like the marketing slogan
10:38 matey; but its an acronym right?
10:39 TR News; Koodo is an All-in-one Open Source eBook Reader for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167636
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167636
10:39 TR Bot; Koodo is an All-in-one Open Source eBook Reader for Linux | Tux Machines
10:39 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: nobody reads it as an acronym
10:39 matey; "you guys named yourselves after an egyptian goddess?"
10:39 schestowitz[TR2]; because of the vowels
10:39 schestowitz[TR2]; unlike YMCA
10:40 matey; "no, that was achmed, we constantly give him shit for it"
10:40 schestowitz[TR2]; "i kill ya!"|
10:40 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: I have new examples of github beingf rejected
10:40 schestowitz[TR2]; it's like skype circa 2016
10:40 matey; if ymca was a terrorist group, they would round people up and make them play sports with automatic weapons aimed at them
10:40 matey; "PLAY, PLAY PLAY!"
10:40 matey; "but..."
10:41 matey; BANG!
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; give it another half a decade, maybe github will be 20% of new projects
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; or less
10:41 matey; "I SAID PLAY NOW!"
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; microsoft keeps the cards close to its chest
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; read: hides it
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; like vista 11 usage number
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; that ALWAYS means it's not goo
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; because they lose to boast and exaggerate
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; so I assure you they have reasons for concern there
10:41 schestowitz[TR2]; CEO removed
10:42 schestowitz[TR2]; I posted in another channel the gravevine stuff
10:42 schestowitz[TR2]; why he was thrown under the buss
10:42 schestowitz[TR2]; miguel also... still studying material from a legla case
10:42 schestowitz[TR2]; Microsoft is not ina good shape, BUT IT IS FIGHTING LIKE HELL
10:42 matey; if ymca was a terrorist group, steve ballmer could be the youth coach
10:42 schestowitz[TR2]; some people thought one day Microsoft will just gfo,
10:42 schestowitz[TR2]; "well, ok, Linux won"
10:42 schestowitz[TR2]; and lie down
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; but Windows is sttill out there
10:43 matey; i think that was esr
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; not they put up the bolts on laptops
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; "secure" boot
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; they are fighting
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; and they try to capture all our orgs
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; decapitation strategy
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; SPI paid by Microsoft
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; hired lawyers
10:43 matey; if ymca was a terrorist group, you think esrs militia would kill them?
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; attacks people who criticise Microsoft
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; btw, Arch is also connected to SPI
10:43 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> and they try to capture all our orgs <- seems to be working
10:43 schestowitz[TR2]; so similar problems over the horizon
10:44 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> btw, Arch is also connected to SPI <- GROSS
10:44 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: it is esr's "OBLIGATION"
10:44 schestowitz[TR2]; apropois:
10:44 *schestowitz[TR2] finds link
10:44 matey; obladi, obliga, mote it be, YAAAAA
10:44 matey; YAYA crazy esr
10:44 matey; ive seen it
10:44 schestowitz[TR2]; Nearly one in three Americans say it may soon be necessary to take up arms against the government | The Hill https://thehill.com/homenews/3572278-nearly-one-in-three-americans-say-it-may-soon-be-necessary-to-take-up-arms-against-the-government/ Source: thehill
10:44 TR Bot; Nearly one in three Americans say it may soon be necessary to take up arms against the government | The Hill
10:45 matey; im all for a well-organised militia, but are the viking hats mandatory?
10:46 matey; hey roy do you know andrew tate? not like personally
10:46 schestowitz[TR2]; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate
=> ↺ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate
10:46 TR Bot; Andrew Tate - Wikipedia
10:47 schestowitz[TR2]; only "now"...
10:48 schestowitz[TR2]; I thought it would be some sugar tycoon/heir
10:49 matey; may be i never heard of him before today
10:49 matey; i guess hes been arrested
10:51 matey; "ive never exploited anyone in my life"-- andrew tate as a man in the prime of his career
10:52 matey; "im going to manipulate them all"-- andrew tate in a reality show with a $10,000 prize
10:52 matey; "use them as weapons"
10:52 schestowitz[TR2]; he seems to be tied with luton
10:52 matey; reality tv is REALLY terrible
10:52 schestowitz[TR2]; when you say luton in the UK these days peoole get ideas
10:52 matey; i wont judge luton for their misfortune
10:53 matey; i guess everyone else does
10:53 matey; i still associate luton with morcambe and wise, but im sure thats out of date
10:53 matey; morcambe is dead and i have no idea what the status of ernie wise is
10:53 schestowitz[TR2]; now it's infested with two sides of the religious wars
10:54 schestowitz[TR2]; eds et al
10:54 schestowitz[TR2]; edl
10:54 matey; yay
10:54 schestowitz[TR2]; openbytes' tim used to live there
10:54 schestowitz[TR2]; it's known for racists and airport
10:54 schestowitz[TR2]; lol racist aipor.. maybe
10:54 matey; is the airport racist?
10:54 schestowitz[TR2]; no
10:54 schestowitz[TR2]; not that I saw
10:54 matey; they probably all are
10:55 matey; most of the planes are white
10:55 schestowitz[TR2]; but I was there several times and I remember when they confisicstacated an ol' ladies water plastic bobble wiuth just ice in it
10:55 schestowitz[TR2]; she could not save her new fashionable bottle
10:55 schestowitz[TR2]; as she could not melt the ice
10:55 schestowitz[TR2]; solid
10:56 schestowitz[TR2]; maybe they thought it was "anti-freeze" ^_^
10:56 matey; why did they confiscate it
10:56 schestowitz[TR2]; obviously she was gonna bomb the place
10:56 matey; auntie freeze
10:56 schestowitz[TR2]; with her icy beverage plastic bottle
10:56 schestowitz[TR2]; if it was water, she could empty it and keep the bottle
10:56 schestowitz[TR2]; she was next to me
10:56 matey; after batman returns you just cant be too careful
10:56 schestowitz[TR2]; and they didn't say much
10:56 schestowitz[TR2]; just took it away like a bunch of zombies
10:57 schestowitz[TR2]; probably stole it later (the staff)
10:57 schestowitz[TR2]; "that's a nice bottle you got there, it'd be a shame...";
10:57 matey; like taking a bottle from an old lady
10:57 schestowitz[TR2]; bottle of ice
10:57 schestowitz[TR2]; solid
10:57 schestowitz[TR2]; obv. a bomkb
10:57 schestowitz[TR2]; and later they wonder why people like me won't fly
10:57 matey; that was just cold
10:58 schestowitz[TR2]; cold as ice
10:58 matey; ive seen it before it happens all the time
10:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
10:59 schestowitz[TR2]; luton is where many of the "budget" 'air' 'lines' go
10:59 schestowitz[TR2]; to save money
10:59 schestowitz[TR2]; and then have tourists go another 40 mins by train/bus
10:59 matey; runway is always clear because who the fuck wants to go to luton anyway
11:00 matey; "yalriiiiight?"
11:00 schestowitz[TR2]; budget travelklers
11:00 schestowitz[TR2]; we used to have gatwick as a client
11:00 schestowitz[TR2]; deployed some free sofwtare for them
11:00 schestowitz[TR2]; on panels and such
11:00 schestowitz[TR2]; because we sucked
11:00 matey; i heard
11:00 schestowitz[TR2]; and lost many of the talented staff
11:01 schestowitz[TR2]; *before
11:01 schestowitz[TR2]; now we suck
11:01 matey; open suck
11:01 schestowitz[TR2]; we're like mozilla in 2 years
11:01 schestowitz[TR2]; we were mozilla before the pandemic
11:01 schestowitz[TR2]; now we're mozilla++
11:01 matey; does the ceo get paid like that? i bet not
11:01 schestowitz[TR2]; haha, no
11:01 schestowitz[TR2]; he took paycut, he said
11:02 matey; im sure he wouldnt mind, he could buy the company and-- i dunno
11:02 matey; probably about ready to retire anyway
11:02 schestowitz[TR2]; I will leave "soon"
11:02 matey; one of the best words in tech
11:02 matey; and the worst
11:03 schestowitz[TR2]; hence quotes
11:03 schestowitz[TR2]; I cannot say when
11:03 matey; that one always has quotes
11:03 schestowitz[TR2]; negotiating money
11:04 schestowitz[TR2]; 11.5 years is a lot in accrued capital
11:04 mjg59_; schestowitz[TR2]: I feel like "not as bad as ISIS" is not the standard we should hold our communities to
11:05 *schestowitz[TR2] wastes no time arguing over this anymore
11:05 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: I did some online calculator thing
11:05 mjg59_; If ISIS thought software patents were bad, I'd still criticise them
11:05 schestowitz[TR2]; I might be entitled to 17k
11:06 schestowitz[TR2]; almost's a year's salary
11:06 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167637
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167637
11:06 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
11:06 mjg59_; schestowitz[TR2]: When did you last criticise a transphobic group?
11:08 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> almost's a year's salary <- wild
11:09 matey; <mjg59_> schestowitz[TR2]: When did you last criticise a transphobic group? <- in the vaguest terms he probably does so often
11:09 matey; if only inadvertently
11:11 matey; /me can think of two trans individuals who are probably the best people to try to hold roy to his trans-supportive obligations
11:12 matey; unless theyve tried and failed
11:12 TR News; Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633#comment-34426
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633#comment-34426
11:12 TR Bot; Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 | Tux Machines
11:13 TR News; SUSE is not about GNU/Linux anymore https://www.suse.com/c/navigating-the-rapidly-evolving-world-of-retail/
=> ↺ https://www.suse.com/c/navigating-the-rapidly-evolving-world-of-retail/
11:13 TR Bot; the rapidly evolving world of retail | SUSE Communities
11:14 matey; make it three, but i think the other two are more fair
11:14 matey; (to them, i mean)
11:14 TR News; riscv: enable Docker requirements in defconfig https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/riscv/linux.git/commit/?h=for-next&id=ba6cfef057e1c594c456627aad81c2343fdb5d13
11:14 TR Bot; kernel/git/riscv/linux.git - RISC-V Linux kernel tree
11:16 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: they should ask Torvalds
11:16 schestowitz[TR2]; not that he would answer
11:16 schestowitz[TR2]; would say he's busy, go to another room
11:16 schestowitz[TR2]; when it comes to EPO
11:16 schestowitz[TR2]; we had a very awesome transactivist helping us
11:17 schestowitz[TR2]; making caricatures and making full article translations from dutch
11:17 schestowitz[TR2]; one day I mistakenly conflated identity and gander
11:17 schestowitz[TR2]; and she flipped out over it
11:17 schestowitz[TR2]; *gender
11:17 schestowitz[TR2]; I didn't even understand what I had done
11:17 TR News; DebConf22 closes in Prizren and DebConf23 dates announced Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167638
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167638
11:17 TR Bot; DebConf22 closes in Prizren and DebConf23 dates announced | Tux Machines
11:18 TR News; Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Oracle Business Intelligence Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167639
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167639
11:18 TR Bot; Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Oracle Business Intelligence | Tux Machines
11:18 TR News; Compact3566 - A Rockchip RK3566 SBC that closely follows Raspberry Pi 3 form factor Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167640
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167640
11:18 TR Bot; Compact3566 - A Rockchip RK3566 SBC that closely follows Raspberry Pi 3 form factor | Tux Machines
11:19 matey; some people on the left are extremely sensitive about honest mistakes
11:19 matey; some have good reason to be. others are jerks
11:19 schestowitz[TR2]; hypersensitive in this case
11:19 schestowitz[TR2]; blocked me right away
11:19 matey; the right portrays itself as thick skinned. we all know this is bullshit
11:19 schestowitz[TR2]; no chance to explain to me the difference, around 2015 that was
11:19 schestowitz[TR2]; lesser awareness back then
11:20 matey; stress and trauma are two things i think you dont understand really well
11:20 matey; but then thats not uncommon
11:21 matey; im not saying you havent experienced stress and trauma
11:21 matey; ive certainly experienced some things i dont really much understand
11:21 matey; like im not a biologist, so any time ive been sick, my understanding of it has limits
11:22 *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
11:22 mjg59_; schestowitz[TR2]: People who've had to deal with a lot of shit in the physical world are usually not tolerant of dealing with the same in the virtual world
11:23 mjg59_; schestowitz[TR2]: They can just choose to be in online places where they don't deal with it instead
11:23 *techuser (~techuser@6nvxnbfs9k26u.irc) has joined #techrights
11:23 matey; at least until those online places get taken over by people who say they have no right to be there :)
11:23 mjg59_; schestowitz[TR2]: If people don't have a belief that you're someone they can trust to have a decent conversation on the topic with then the easy thing is to just peace out
11:25 matey; i think roys complaint that he wasnt given a chance is plausible
11:26 matey; i think the guess that such a conversation would be frustrating (to the point of being pointless) is possible
11:26 mjg59_; matey: I agree, but my guess would be it's based on history not just a single incident. I might well be wrong.
11:26 TR News; just received by post: we'll give you 5 pounds to participate in survey (online). But MANDATES "QR code"... so I guess the survey will exclude people like us who don't use mobile "phone". How NOT to conduct surveys.
11:26 matey; this is a community where youd have to be obtuse just to stay here for a few days
11:28 schestowitz[TR2]; online escapism is a huge problem in kids
11:28 schestowitz[TR2]; some aree incapable of interacting with people facer to face
11:28 schestowitz[TR2]; those born just before covid-19 will have cues deficit
11:28 matey; that isnt entirely new
11:28 schestowitz[TR2]; until an older age
11:29 schestowitz[TR2]; I heard of people who use "self-service" because they are anxious about facing a real person
11:29 schestowitz[TR2]; esp. a streranger
11:29 matey; https://luxai.com/robot-for-teaching-children-with-autism-at-home/
=> ↺ https://luxai.com/robot-for-teaching-children-with-autism-at-home/
11:30 TR Bot; QTrobot, Educational robot for at home education of children with autism
11:30 schestowitz[TR2]; meanwhile, biden fist-bumpsd a murderer
11:30 schestowitz[TR2]; putin did a high-five with him just months after jamal's "culling"
11:30 schestowitz[TR2]; so oiligarchs and oligarchs (overlap exists) don't value life
11:30 schestowitz[TR2]; we see it here in covid-19 policies
11:31 schestowitz[TR2]; football resumes next week, packed stadiums
11:31 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> I heard of people who use "self-service" because they are anxious about facing a real person <- the amount of othering you do, and the sheer number of traits you decide to other
11:31 matey; im sure you have no idea how staggering it is
11:31 schestowitz[TR2]; the staff is usually forced to be polite
11:31 matey; but the only thing not "normal" about this stuff is the rate
11:31 schestowitz[TR2]; happiness is not optional
11:32 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> happiness is not optional <- thats bad management
11:32 schestowitz[TR2]; matey: I didn't see surveys across time lapses
11:32 matey; im curious-- and im curious because i DONT think it comes from the "top"
11:32 schestowitz[TR2]; but I was sold those by apologists of self-checkout
11:32 schestowitz[TR2]; and those machines did not exist before but were totally feasible to make
11:32 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> matey: I didn't see surveys across time lapses <- this would not require your formal training in statistics
11:32 matey; im curious-- and im curious because i DONT think it comes from the "top"
11:33 matey; where the bad management comes from
11:33 schestowitz[TR2]; it's hard to judge and compare
11:33 schestowitz[TR2]; as things changed
11:33 matey; if its the ceo i dont expect you to say
11:33 matey; but i actually assume its NOT the ceo
11:33 schestowitz[TR2]; when I was a kid, if another kid screamed, it would peiece my ears
11:33 schestowitz[TR2]; that does not happen anymore
11:33 matey; thats why its a small mystery
11:33 schestowitz[TR2]; as mny hearing range and amplitutes aren;'t ther same
11:33 schestowitz[TR2]; and same for how I perceive people's shyness
11:33 schestowitz[TR2]; so comparing studies across generations is a hard problem
11:34 schestowitz[TR2]; because of perspective, scopes
11:34 matey; society evolves
11:34 matey; or if you prefer, all men are devo
11:34 schestowitz[TR2]; also, as kids, it was common to let uis walk on our own in the streets
11:34 matey; yeah
11:34 schestowitz[TR2]; I am quite sure oit objective got worse since tthen
11:34 schestowitz[TR2]; *objectively
11:34 schestowitz[TR2]; and can be measured, too
11:34 schestowitz[TR2]; now there are laws that can impact parents
11:34 matey; helicopter parenting is bad for society yes
11:35 schestowitz[TR2]; ranging from fines to loss of custody or "training"
11:35 matey; whether in its literal form (with actual heli-- kidding) whether literally with parents
11:35 schestowitz[TR2]; in trick and treat we don't get kids anymore
11:35 schestowitz[TR2]; now it's parents
11:35 matey; or figuratively with all this spy on your kid tech
11:35 schestowitz[TR2]; and a bunch of kids with them
11:35 schestowitz[TR2]; speaking for them
11:35 schestowitz[TR2]; to "protect" them
11:35 matey; fucking movies and sensationalist
11:35 schestowitz[TR2]; i mean, it's not like people here open the doors wearing robes and varnishing candy
11:36 matey; the kids would be safe if esr armed them all and took them to the range
11:37 matey; i do think a well-armed populace is a good idea. im sure there are sane people who can assess how to teach kids about guns, but that counts out esr
11:37 schestowitz[TR2]; militia fatacists
11:37 schestowitz[TR2]; if you ask them to be less armed, then they make the excuses
11:37 schestowitz[TR2]; like, NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE are armed
11:37 schestowitz[TR2]; *fanatics/fantasists
11:38 matey; im sure youre familiar with the concept of a therapeutic dose
11:38 matey; it can be lower or higher than therapeutic
11:38 schestowitz[TR2]; esr is gone btw
11:38 schestowitz[TR2]; he stopped blogging
11:39 matey; though im not sure if you can have too many guns if theyre distributed well enough and people are responsible with them
11:39 matey; you keep saying that
11:39 schestowitz[TR2]; rms was not happy about how esr had been trated
11:39 schestowitz[TR2]; but that was after they did the same to rms
11:39 matey; rms doesnt really seem to know whats going on
11:39 schestowitz[TR2]; so maybe on some level there was solidarity. #metoo #cancelculture
11:39 matey; id just assume hes being lied to regularly
11:39 matey; like the king in the two towers
11:40 schestowitz[TR2]; for the planet, morew guns are good
11:40 matey; i dont think #metoo is used that way
11:40 schestowitz[TR2]; for the planet
11:40 schestowitz[TR2]; it's humans lowering their numbers
11:40 matey; the planet will manage. its the humans who need to get their shit together
11:40 schestowitz[TR2]; i THINK NUCLEAR CONFLICT IS ALSO LESS VALUABLE WITH GUERILLA WARFARE (RIFLES)
11:40 schestowitz[TR2]; sorry, caps
11:40 matey; its funny when you do that
11:41 schestowitz[TR2]; you can see the small i
11:41 schestowitz[TR2]; I am eating
11:41 schestowitz[TR2]; rianne made rice pudding
11:41 matey; good stuff
11:41 schestowitz[TR2]; she goes to yorkshire tomorrow, leaving me on my own for 3 days
11:41 matey; if theres enough pudding that will keep you going for a few days
11:42 schestowitz[TR2]; freezer is full
11:42 matey; nice
11:44 matey; have you seen phanes website
11:44 schestowitz[TR2]; no
11:44 schestowitz[TR2]; I keep distance
11:44 matey; hes so meticulous about the data
11:44 matey; its like a zen rock garden
11:44 schestowitz[TR2]; tbh, I don't like his methods
11:44 schestowitz[TR2]; and he harmed freenode
11:45 schestowitz[TR2]; said a freenode nda is due to expire next year
11:45 schestowitz[TR2]; so we may know what exactly happened in 20221
11:45 matey; he and ariadne are frenemies? enemies?
11:45 matey; former associates
11:46 schestowitz[TR2]; "if that your "sword of truth" or are you just excited to see me?"
11:46 matey; ill-wanted aquaintances
11:46 TR News; [PATCH 0/5] drm/vkms: Add ConfigFS Support - Jim Shargo https://lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/20220722215001.1380608-1-jshargo@chromium.org/ Source: chromium | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/20220722215001.1380608-1-jshargo@chromium.org/
=> ↺ https://lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/20220722215001.1380608-1-jshargo@chromium.org/
=> ↺ gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/20220722215001.1380608-1-jshargo@chromium.org/
11:46 TR Bot; [PATCH 0/5] drm/vkms: Add ConfigFS Support - Jim Shargo
11:46 matey; he enjoys a bit of theatrics
11:46 TR News; MediaTek buddies with back doors company that makes defective chips. Taking note... https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-july-2022-announce.html
=> ↺ https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-july-2022-announce.html
11:46 TR Bot; and MediaTek Form Foundry Partnership
11:46 matey; quite modestly, compared to esr
11:47 matey; then again, maybe i just havent known him long enough (or at all)
11:48 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> tbh, I don't like his methods <- i realise your protest may extend beyond this example but
11:48 TR News; Intel and Microsoft love to "sponsor" (read: buy, corrupt, infiltrate) CS labs. Seen it all before. Do not go study in a university that "partners" with those malicious companies. You don't learn, you're being preached to (corporate religion).
11:48 matey; you seem to be against ANY serious confrontation with the coup
11:49 matey; that would certainly include what hes doing
11:49 TR News; [PATCH 0/9] Samsung Trinity NPU device driver - Jiho Chu https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725065308.2457024-1-jiho.chu@samsung.com/ Source: samsung | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725065308.2457024-1-jiho.chu@samsung.com/
=> ↺ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725065308.2457024-1-jiho.chu@samsung.com/
=> ↺ gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725065308.2457024-1-jiho.chu@samsung.com/
11:49 TR Bot; [PATCH 0/9] Samsung Trinity NPU device driver - Jiho Chu
11:49 TR News; Does DARPA/DoD "approve" Chinese patches in Linux? [PATCH 0/4] faster kexec reboot - Albert Huang https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725083904.56552-1-huangjie.albert@bytedance.com/ Source: bytedance | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725083904.56552-1-huangjie.albert@bytedance.com/
=> ↺ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725083904.56552-1-huangjie.albert@bytedance.com/
=> ↺ gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725083904.56552-1-huangjie.albert@bytedance.com/
11:49 TR Bot; [PATCH 0/4] faster kexec reboot - Albert Huang
11:50 schestowitz[TR2]; then again, maybe i just havent known him long enough (or at all)
11:50 schestowitz[TR2]; http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/freenode-takes-control-of-fsf-channel.txt
=> http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/freenode-takes-control-of-fsf-channel.txt
11:51 TR News; Ewww.. DRM on GNU/Linux https://trendoceans.com/watch-netflix-linux/
=> ↺ https://trendoceans.com/watch-netflix-linux/
11:51 TR Bot; Watching Netflix on Linux with Chrome/Firefox - TREND OCEANS
11:52 matey; @bagira And not in any way related to me falling off a uhaul and landing on my knee a few weeks later.
11:52 matey; and landing on my knee
11:52 matey; a few weeks later.
11:52 matey; where the fuck was he parked
11:53 TR News; Software freedom isn't a battle that can be won, only forever fought. Those who oppose it do so for ideological reasons (they want total power), going back to the beginning of "time" (human civilisation). So the process of fending off, fighting back is what's important. Every little helps.
11:56 psydruid; > [notice] Intel and MediaTek Form Foundry Partnership
11:56 psydruid; This is not actually a bad thing, as this will allow Intel to go back to its roots as a semiconductor fabrication company
11:56 psydruid; There should be many more of those from more companies, so chips can be manufactured based on the best conditions for the chip designer
11:56 psydruid; So far there are TSMC, Samsung, Intel, GlobalFoundries, SMIC, ST, Bosch and a number of smaller ones
11:56 matey; im too tired to process 8,000 lines of text i already looked at (almost certainly) last year
11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; there is am key portion
11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; where banning starts
11:59 matey; i dont doubt it
11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/fsf-channel-canceled.txt
=> http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/fsf-channel-canceled.txt
11:59 schestowitz[TR2]; shorter
12:00 matey; i probably wouldnt like him as an ircop
12:00 schestowitz[TR2]; irkkkop
12:00 TR News; Links 25/07/2022: Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022, DebConf23 Dates Announced | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/berlin-mini-guadec-2022/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/berlin-mini-guadec-2022/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/berlin-mini-guadec-2022/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/berlin-mini-guadec-2022/
12:00 TR Bot; Links 25/07/2022: Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022, DebConf23 Dates Announced | Techrights
12:00 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167641
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167641
12:00 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines
12:01 schestowitz[TR2]; here, MinceR is the cop
12:01 schestowitz[TR2]; if orban entered
12:01 schestowitz[TR2]; instant or-BAN
12:03 TR News; Nonsensical, worthless gimmicks to melt greenwashing yuppies https://spectrum.ieee.org/mobile-ev-charging-robot
=> ↺ https://spectrum.ieee.org/mobile-ev-charging-robot
12:03 TR Bot; This Car Charger Bot Will Also Hold Your Spot - IEEE Spectrum
12:03 matey; if he murdered orban on sight i wouldnt be too shocked about it
12:04 matey; maybe we could give him a medal
12:04 TR News; HEY HI (AI).... it's everywhere, it's omnipotent, omnipresent... HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HE HEY HEY.. show some respect to the HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-ai-still-doesnt-know-how-to-do-11657891316
=> ↺ https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-ai-still-doesnt-know-how-to-do-11657891316
12:04 TR Bot; AI Still Doesnt Know How to Do - WSJ
12:04 matey; as for phanes
12:04 matey; and a bunch of other people
12:04 matey; freenode was fucked for some time
12:05 matey; joe rogan talked about what it does to you
12:05 matey; to be in charge of security at a concert even
12:05 matey; maybe having ops on too large a network for too long
12:05 matey; makes a lot of people feel like a great flood isnt such a bad idea
12:05 TR News; Cargo cults spreading with hype https://news.yale.edu/2022/06/29/blockchain-not-just-bitcoin-it-can-secure-and-store-genomes-too
=> ↺ https://news.yale.edu/2022/06/29/blockchain-not-just-bitcoin-it-can-secure-and-store-genomes-too
12:05 TR Bot; Blockchain not just for bitcoin: It can secure and store genomes, too | YaleNews
12:05 matey; cleanse the earth again
12:06 matey; its not a great idea
12:06 matey; but it happens?
12:06 schestowitz[TR2]; after we die :-)
12:06 schestowitz[TR2]; obviously
12:06 matey; that would be the whole point, yes
12:06 matey; and this is about freednode
12:06 schestowitz[TR2]; we'll never live to see it
12:06 schestowitz[TR2]; but
12:06 schestowitz[TR2]; one person might temporarily see it
12:07 schestowitz[TR2]; the binary switch
12:07 schestowitz[TR2]; on the death bed
12:07 schestowitz[TR2]; "annnnnd... i'm GONE"
12:07 schestowitz[TR2]; technicallyu we don't know the name of the last dinosaur to live
12:07 schestowitz[TR2]; some bird look like dinosaurs to me
12:07 matey; philip
12:07 schestowitz[TR2]; *birds
12:07 matey; chickens are small dinosaurs
12:08 matey; so is pelosi
12:09 TR News; "Being anonymous on the internet isn't impossible, but it sure as hell isn't easy either. You have a name, a face, and email address, a phone number... these things, and more, are being asked of us all the time to prove our legitimacy on countless websites." http://flower.codes/2022/07/22/anonymity-pseudonymity.html
=> ↺ http://flower.codes/2022/07/22/anonymity-pseudonymity.html
12:09 TR Bot; ( status 308 @ http://flower.codes/2022/07/22/anonymity-pseudonymity.html )
=> ↺ http://flower.codes/2022/07/22/anonymity-pseudonymity.html
12:10 TR News; Brain-computer interface (BCI) startup Synchron implanted a wire-electrode combination in the brain of a U.S. patient with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, attempting to enable the patient to perform thought-powered Web surfing, email, and texting. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-18/brain-computer-interface-company-implants-new-type-of-device
12:10 TR Bot; - Are you a robot?
12:12 TR News; Webspam again. Catalogues disguised as "reviews" or "comparisons" (spammy links). The WWW is dead, it just doesn't know it yet. Spam/noise to signal ratio is awful. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-laptops/
=> ↺ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-laptops/
12:12 TR Bot; The 9 Best Laptops for 2022 | Reviews by Wirecutter
12:14 TR News; Microsoft (NSA) lying: "The gist of Microsofts 2010 Windows Phone campaign was the sameeveryone devotes too much attention to their phones and Microsoft has hit upon a solution." The solution is not to have one! https://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/10/11/wp7-ad
=> ↺ https://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/10/11/wp7-ad
12:14 TR Bot; Daring Fireball: First Windows Phone 7 Ad From Microsoft
12:15 TR News; Imagine wasting your time on bullshit like this... https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/splash-screen-in-android/
=> ↺ https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/splash-screen-in-android/
12:15 TR Bot; Splash Screen in Android - GeeksforGeeks
12:16 TR News; "Gates panicked, lied to Brainerd"... is Brainerd dead yet? https://liam-on-linux.dreamwidth.org/84930.html
=> ↺ https://liam-on-linux.dreamwidth.org/84930.html
12:16 TR Bot; liam_on_linux | Why MS Word jumped from version 2 to version 6
12:17 TR News; The Bill Gates lesson: BRIBE the media and it'll idolise it DESPITE your role enabling a child sex smuggling ring
12:19 TR News; Even Warren B, Bill's BFF, found Gates role in enabling Jeffrey Epstein, his other BFF, too much to swallow. And he's in his 80s, his not an 8 year old...
12:20 TR News; WARNING: Dont Toast your Steam Deck (plus other Deck news) - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=m0H3Yte_BDs | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/m0H3Yte_BDs
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=m0H3Yte_BDs
=> ↺ gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/m0H3Yte_BDs
12:20 TR Bot; WARNING: Don't Toast your Steam Deck (plus other Deck news) - Invidious
12:20 TR News; "In the thirty-sixth episode of the WordPress Briefing, Josepha Haden Chomphosy revisits the Beginners Guide to Contributions to the WordPress open source project." https://wordpress.org/news/2022/07/episode-36-beginners-guide-to-contributions-2-0/
=> ↺ https://wordpress.org/news/2022/07/episode-36-beginners-guide-to-contributions-2-0/
12:20 TR Bot; Episode 36: Beginners Guide to Contributions 2.0 WordPress News
12:21 TR News; BT does not belong on earpieces. It's a waste of circuitry https://www.addictivetips.com/apple-2/how-to-change-the-name-of-your-airpods/
=> ↺ https://www.addictivetips.com/apple-2/how-to-change-the-name-of-your-airpods/
12:21 TR Bot; ( status 403 @ https://www.addictivetips.com/apple-2/how-to-change-the-name-of-your-airpods/ )
=> ↺ https://www.addictivetips.com/apple-2/how-to-change-the-name-of-your-airpods/
12:22 TR News; "Look ma! No cords/wires" is the nea sneakers with lights in 'em... totally impractical, overrated. The power of marketing.
12:24 TR News; We should remind people that using wireless devices where wired works perfectly well is BAD FOR THE PLANET. E.g. "wireless" mice... that might generate a big pile of chemical batteries in their lifetime.
12:28 TR News; Brazil commits genocide against the rainforests and pollutes rivers, says the hypocritical yuppie on a jumbo aircraft, running a laptop on batteries while flying from one country which completely deforested itself to another country which completely deforested itself.
12:29 TR News; CPU-X The Best Linux Alternative Of CPU-Z Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167642
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167642
12:29 TR Bot; CPU-X The Best Linux Alternative Of CPU-Z | Tux Machines
12:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
12:33 TR News; Average number of incoming links in Geminispace peaked weeks ago gemini://botond.online/en/stats/
=> ↺ gemini://botond.online/en/stats/
12:41 *psydroid2 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #techrights
12:43 TR News; E44: Open Source Auth-as-a-Service by Aserto https://anchor.fm/ossstartuppodcast/episodes/E44-Open-Source-Auth-as-a-Service-by-Aserto-e1lh3od "-as-a-Service" typically means as a serf, not software freedom, even if the server side is FS-based
=> ↺ https://anchor.fm/ossstartuppodcast/episodes/E44-Open-Source-Auth-as-a-Service-by-Aserto-e1lh3od
12:43 TR Bot; E44: Open Source Auth-as-a-Service by Aserto by Open Source Startup Podcast
12:44 TR News; "Hello everyone. This is a brief update on the Ham project - a drop in replacement for the Jam build system. For those more curious about the technical details, there will be a larger blog post on Hams action modifier implementation coming soon." https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/dominicm/2022-07-21_gsoc_2022_ham_status_update/
=> ↺ https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/dominicm/2022-07-21_gsoc_2022_ham_status_update/
12:44 TR Bot; [GSoC 2022] Ham: Status Update | Haiku Project
12:47 TR News; Clickfraud spamnil is now doping on the fraud. Take my word for it: just a matter of time before Gulag suspends his YouTube channel. How does James Zemlin (and Sheela Microsoft) justify such practices? http://techrights.org/2022/06/08/lf-defrauding-clients/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/06/08/lf-defrauding-clients/
12:47 TR Bot; New Lows: Linux Foundation Defrauding Clients | Techrights
12:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
13:00 TR News; UK Not Testing Enough for COVID-19 (More Than 1 in 10 Now Test Positive, But Testing Rates at New Lows) https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/25/not-enough-tests/
=> ↺ https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/25/not-enough-tests/
13:00 TR Bot; Blog Archive UK Not Testing Enough for COVID-19 (More Than 1 in 10 Now Test Positive, But Testing Rates at New Lows)
13:01 TR News; Brexitnaro Johnson killed our economy
13:01 TR News;
13:02 TR News; On GNOME advocacy Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167643
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167643
13:02 TR Bot; On GNOME advocacy | Tux Machines
13:12 *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
13:13 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
13:17 psydroid2; https://pine64eu.com/product/14-inch-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-ansi-us-keyboard/
=> ↺ https://pine64eu.com/product/14-inch-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-ansi-us-keyboard/
13:17 TR Bot; 14 PINEBOOK Pro LINUX LAPTOP - PINE64 EU
13:18 psydroid2; you get 2 years of warranty but it's out of stock
13:18 psydroid2; hopefully they'll start working on a new one with a better SoC
13:33 TR News; [Meme] The EPOs Great Leap Forward | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/
13:33 TR Bot; [Meme] The EPOs Great Leap Forward | Techrights
13:33 matey; you get 2 years of warranty but it's out of stock
13:33 matey; sweet
13:33 matey; hopefully they'll start working on a new one with a better SoC <- yeah
13:34 matey; <schestowitz[TR2]> technicallyu we don't know the name of the last dinosaur to live <- nessie!
13:34 schestowitz[TR2]; as if..
13:34 matey; or bessie
13:34 matey; or tessie
13:34 schestowitz[TR2]; she mated with a small dino
13:34 schestowitz[TR2]; a rooster
13:49 TR News; [Meme] The EPOs Unprecedented Surge | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/
13:49 TR Bot; [Meme] The EPOs Unprecedented Surge | Techrights
13:55 TR News; HP Dev One Linux Laptop Review: The Best for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167644
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167644
13:55 TR Bot; HP Dev One Linux Laptop Review: The Best for Linux | Tux Machines
14:11 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights
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14:27 Ariadne; 5:45 AM he and ariadne are frenemies? enemies?
14:27 Ariadne; neither
14:35 *techuser (~techuser@mmg5z3yijp9ug.irc) has joined #techrights
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14:44 MinceR; 25 130142 < schestowitz[TR2]> if orban entered
14:44 MinceR; he would be amusing
14:45 MinceR; considering that he believes he speaks english, but doesn't
14:45 MinceR; "no majgrenc mor in"
14:51 MinceR; https://ircz.de/p/22070813
=> ↺ https://ircz.de/p/22070813
14:51 TR Bot; IRCZ makes your life worth living https://i.redd.it/8ldxue0a8d991.jpg created on 2022-07-08 03:26:28.683630
=> ↺ https://i.redd.it/8ldxue0a8d991.jpg
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14:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
14:59 MinceR; Soros' money was wasted on orban's education
15:08 *DaemonFC (~chatzilla@gque3bc9xqygc.irc) has joined #techrights
15:21 TR News; Mozilla Firefox 103 Is Now Available for Download, This Is Whats New Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167645
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167645
15:21 TR Bot; Mozilla Firefox 103 Is Now Available for Download, This Is Whats New | Tux Machines
15:28 psydroid2; https://www.cable.co.uk/energy/worldwide-pricing/
=> ↺ https://www.cable.co.uk/energy/worldwide-pricing/
15:28 TR Bot; Worldwide Electricity Pricing | Energy Cost Per KWh in 230 Countries
15:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
15:37 TR News; Inside the Minds of Microsofts Media Operatives Part III Attacking Real Security, Promoting Lies and Fake Security | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/
15:37 TR Bot; Inside the Minds of Microsofts Media Operatives Part III Attacking Real Security, Promoting Lies and Fake Security | Techrights
15:40 TR News; [MEME] Sneak Preview: EPO Chain Gang Movie | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/
15:40 TR Bot; [MEME] Sneak Preview: EPO Chain Gang Movie | Techrights
15:44 XRevan86; https://theins.press/en/news/253484 https://theins.press/en/news/253493
=> ↺ https://theins.press/en/news/253484
=> ↺ https://theins.press/en/news/253493
15:44 TR Bot; If you don't go to war, theyll put you in a pit: A secret prison for Russian soldiers who refuse to go to war
15:44 TR Bot; If we blaze the trail, others will follow: The parents of Russian balkers enter the LPR to rescue their children from detention
15:44 XRevan86; https://theins.press/en/news/253499
=> ↺ https://theins.press/en/news/253499
15:44 TR Bot; Philosophy professor fined for a sad emoji under an anti-war post
15:45 schestowitz[TR2]; :(
15:45 XRevan86; https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/07/25/fsb-accuses-journalist-grozev-of-plotting-to-steal-russian-aircraft-by-order-of-ukraine-news "FSB accuses journalist Grozev of plotting to steal Russian aircraft by order of Ukraine"
15:45 TR Bot; .
15:46 XRevan86; https://nitter.net/christogrozev/status/1551535542180929536
=> ↺ https://nitter.net/christogrozev/status/1551535542180929536
15:46 TR News; "Hello Smol world :-) Trying out this new platform!" gemini://jb.smol.pub/hello-world
=> ↺ gemini://jb.smol.pub/hello-world
15:47 TR Bot; Christo Grozev (@christogrozev): "Today FSB announced that they have foiled a plot by Ukraines intelligence services to lure Russian military pilots to surrender to Ukraine with their planes in return for millions of USD in payments (thread)."|nitter
15:47 XRevan86; https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1551535542180929536.html this link is more appropriate
=> ↺ https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1551535542180929536.html
15:47 TR Bot; Thread by @christogrozev on Thread Reader App Thread Reader App
15:47 TR News; SpellBinding: ABLOPTY Wordo: NASAL gemini://tilde.cafe/~spellbinding/gemlog/2022-07-25.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://tilde.cafe/~spellbinding/gemlog/2022-07-25.gmi
15:49 TR News; "I have a little clock app that I use on my Raspberry Pi 0. It is written in Go. The Pi0 is a slow machine, so compiling Go code is actually pretty painful, despite the language having a reputation for fast compile times." gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/2022-07-25-pl.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/2022-07-25-pl.gmi
15:49 TR News; FreeBSD Firewall gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/freebsd-firewall.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/freebsd-firewall.gmi
15:50 TR News; figlet test gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/figlet.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/figlet.gmi
15:50 XRevan86; https://nitter.net/JuliaDavisNews/status/1551415164821540864
=> ↺ https://nitter.net/JuliaDavisNews/status/1551415164821540864
15:50 TR Bot; Julia Davis (@JuliaDavisNews): "Meanwhile on Russian state TV: nationalist writer Alexander Prokhanov, who has been promoting Russia's war against Ukraine, is now being presented as a great artist. His strange, infantile "art" seems to be deliberately designed to promote the invasion of Ukraine to children."|nitter
15:51 XRevan86; https://en.zona.media/article/2022/06/12/natg
=> ↺ https://en.zona.media/article/2022/06/12/natg
15:51 TR Bot; We drove aimlessly through fields for days. After the invasion began, hundreds of Russian National Guard servicemen refused to fight in Ukraine and returned home
15:54 XRevan86; CIT (War in Ukraine): https://telegra.ph/Dispatch-for-July-25-07-23 , forgot about it earlier.
=> ↺ https://telegra.ph/Dispatch-for-July-25-07-23
15:54 TR Bot; Dispatch for July 22 Telegraph
15:54 schestowitz[TR2]; not an emojhlow morale
15:54 schestowitz[TR2]; for russian troops
15:54 schestowitz[TR2]; no goal
15:54 schestowitz[TR2]; not an emoji
15:54 schestowitz[TR2]; :(
15:54 schestowitz[TR2]; so no fines
15:55 schestowitz[TR2]; *low morale
15:55 XRevan86; schestowitz: No illegal asterisks either.
15:56 TR News; Today in #Techrights Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167646
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167646
15:56 TR Bot; Today in Techrights | Tux Machines
15:56 DaemonFC; The car is in the shop, and of course nobody at Mandy's dentist is answering the phone so I can discuss the bills the insurance company kicked back at me for "improper billing code".
15:56 DaemonFC; GRRRRR
15:57 DaemonFC; You have to be a plumber and an electrician to work on a car.
15:57 DaemonFC; If it's not a sensor, it's a vacuum leak.
15:58 DaemonFC; I was watching F is for Family with Mandy and "Frank" bitches about his car all the time because it's rusted and backfiring and the door hits him sometimes.
15:58 DaemonFC; Minor problems. At least cars in the 1970s ran and ran even long after they stopped looking pretty.
15:58 DaemonFC; You still see some now.
15:58 DaemonFC; It's worth buying maybe if you live in an emissions state, like I do.
15:58 DaemonFC; They're exempt!
15:59 DaemonFC; They never had pollution control on them anyway, except maybe a catalytic converter and a PCV valve.
15:59 DaemonFC; You buy a car today, it has like 25 things on the list that all have to be working, or no pass.
15:59 XRevan86; schestowitz: Russian beef with Wikipedia is over them giving information not approved by the Russian War Ministry.
16:00 DaemonFC; Meanwhile, the crooked Democrats let Stericycle, Medline, and the Waukegan Generating Plant gas us and spew out mercury and other air toxics.
16:00 DaemonFC; While they're worried about my gas tank burping out a little bit of fumes.
16:01 DaemonFC; It's impossible to get the fucking thing to seal right, no matter what gas cap you use. Just the OEM ones tend to piss off the computer less often.
16:02 DaemonFC; It looks like I'm going to have to take the car in to be emissions tested in January, and maybe fill 'er up and circle the block a bunch of times to put the system into "ready" mode and then fill it up again so the tank holds vacuum, and then get it tested.
16:02 DaemonFC; That'll pass, but it does wonders for the air, you know, making me drive it 50 more miles so it won't remember the gas tank has a vapor leak somewhere.
16:03 DaemonFC; The "check gas cap" light only tends to come on when it's really muggy out and you're down at least a quarter of a tank.
16:04 DaemonFC; So I can probably just keep topping her off on emissions test week and then run her down there and get it to pass and then have the light come back on after I get my sticker.
16:04 DaemonFC; "So help me you piece of shit, if you rat me out to these people you're going to the crushers! Do you hear me!?!?"
16:04 DaemonFC; :)
16:07 DaemonFC; The "Green New Deal" people like Eric Sandeen of Red Hat can just "help the environment along" by getting an EV that fails every 60,000 miles or 5 years, and makes them turn part of the Earth into another car.
16:07 *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights
16:25 *schestowitz[TR2] back
16:25 schestowitz[TR2]; britney: you got a compliment earlier
16:25 techuser; wb
16:25 schestowitz[TR2]; XRevan86: but Wikipedia is biaed
16:25 schestowitz[TR2]; let's not let Russian liars distract from it
16:26 britney; schestowitz[TR2], i did?
16:26 XRevan86; > matey: its probably my imagination, but britney seems like the nicest person ive met in here
16:27 schestowitz[TR2]; the dit wars are always won by ther owners
16:27 schestowitz[TR2]; so on politics and corporations wikiepdia became a sham
16:27 britney; thank you matey
16:28 XRevan86; schestowitz: I take biased over blatant lies any day.
16:30 XRevan86; I bring this up because of "russia bans wikipedia; it felt unfairly treated; which is likely partly true".
16:31 XRevan86; It doesn't take much to make Russia feel unfairly treated, just share videos from Bucha in March.
16:32 XRevan86; It's a "What happened on the Tiananmen Square in 1989" kind of thing. Is the CPC unfairly treated?
16:33 *Despatche (~desp@u3xy9z2ifjzci.irc) has joined #techrights
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16:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
17:15 AdmFubar; and you thought sharks with lasers was a bad idea! https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/new-apple-patent-suggests-iphones-could-get-feature-lasers-adding-more-biometric-capabilities-10943201.html
17:15 TR Bot; Apple patent suggests iPhones could get feature lasers adding more biometric capabilities- Technology News, Firstpost
17:17 TR News; Doxxing: a new tool of repression against Arab women https://news.trust.org/item/20220722143520-lxcou/
=> ↺ https://news.trust.org/item/20220722143520-lxcou/
17:17 TR Bot; Doxxing: a new tool of repression against Arab women
17:18 TR News; Speed Up Linux - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8XueTkMTNvc | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/8XueTkMTNvc
=> ↺ https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8XueTkMTNvc
=> ↺ gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/8XueTkMTNvc
17:18 TR Bot; Speed Up Linux - Invidious
17:24 TR News; Thunderbird Time Machine: A Look Back At Thunderbird 0.1 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167647
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167647
17:24 TR Bot; Thunderbird Time Machine: A Look Back At Thunderbird 0.1 | Tux Machines
17:30 TR News; Audiocasts/Shows/Videos: Speeding Up GNU/Linux, Aserto, WordPress, Steam Deck Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167648
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167648
17:30 TR Bot; Audiocasts/Shows/Videos: Speeding Up GNU/Linux, Aserto, WordPress, Steam Deck | Tux Machines
17:35 *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114])
17:37 *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@gque3bc9xqygc.irc) has joined #techrights
17:39 DaemonFC; https://debugpointnews.com/gnome-web-43-extension/
=> ↺ https://debugpointnews.com/gnome-web-43-extension/
17:39 TR Bot; reply from server ( status 0 @ https://debugpointnews.com/gnome-web-43-extension/ )
=> ↺ https://debugpointnews.com/gnome-web-43-extension/
17:42 phanes; DaemonFC, so when you gettin a new car? that buick sounds like it's had it
17:42 DaemonFC; I just bought it a few months ago.
17:42 DaemonFC; Meh, emissions problems are not unusual.
17:42 DaemonFC; The computers are super sensitive about that stuff these days.
17:43 DaemonFC; The government forces the check engine light to come on over things cars wouldn't have even bothered you about 20 years ago.
17:43 DaemonFC; Most of the time the engine light comes on, unless it's flashing, it means emissions.
17:43 DaemonFC; The engine usually runs fine.
17:44 phanes; i never get that on the v8 challenger
17:44 DaemonFC; The system occasionally polls the fuel system to see if there's an absolutely perfect vacuum.
17:44 phanes; trade 'er in get one you'll never want a buick again
17:44 DaemonFC; And anything from the gas cap on down can cause the light to come on.
17:45 phanes; ive never had to have my challenger services outside of breaks and fluids in almost 5 years
17:45 DaemonFC; Well, after 15 years, not everything seals perfectly and you start getting vacuum line leaks or something.
17:45 phanes; *serviced
17:45 DaemonFC; It's not unusual.
17:46 DaemonFC; Most of them aren't terribly expensive to fix, it's just annoying that you have to be down at the shop again.
17:46 DaemonFC; Finding them turns out to be most of the time spent.
17:47 DaemonFC; They're so small that the computer will detect the leak before you start smelling gas fumes, usually.
17:52 DaemonFC; schestowitz, GNOME Web added HEVC support apparently.
17:52 DaemonFC; In HTML 5.
17:53 DaemonFC; Guessing Safari probably did it and they had sites sending it.
17:57 britney; DaemonFC, not apparently, HEVC support is definitely there
17:59 phanes; how come those dont just get treated like any other codec? like why is it part of the ui instead of a library package?
18:00 DaemonFC; GStreamer is plug-in based.
18:00 TR News; EPO Monday: A Carnival of Law-Breaking Fluff, Even Celebration of Crime | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/
18:00 TR Bot; EPO Monday: A Carnival of Law-Breaking Fluff, Even Celebration of Crime | Techrights
18:00 DaemonFC; WebkitGTK can use or not use each codec.
18:01 DaemonFC; So the only thing preventing HEVC support was a block at the engine level.
18:01 schestowitz[TR2]; hevc is patent trap
18:01 schestowitz[TR2]; but ibm loves spwats
18:01 schestowitz[TR2]; ibm controls gnome
18:01 AdmFubar; https://tech.slashdot.org/story/22/07/25/1428217/porsches-postponed-by-buggy-software-cost-vws-ceo-his-job?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
18:01 TR Bot; Porsches Postponed by Buggy Software Cost VW's CEO His Job - Slashdot
18:02 TR News; TopHat is a Nifty System Monitor for GNOME Shell Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167649
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167649
18:02 TR Bot; TopHat is a Nifty System Monitor for GNOME Shell | Tux Machines
18:02 TR News; Security Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167650
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167650
18:02 TR Bot; Security Leftovers | Tux Machines
18:03 britney; schestowitz[TR2], most gnome contributors are non corporate personal accounts
18:05 psydroid2; for people who are employed by corporations but are pretending to be part of the independent "community"?
18:10 Ariadne; pocock's new domain: suicide.fyi
18:10 Ariadne; how edgy
18:14 DaemonFC; Anything with "debian" in the name can be stolen by WIPO.
18:15 DaemonFC; They could always GULAG him and threaten to sue him into the ground I guess.
18:17 DaemonFC; They didn't like his postings, like the ones where he points out that Microsoft is funding Debian now.
18:17 *Ariadne shrug
18:17 Ariadne; when i had disagreement about the future direction of alpine, i joined together with others and made alpine
18:18 DaemonFC; It sounds like you'd be likely to run into incompatibility issues with Alpine.
18:18 Ariadne; er, debian
18:19 DaemonFC; Even 15 years ago, Torvalds defended the size of glibc.
18:19 Ariadne; my point is before alpine, there was debian. there were disagreements, so we made alpine :)
18:20 DaemonFC; No, 20 years ago even.
18:20 DaemonFC; https://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2002-01/msg00079.html
=> ↺ https://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2002-01/msg00079.html
18:20 TR Bot; Linus Torvalds - Re: [libc-alpha] Re: [open-source] Re: Wish for 2002
18:20 Ariadne; pocock is wasting his time on whatever this is, when he should apply his engineering talent to creating something better
18:21 schestowitz[TR2]; we're about to take the beta of tuxmachines live on alpine
18:22 schestowitz[TR2]; regarding debian.community, it was a "new" site
18:22 schestowitz[TR2]; when he writes in his own site it's better syled
18:22 schestowitz[TR2]; but over time the tone got worse and worse
18:22 schestowitz[TR2]; even in 2020 I was unable to copy articles because of taste issue
18:23 schestowitz[TR2]; but the attacks on his worsen it
18:23 schestowitz[TR2]; and they don't seem to get it
18:23 schestowitz[TR2]; prenning is now with arch
18:23 schestowitz[TR2]; vut still maintains a few things in debian
18:23 schestowitz[TR2]; like kde
18:23 schestowitz[TR2]; not texlive
18:24 Ariadne; fwiw i agree that debian as a project is a dumpster fire
18:24 Ariadne; again, i solved that by leaving :)
18:24 schestowitz[TR2]; china bases on debian
18:24 Ariadne; still have many friends there though, and not really impressed with pocock's harassment of them
18:24 schestowitz[TR2]; can you imagine chinese dd and DPL?
18:24 schestowitz[TR2]; cannot criticise "party leader"
18:25 DaemonFC; Debian moves things around too much.
18:25 DaemonFC; They ship with bizarre misconfigurations and announce forks that go dead and pile up security hazards quickly.
18:25 DaemonFC; Like that libav crap.
18:25 Ariadne; libav was mostly gentoo's fault
18:26 DaemonFC; "Oh, we'll fork ffmpeg and clean everything up." then it just sits there, and sits there.
18:26 Ariadne; another dumpster fire, admittedly
18:26 DaemonFC; The only thing they changed were the binary names, and then it rots and rots.
18:26 Ariadne; hmm, that's not really what happened
18:26 DaemonFC; ffmpeg keeps adding codecs, libav rots some more and has another month with no security patches.
18:26 Ariadne; ffmpeg merged frequently from libav and merged things that libav refused to merge
18:27 Ariadne; this is a "fork control" tactic, and one which was effective in ffmpeg's case
18:28 Ariadne; what doomed libav in the end was that all the people who wanted to go sue people for major damages for GPL violations fell on that side of the fork
18:28 DaemonFC; Stallman did something similar with FSF emacs.
18:28 Ariadne; while ffmpeg reinvented its own image
18:28 DaemonFC; They didn't want to accept code that wasn't assigned to them by Lucid.
18:28 Ariadne; yes, Stallman beat XEmacs by staying infront of it
18:28 DaemonFC; So they just implemented all of the same features eventually, in new code.
18:29 Ariadne; so basically libav became associated with litigation, while ffmpeg lost that association and gained corporate support
18:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
18:30 Ariadne; an example of how sue-happy libav was: they sued ffmpeg for "infringing" "their" logo
18:30 *oarion7 (~anonymous@user/oarion7) has joined #techrights
18:31 Ariadne; all michael had to do as ffmpeg maintainer was seed the thought -- they'll sue another FOSS project, they'll probably sue you too
18:31 Ariadne; and that killed libav dead
18:32 DaemonFC; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libav#Confusion
=> ↺ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libav#Confusion
18:32 TR Bot; Libav - Wikipedia
18:32 DaemonFC; libav did a lot of nasty propaganda and made it hard for the user to have both installed on their system, deliberately.
18:32 Ariadne; yes
18:33 DaemonFC; I recall being very confused when I typed ffmpeg on an Ubuntu system and was told that ffmpeg was deprecated.
18:33 DaemonFC; Then I found out what was actually going on and was pretty pissed.
18:34 Ariadne; ah yeah, avconv or whatever
18:34 DaemonFC; Shit changes all the time in Debian and Ubuntu, for no good reason.
18:34 DaemonFC; And then the user has to sort out the mess.
18:34 Ariadne; alpine stuck with ffmpeg
18:35 TR News; UK Covid-19:Percent tested positive twice as bad as July 2021 and about 10 times worse than in July 2020! https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/25/not-enough-tests/
=> ↺ https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/25/not-enough-tests/
18:35 TR Bot; Blog Archive UK Not Testing Enough for COVID-19 (More Than 1 in 10 Now Test Positive, But Testing Rates at New Lows)
18:35 TR News; As seen in our latest EPO series, the EPO cannot distinguish/differentiate a patent office from a bank http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/
18:35 TR Bot; [Meme] The EPOs Great Leap Forward | Techrights
18:35 DaemonFC; Mostly, forks are jsut bad all around.
18:35 DaemonFC; They hurt everybody.
18:35 TR News; As EPO presidents, Benot Battistelli and Antnio Campinos have figured out a way to print more monopolies http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/
18:35 TR Bot; [Meme] The EPOs Unprecedented Surge | Techrights
18:36 DaemonFC; They leave users stuck not knowing what to do with the trouble they cause.
18:37 TR News; Rakudo Weekly News: 2022.30 What https://rakudoweekly.blog/2022/07/25/2022-30-what/
=> ↺ https://rakudoweekly.blog/2022/07/25/2022-30-what/
18:37 TR Bot; 2022.30 What Rakudo Weekly News
18:39 TR News; DIY Macro-keyboard gemini://tilde.club/~filip/text/gemlog/20220725_diy_macro-keyboard.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://tilde.club/~filip/text/gemlog/20220725_diy_macro-keyboard.gmi
18:40 TR News; "This is just a short pointer on how to use IPFS to access the care list, for anyone who doesn't know and/or isn't interested in learning more about it right now. To learn more you should go to the official website or search around." gemini://siiky.srht.site/care/ipfs.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://siiky.srht.site/care/ipfs.gmi
18:40 TR News; "I wrote a CHICKEN Scheme egg to control a Kubo node through its RPC API." gemini://siiky.srht.site/code/ipfs.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://siiky.srht.site/code/ipfs.gmi
18:42 matey; again, i solved that by leaving :) <- if debian is so terrible that people are dying as a result, you didnt solve that, you avoided it-- which is an acceptable move obviously
18:42 TR News; "It has to be a real programming language, not a modelling one!" gemini://siiky.srht.site/petri_nets/log003.gmi
=> ↺ gemini://siiky.srht.site/petri_nets/log003.gmi
18:42 matey; given the over-the-top nature of his writing, im certainly keeping watch for material that can debunk it
18:42 Ariadne; matey: if debian is dying because of a self-inflicted wound, then the free market is working as intended
18:43 schestowitz[TR2]; it's still a shame
18:43 schestowitz[TR2]; and a waste of effort
18:43 matey; i meant people literally dying
18:43 Ariadne; the background is that pocock was caught supervising his girlfriend during Debian GSoC 2017
18:43 schestowitz[TR2]; ian died in 2016 iirc
18:43 matey; the free market may not give a shit about that
18:43 Ariadne; his membership in debian was suspended as a result of that
18:43 schestowitz[TR2]; Ariadne: he denies this
18:43 Ariadne; he can deny whatever he wants
18:44 schestowitz[TR2]; i think it might be fabricated as a projection tactic
18:44 matey; personally i consider debian to be slave software, not free software
18:44 matey; but the level of (real) exploitation is certainly (and should be) up for debate
18:44 Ariadne; i can say that alpine was designed to avoid many of the problems debian has
18:45 Ariadne; (in terms of governance)
18:45 Ariadne; pocock is smart, he could make his own distribution if he wanted
18:45 matey; he wants to fight what he considers injustice
18:45 Ariadne; this stuff is just masturbation
18:46 matey; this stuff is just masturbation <- he IS making people aware of issues. for me the question is whether his claims are wrong
18:46 matey; it certainly wont fix debian either. debian is going to remain like this
18:46 matey; theres no reforming it
18:47 Ariadne; there is likely some truth to what he says, but there is a lot that he is intentionally misinterpreting in bad faith too
18:47 matey; he also seems really pisspoor at certain transparency
18:47 matey; he talks about volunteers working
18:47 matey; imo he probably means himself, though there could be others
18:47 matey; on his website
18:48 Ariadne; his website advocates swatting people
18:48 matey; i criticised him heavily for that
18:48 matey; and as far as i know, that was just one person
18:48 matey; which doesnt change the fact, but i wouldnt use the word people unless it was people
18:49 Ariadne; encouraging the sending of police to somebody's home is basically the same as attacking them yourself
18:49 matey; i suppose you can argue that as a blanket statement "singular 'people'" without technically being incorrect gramatically speaking
18:49 TR News; Kubernetes Troubleshooting: Finding the Right Monitoring Solution - Container Journal https://containerjournal.com/features/kubernetes-troubleshooting-finding-the-right-monitoring-solution/ Source: containerjournal
18:49 TR Bot; Kubernetes Troubleshooting: Finding the Right Monitoring Solution - Container Journal
18:50 matey; obviously he draws a boatload of criticism
18:50 Ariadne; i think it is difficult to find any FOSS project that is approaching 30 years old that does not have skeletons in its closet
18:50 matey; and the criticism is often as difficult to sift through factwise as his own work
18:51 Ariadne; GNU has skeletons, Debian has skeletons, etc
18:51 TR News; Feren OS Review: Clever KDE Distro for Easy Migration from Windows Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167651
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167651
18:51 TR Bot; Feren OS Review: Clever KDE Distro for Easy Migration from Windows | Tux Machines
18:51 Ariadne; even Alpine has skeletons
18:51 matey; i dont think gnu has anything remotely like debian in this regard
18:51 matey; hopefully alpine hasnt killed anyone yet. i certainly wouldnt assume it has
18:52 schestowitz[TR2]; debian has literal skeletons
18:52 Ariadne; i am willing to believe debian is not responsible for anyone's suicide until i see an actual suicide note saying as such
18:52 schestowitz[TR2]; same for epo
18:52 matey; nice
18:52 schestowitz[TR2]; many suicides there
18:52 matey; until i see an actual suicide note saying as such <- that seems like a double standard
18:52 Ariadne; how is that a double standard
18:52 matey; we know why near killed themselves. but if it wasnt (and may not be) in the suicide note
18:52 Ariadne; pocock asserts that Debian is responsible for Frans Pop's suicide
18:52 matey; would it need to be for us to know how it happened?
18:53 Ariadne; near posted their suicide note on their twitter
18:53 matey; what im saying is
18:53 Ariadne; and explicitly identified kiwifarms as the cause
18:53 matey; yes
18:53 matey; but if the note did not state that
18:53 matey; it would still be clear enough what happened
18:53 matey; no?
18:54 Ariadne; my point is that i have yet to see any evidence other than hearsay from pocock to support the claim
18:54 matey; i certainly dont want to dwell on this point, if theres any dispute im happy to drop it-- likewise if you agree with the point
18:54 matey; my point is that i have yet to see any evidence other than hearsay from pocock to support the claim <- thats a fair point when put that way
18:54 Ariadne; i think that if we are to say debian is responsible for a suicide there should be stronger evidence than that
18:54 matey; i dont assume all of pococks points are fair-- its hard to imagine
18:55 matey; there should be stronger evidence than that <- thats the problem with how he words things
18:55 matey; hes too quick to draw the conclusion
18:55 matey; he should present the evidence and state his feelings
18:55 matey; but not pretend that OH THIS PROVES IT DOESNT IT
18:55 matey; its not proof
18:55 Ariadne; that's what i am saying
18:55 matey; we agree on that at least to some degree
18:56 matey; it decreases the value of his crusade at least partially
18:56 matey; you can get interesting details from his work but now theres all this work to see what hes exaggerating, what hes right about, etc
18:56 DaemonFC; Not just suicides.
18:56 DaemonFC; The Debian cabal is causing heart attacks and car accidents too.
18:56 matey; it would be nice if he was a little more helpful in this regard. he COULD be, most likely
18:56 matey; but hes not
18:57 matey; its a drawback
18:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
18:59 DaemonFC; https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/07/25/huntley-lake-in-the-hills-men-allegedly-stabbed-raccoon-with-sword-and-rake-struck-it-in-head-with-hammer/
18:59 TR Bot; Huntley, Lake in the Hills men allegedly stabbed raccoon with sword and rake, struck it in head with hammer
19:00 TR News; EPO actively glorifies illegal actions and celebrates the perpetrators actions while based on the staff survey this site does not even remotely represent the views of EPO staff, only those who captured the organisation to oppress the staff http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/
19:00 TR Bot; EPO Monday: A Carnival of Law-Breaking Fluff, Even Celebration of Crime | Techrights
19:00 matey; there were two things i disliked about his treatment of the person he suggested swatting
19:00 matey; one, is obviously that thing itself
19:00 TR News; The sad or sadist future of EPO patent granting, in particular European software patents under Antnio Campinos http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/
19:00 TR Bot; [Meme] Sneak Preview: EPO Chain Gang Movie | Techrights
19:00 matey; i dont think that can simply be excused, and i found it revoltingly hypocritical. just about the worst point in his campaign
19:00 TR News; Nontechnical talking points from Microsoft suits and paid analysts are promoted by veiled media operatives which saturate the pool of news and end up reducing the signal-to-noise ratio, in effect spreading disinformation (fake news) on behalf of Microsoft so as to hide from very simple (albeit uncomfortable) facts; http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/
=> http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/
19:00 TR Bot; Inside the Minds of Microsofts Media Operatives Part III Attacking Real Security, Promoting Lies and Fake Security | Techrights
19:00 matey; id struggle to think of worse
19:01 matey; but the other point i didnt like was the way he exploited any mental health issues, which i think he did
19:01 matey; if he can draw a line to the relevance, maybe thats one thing
19:01 matey; i dont think he succeded in doing so, and this goes beyond poor taste
19:01 matey; its just bad
19:02 matey; mention it if its truly relevant. otherwise wtf
19:02 matey; these are the lowest points in his work imo
19:02 matey; to say the least it wasnt directed at someone i admire or respect or could ever begin to trust
19:02 matey; doesnt really matter though
19:03 XRevan86; DaemonFC: Is your opinion on Debian providing MariaDB over Oracle MariaDB the same?
19:03 matey; i wish he had a little more finesse about it
19:04 DaemonFC; Eh, if it's a piece of crap like libav was...
19:04 matey; but i dont think that will change. maybe he learned from that, maybe he didnt-- if he didnt he likely never will
19:04 XRevan86; > Mostly, forks are just bad all around; They hurt everybody.
19:04 Ariadne; XRevan86: in fairness, Debian did not put its weight behind MariaDB as an endorsement, like they did with gentoo on libav
19:04 XRevan86; Ariadne: Didn't they?
19:04 matey; theyre really good for pasta (personally i prefer chopsticks)
19:04 Ariadne; and, most distributions followed the MariaDB fork :)
19:05 Ariadne; XRevan86: not really. switching to MariaDB was much more lowkey :)
19:05 matey; forced unity between people who will always be at odds can be worse than a fork
19:05 XRevan86; Except Ubuntu, which causes a lot of pain.
19:05 matey; a fork is a divorce. staying married can hurt people too
19:05 Ariadne; absolutely
19:05 phanes; Ariadne, how did this issue with pocock/debian start? like what was the trigger? I think everybody knows what he's doing now sucks, but I haven't heard from anyone what his beef actually is
19:05 DaemonFC; https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/07/23/hate-crime-charges-filed-against-man-who-allegedly-vandalized-lake-in-the-hills-cafe-on-day-of-drag-show/
19:05 TR Bot; Hate crime charges filed against man who allegedly vandalized Lake in the Hills cafe on day of drag show
19:06 XRevan86; I wonder what made Ubuntu diverge from Debian regarding MariaDB.
19:06 Ariadne; phanes: his membership in debian was suspended for 6 months over an incident involving GSoC 2017
19:06 matey; (sometimes a fork is more of a mistress, but we wont go there)
19:06 phanes; ive heard from some folks that he took up for appelbaum and was pushed out for it
19:06 XRevan86; Do they have some special sympathy for Oracle?
19:06 matey; why isnt there a male word for (the male equivalent) of mistress
19:06 DaemonFC; Do they have some special sympathy for Oracle?
19:06 Ariadne; phanes: it is alleged that pocock was supervising his girlfriend in GSoC 2017, and it put the entire Debian participation in GSoC 2017 at risk
19:06 matey; as in "man outside of marriage who was slept with"
19:06 DaemonFC; They're a thrall of Microsoft.
19:06 DaemonFC; Why would they not ship Oracle software?
19:07 phanes; Ariadne, nepotism concerns?
19:07 XRevan86; matey: Didn't we discuss "favourites"? :)
19:07 Ariadne; phanes: right
19:07 matey; we did, but ive still never heard that used in any context im aware of, ever
19:07 matey; the usage may exist, i think its relevant that in decades ive never seen it in the wild
19:08 Ariadne; anyway, since his membership was suspended, he decided to go after everyone else who was doing the same thing he was allegedly suspended for
19:08 matey; also favourite isnt gendered. which is fine, only it doesnt completely satisfy what i was asking about either
19:08 XRevan86; "Lover" is gender-neutral.
19:08 Ariadne; that led to his expulsion from the project
19:08 matey; "lover" doesnt always imply infidelity, while mistress does
19:08 matey; lover is neutral in that regard
19:08 Ariadne; from there it has just gotten more and more ridiculous
19:08 phanes; Ariadne, how is that distinguishable from chris lamb w/ de blanc?
19:09 XRevan86; matey: "Favourite" is heavy male-leaning.
19:09 Ariadne; well, i do not think either of them were participating in GSoC 2017
19:09 matey; among zero uses ive actually seen in the english speaking world
19:09 phanes; ok i just need to read it sounds like
19:09 matey; which includes your domicile, imo
19:09 matey; its part of the english speaking world obviously
19:09 Ariadne; but generally, i don't think it is appropriate for members of an executive body to be in personal relationships either
19:10 Ariadne; in other words, one incident existing does not forgive the existence of another incident
19:10 matey; it certainly causes problems for the organisation
19:11 matey; im not sure i sympathise with the organisation. as an ideal rule of thumb, we can be reasonable and at least hope high ranking people avoid this
19:11 matey; i mean reasonable as opposed to "anything goes"
19:12 phanes; depends on how the org handles it
19:12 phanes; people fall in love
19:12 phanes; the solution is "one of you has to move to a different part of the org"
19:12 matey; people who are in a relationship, whether or not there are rules around it
19:13 phanes; i dont think expelling people is right unless they refuse to relocate
19:13 matey; should obviously make efforts to act with an absolute minimum of favouritism and-- i realise there will be biases
19:13 matey; only they should try to mitigate them at least
19:13 matey; rather than ride them home
19:13 Ariadne; phanes: i think it is important to recognize that pocock was expelled because of his behavior after the incident, not because of the incident itself
19:14 phanes; what was that behaviour?
19:14 Ariadne; he started doing what he is doing now
19:15 Ariadne; forwarding private mails to public lists, doxing people, etc
19:15 phanes; its unfathomable to me that someone with that pedigree, standing, and skill level would slip off the rails just because he got called out on a conflict of interest with his partner
19:16 Ariadne; it is further alleged that his father passed away during all of this, and he was also dismissed from FSFE as a result of his debian suspension
19:16 phanes; ok, that sounds closer to home
19:16 phanes; just multiple crises all going on at once
19:16 matey; the thing about his father passing seems to be what bothers him the most
19:17 phanes; yeah it fucks you up
19:17 phanes; im still recovering from when my dad died
19:17 phanes; it changes everything
19:17 matey; he felt pressured and abused by debian regarding
19:17 matey; basically the theme comes up over and over
19:17 matey; he was trying to grieve and-- in his eyes, they were basically like
19:17 matey; pocock, if you cant get back to work we have to demote you
19:17 matey; then they did
19:17 Ariadne; either way, i don't think his current strategy is productive for improving software freedom or debian
19:18 matey; and he took it REALLY personally
19:18 matey; like start a crusade personally
19:18 matey; some of what ariadne is saying MAY (even factually) contradict this narrative
19:18 matey; it seems pocock sincerely believes it though. or hes exploiting his own grief-- im not cynical enough to assume so.
19:18 Ariadne; no, that fits with my understanding -- that FSFE terminated him due to performance
19:18 phanes; ive asked him directly before what's going on because he's showing signs of trauma response and he just kind of spins around in words
19:19 matey; he's showing signs of trauma response and he just kind of spins around in words <- this is pocock to a tee
19:19 matey; ive been trying to figure him out for years
19:19 matey; for one because some of what he writes is so damning (of actually fucked up orgs)
19:19 matey; his work is useful
19:19 phanes; oh he's a valid threat
19:19 Ariadne; there is some truth to what he says
19:19 matey; for me, he was one of the first to shed light on... NO, this is NOT just fsfe
19:20 matey; this is fsf too
19:20 matey; there is some truth to what he says <- whats so damned frustrating is how hard it is to sort the wheat from the... pink slime
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19:20 Ariadne; i just don't get why he wants to focus on this, when he could use his engineering skills to build new structures
19:21 matey; id say he needs an editor... thats probably a somewhat naive solution (but is it really naive if you already realise it)
19:21 matey; i just don't get why he wants to focus on this <- i think phanes has already intuited why
19:21 phanes; grief and brilliance are a bad and powerful combination
19:22 matey; you hit the nail on the head with "trauma"-- grief can cause that, but i think fewer people will understand when its put in that term
19:22 Ariadne; oh yes, there is definitely a trauma response happening with his work :p
19:22 matey; i think this goes beyond grief, and the grief was a trigger.
19:22 matey; but it can also be part of the cause
19:22 Ariadne; but, i don't think most people care about who was sharing hotel rooms at debconf 6 years ago
19:23 phanes; yeah i initially thought he had been targeted and was kind of thrashing in response but im not getting any indicator that this is the case and ive looked pretty hard
19:23 matey; i don't think most people care about who was sharing hotel rooms at debconf 6 years ago <- not unless it was (as pocock paints it)
19:23 phanes; there was conflict w/ MDB at one point
19:23 matey; an unholy alliance complete with blood sacrifice etc etc etc
19:23 matey; two people in love, stomping through the fallen masses of their regime...
19:24 Ariadne; damn, debconf must have gotten far more interesting since the last one i attended
19:24 matey; laughing maniacally
19:24 matey; plotting further acts of destruction
19:24 matey; partly im having a go at how he puts things, and partly im also having a go at lamb
19:26 Ariadne; i mean i get that this is basically "oh, i got caught supervising my girlfriend during GSoC, but look, lamby is sleeping with his treasurer"
19:26 Ariadne; and i will say that isn't a great look
19:26 phanes; nerds conjugate at these conventions far more than i thought, I actively avoid any kind of romantic interaction at them to avoid both image problems that can come from it and also it a bad signal read can make people uncomfortable and create a scene
19:26 matey; the latter is difficult to ignore
19:26 phanes; like why mix work and play
19:27 matey; pocock paints this as helping debian, and hes free to do so
19:27 matey; i wouldnt be at all surprised if he believes it
19:27 Ariadne; he does
19:27 matey; if i had to guess, he wants debian to burn to the ground, and i would like to feel noble about it being razed
19:27 phanes; debian really could use a change of the guard tbh
19:27 matey; but its also possible he really thinks it can be saved, and i think thats naive (but in a way thats obviously very common)
19:28 Ariadne; anyway, i have a meeting in 3 minutes and i need to restart my wayland session because pipewire is being annoying
19:28 *matey has quit (connection closed)
19:29 phanes; if they put neil mcgovern's head on a spike in the front yard with no explanation that would probably go a long way to restoring debian imo
19:29 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights
19:29 phanes; "vladian justice"
19:30 XRevan86; Ariadne: Portal stuff?
19:35 phanes; schestowitz[TR2], was MDB made president of the OSI -after- the Stallman campaign?
19:38 phanes; no, neverind, doesn't line up
19:46 TR News; Rocky Linux 9 arrives with Peridot http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167237#comment-34428
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167237#comment-34428
19:46 TR Bot; Rocky Linux 9 Officially Released with GNOME 40 Desktop, Improved Security | Tux Machines
19:49 TR News; Firefox 103 Available to Download, But Promised Swipe Gesture is MIA Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167652
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167652
19:49 TR Bot; Firefox 103 Available to Download, But Promised Swipe Gesture is MIA | Tux Machines
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20:00 TR News; Upgrading what might be the worlds oldest running Linux install Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167653
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167653
20:00 TR Bot; Upgrading what might be the world's oldest running Linux install | Tux Machines
20:01 TR News; System76 Refreshes Their Popular Oryx Pro Laptop with a New CPU http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167498#comment-34429
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167498#comment-34429
20:01 TR Bot; System76's Oryx Pro Linux Laptop Gets a 12th Gen Intel CPU, NVIDIA RTX 3000 Ti GPUs | Tux Machines
20:05 schestowitz[TR2]; got the irc bot updated for the beta site
20:05 schestowitz[TR2]; still password-protected for now
20:13 XRevan86; > CIT (War in Ukraine): https://telegra.ph/Dispatch-for-July-23-24-07-25
=> ↺ https://telegra.ph/Dispatch-for-July-23-24-07-25
20:13 TR Bot; Dispatch for July 23-24 Telegraph
20:16 schestowitz[TR2]; http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Upgrading_what_might_be_the_world's_oldest_running_Linux_install.shtml
20:16 TR Bot; Upgrading what might be the world's oldest running Linux install
20:17 schestowitz[TR2]; hello world
20:30 britney; helloSystem
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20:52 britney; What is the difference between a police officer and a highwayman? The Police Services Act
20:53 britney; ACAB
20:53 TR News; Google #Android Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167654 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Android_Leftovers.shtml
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167654
=> ↺ https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Android_Leftovers.shtml
20:53 TR Bot; Android Leftovers | Tux Machines
20:53 TR Bot; ( status 401 @ https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Android_Leftovers.shtml )
=> ↺ https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Android_Leftovers.shtml
20:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0
21:04 TR News; Code review at the speed of email https://drewdevault.com/2022/07/25/Code-review-with-aerc.html Source: drewdevault | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//drewdevault.com/2022/07/25/Code-review-with-aerc.html
=> ↺ https://drewdevault.com/2022/07/25/Code-review-with-aerc.html
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21:04 TR Bot; Code review at the speed of email
21:05 TR News; Now you can make shawarma at your desk | Arduino Blog https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/now-you-can-make-shawarma-at-your-desk/ Source: Arduino | Hardware | OpenHardware | Hacking | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/now-you-can-make-shawarma-at-your-desk/
=> ↺ https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/now-you-can-make-shawarma-at-your-desk/
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21:05 TR Bot; Now you can make shawarma at your desk | Arduino Blog
21:06 TR News; Rakwireless introduces WisBlock modular power supply, IP65 enclosures, and more sensor modules - CNX Software https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/07/25/rakwireless-wisblock-modular-power-supply-ip65-enclosures-sensor-modules/ Source: Linux | GNU | Hardware | cnxsoftware
21:06 TR Bot; Rakwireless introduces WisBlock modular power supply, IP65 enclosures, and more sensor modules - CNX Software
21:09 TR News; GSoC update: Draw Ellipses in Krita https://blog.xuche.ml/post/gsoc-update-draw-ellipses-in-krita/
=> ↺ https://blog.xuche.ml/post/gsoc-update-draw-ellipses-in-krita/
21:09 TR Bot; GSoC update: Draw Ellipses in Krita :: Shidao's blog
21:09 TR News; "On Saturday 16 July 2022 KDE Eco held the second in-person Sprint to work on the community measurement lab at the KDAB office in Berlin. The Sprint is one of several planned follow-up events." https://eco.kde.org/blog/2022-07-25-sprint-lab-follow-up/
=> ↺ https://eco.kde.org/blog/2022-07-25-sprint-lab-follow-up/
21:09 TR Bot; Measurement Lab Follow-Up: Sprint Achievements And To-dos - KDE Eco
21:10 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167655 http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/today's_howtos.shtml #news
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167655
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21:10 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
21:10 TR Bot; ( status 404 @ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/today's_howtos.shtml )
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21:11 AdmFubar; it's a hack hack hacky place! https://hackaday.com/2022/07/25/mcterminals-give-the-hamburglar-a-chance/
=> ↺ https://hackaday.com/2022/07/25/mcterminals-give-the-hamburglar-a-chance/
21:11 TR Bot; Give The Hamburglar A Chance | Hackaday
21:16 TR News; Programming: KDE coding, Code review at the speed of email, and Rakudo Weekly News Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167656 http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Programming:_KDE_coding,_Code_review_at_the_speed_of_email,_and_Rakudo_Weekly_News.shtml #news
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167656
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21:16 TR Bot; Programming: KDE coding, Code review at the speed of email, and Rakudo Weekly News | Tux Machines
21:16 TR Bot; Programming: KDE coding, Code review at the speed of email, and Rakudo Weekly News
21:19 TR News; Using nmap to scan networks (Awesome Linux Tools) - Invidious
=>
21:19 TR Bot; Using nmap to scan networks (Awesome Linux Tools) - Invidious
21:19 TR News; Using nmap to scan networks (Awesome Linux Tools) - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=5tzp9QzwnUQ | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/5tzp9QzwnUQ
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21:20 TR News; Manjaro 21.3.0 Xfce Edition Quick overview #linux #Manjaro - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=GdpV5Nyfn7s | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/GdpV5Nyfn7s
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21:20 TR Bot; Manjaro 21.3.0 Xfce Edition Quick overview #linux #Manjaro - Invidious
21:21 Ariadne; XRevan86: no, i use bluetooth in-ear monitors, and everytime i turn them on, pipewire gets moody and needs to be restarted
21:22 Ariadne; pulseaudio did not have this problem ;/
21:25 MinceR; i see the CADT development model is working out as usual :>
21:28 TR News; "Unfortunately I would like to inform kde community that I am stepping away from Latte development. No time,motivation or interest from my part is the main reason. I hope that this will give free space and air for new developers/maintainers to step in and move Latte forward." https://psifidotos.blogspot.com/2022/07/latte-dock-farewell.html
=> ↺ https://psifidotos.blogspot.com/2022/07/latte-dock-farewell.html
21:28 TR Bot; psifidotos: Latte Dock | Farewell...
21:30 IPFS; () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi
=> gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi
21:35 TR News; Reviving a vintage secondary split-flap clock with Arduino | Arduino Blog https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/reviving-a-vintage-secondary-split-flap-clock-with-arduino/ Source: Arduino | Hardware | OpenHardware | Hacking
=> ↺ https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/reviving-a-vintage-secondary-split-flap-clock-with-arduino/
21:36 TR Bot; Reviving a vintage secondary split-flap clock with Arduino | Arduino Blog
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21:38 TR News; Fedora to disallow CC0-licensed code [LWN] https://lwn.net/Articles/902410/ Source: LWN | Kernel | Linux | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lwn.net/Articles/902410/
=> ↺ https://lwn.net/Articles/902410/
=> ↺ gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lwn.net/Articles/902410/
21:38 TR Bot; to disallow CC0-licensed code [LWN.net]
21:39 TR News; GNU poke 2.4 released Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167657 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/GNU_poke_2.4_released.shtml #news
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167657
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21:39 TR Bot; GNU poke 2.4 released | Tux Machines
21:39 TR Bot; GNU poke 2.4 released
21:40 TR News; Nobara Is a Fedora-Based Linux Distro with Gamers in Mind Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167658 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Nobara_Is_a_Fedora-Based_Linux_Distro_with_Gamers_in_Mind.shtml
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21:40 TR Bot; Nobara Is a Fedora-Based Linux Distro with Gamers in Mind | Tux Machines
21:40 TR Bot; Nobara Is a Fedora-Based Linux Distro with Gamers in Mind
21:43 XRevan86; Ariadne: What is this in-ear monitor thing ye speak of?
21:45 Ariadne; XRevan86: i have two, both have bugs with pipewire -- a pair of airpods pro, and some samsung one that i rarely use because it's even buggier
21:45 TR News; What is the Rc Shell and How to Install It in Linux - Make Tech Easier https://www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-rc-shell-linux/ Source: maketecheasier | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-rc-shell-linux/
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21:45 TR Bot; What is the Rc Shell and How to Install It in Linux - Make Tech Easier
21:45 Ariadne; both work just fine with pulseaudio
21:50 XRevan86; Fine, I'll look up what that is.
21:54 TR News; Microsoft kept away https://www.itjungle.com/2022/07/25/no-plan-to-bring-net-to-power-ibm-says/
=> ↺ https://www.itjungle.com/2022/07/25/no-plan-to-bring-net-to-power-ibm-says/
21:54 TR Bot; No Plan To Bring .NET To Power, IBM Says - IT Jungle
21:58 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167659 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/howtos_2.shtml #news
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21:58 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
21:58 TR Bot; today's howtos
21:59 TR News; The 6 Best Vim Plugin Managers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167660 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/The_6_Best_Vim_Plugin_Managers.shtml #news
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21:59 TR Bot; The 6 Best Vim Plugin Managers | Tux Machines
21:59 TR Bot; The 6 Best Vim Plugin Managers
22:05 TR News; Berlin Mini GUADEC http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633#comment-34431
=> ↺ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633#comment-34431
22:05 TR Bot; Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 | Tux Machines
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22:10 TR News; Seafile - Sync and Share Your Files Ubuntu Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167661 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Fedora_and_IBM_Leftovers.shtml #news
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22:10 TR Bot; Seafile - Sync and Share Your Files Ubuntu | Tux Machines
22:10 TR Bot; Fedora and IBM Leftovers
22:10 TR News; Fedora and IBM Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167662 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Seafile_-_Sync_and_Share_Your_Files_Ubuntu.shtml #news
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22:10 TR Bot; Fedora and IBM Leftovers | Tux Machines
22:10 TR Bot; Seafile - Sync and Share Your Files Ubuntu
22:13 TR News; Findex - A Super Fast Tool to Search & Launch Your Apps in Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167663
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22:13 TR Bot; Findex - A Super Fast Tool to Search & Launch Your Apps in Linux | Tux Machines
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22:23 TR News; Links 25/07/2022: Mozilla Firefox 103 and GNU poke 2.4 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/mozilla-firefox-103/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/mozilla-firefox-103/
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22:23 TR Bot; Links 25/07/2022: Mozilla Firefox 103 and GNU poke 2.4 | Techrights
22:24 TR News; Open Hardware/Modding: Arduino and Rakwireless Wisblock Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167664 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Open_HardwareModding:_Arduino_and_Rakwireless_Wisblock.shtml #news
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22:24 TR Bot; Open Hardware/Modding: Arduino and Rakwireless Wisblock | Tux Machines
22:24 TR Bot; Open Hardware/Modding: Arduino and Rakwireless Wisblock
22:25 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167665 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/today's_leftovers.shtml #news
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22:25 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines
22:25 TR Bot; today's leftovers
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23:04 matey; habitually they also misplace blame (offloading culpability for malware to "Linux") in order to shift the public's attention, partly because GNU/Linux and BSD are optimal alternatives for security-minded governments/enterprises
23:05 matey; if im not mistaken, roy said bsd is an optimal alternative for security-minded governments/enterprises
23:05 matey; ive never been an enterprise before. i considered myself more of a defiant
23:06 matey; but unlike the defiant, i have a docking port
23:11 bagira; matey, im in enterprise (fortune list only consultant)
23:11 bagira; he's right
23:11 matey; fun
23:11 matey; oh yeah
23:11 matey; its just
23:11 bagira; most corporate environments that are security sensitive use linux
23:11 bagira; almost none use bsd
23:12 matey; why
23:12 bagira; some use windows and invariably shift to linux for hosted services
23:12 bagira; its not cost, rhel is the dominant player in that space and it costs pretty decent
23:12 bagira; its just better to manage with many hosts
23:12 bagira; and it is more secure
23:13 matey; linux is more secure than bsd?
23:13 bagira; windows environments are usually full of holes both for infosec and config mgmt
23:13 matey; i think we are talking about two diferent things
23:13 matey; or at least two slightly different things
23:13 bagira; no bsd isnt widely used because its ecosystem of components and management tools is much smaller
23:14 matey; it would have helped (this is no fault of yours) if youd known the context of my first comment on this topic
23:14 bagira; it just wont fit into a corporate systems config mgmgt or it security model
23:14 bagira; windows is actually a better choice than bsd for most corporate environments with many machines running
23:15 bagira; not because the os is better (it isn't) but because it costs less to run large scale when you look at staffing overhead and equipment
23:15 matey; well youve just guaranteed my next year will be unpleasant
23:16 bagira; why's that
23:16 matey; because ever since i moved to bsd roy has slagged it off over the most ridiculous (even made up) things he can give his hands on
23:16 matey; you basically just provided him with a nuclear arsenal for trolling
23:16 bagira; lol
23:16 bagira; im not saying i would use windows
23:16 matey; its not your fault for saying what you think is true based on your professional knowledge
23:16 bagira; i only use it when the client wont budge
23:17 bagira; ii reliably turn down jobs that require the use of azure for anything other than managed native services
23:17 matey; yeah
23:18 matey; but note what hes saying here at least:
23:18 matey; "because GNU/Linux and BSD are optimal alternatives for security-minded governments/enterprises"
23:18 matey; hes actually saying bsd is "optimal" for governments and enterprise
23:18 bagira; not at scale
23:18 matey; what i intended to do
23:18 matey; was tease him about saying something positive about bsd when he slags it off so much
23:19 matey; i was already aware of the marketshare issue
23:19 matey; it just wont fit into a corporate systems config mgmgt or it security model <- some of this is because the model is written around windows and gnu/linux in the first place
23:20 matey; how much? i dont know.
23:20 matey; but i think its fair to say
23:20 matey; the whole point of microsoft getting into training and a+ and all that, is to make it so you have to know windows to get those credentials
23:21 matey; then the ecosystem expects this as a standard
23:21 matey; but again, how much of this is circular/authoritarian/marketing-determined standards and how much is actually good common sense / security is up for debate obviously
23:21 matey; it isnt my intention to get into such a debate, only to say
23:21 bagira; until they can get ansible running well on it, comprehensively, and easily available, and get paid support that comes even close to what rhel provides, bsd doesn't have a chance in corporate or gov outside of small envs, and wont have that "interface" to corporations
23:22 matey; this will make the next year unpleasant
23:22 matey; and get paid support that comes even close to what rhel provides, bsd doesn't have a chance in corporate or gov outside of small envs <- that isnt shocking to me
23:22 bagira; i dont like ansible btw
23:22 matey; the market is designed around products more than the other way around
23:22 bagira; im just saying, if you want to sell an os to corporate, you need paid support and you need ansible
23:22 matey; the tail wags the dog
23:22 bagira; yes
23:22 bagira; i feel the same way about microservice architecture
23:23 matey; if you want to sell an os to corporate <- fortunately this is neither one of my ambitions, nor the reason i promote bsd
23:23 matey; its almost (not quite) like saying "it doesnt matter how nice the dress is, if she wants it in pink and you dont have that, she isnt interested"
23:24 bagira; well, i mean, you said corporate and gov.
23:24 matey; which is a sound argument if she wants pink and you dont have that.
23:24 matey; you said corporate and gov. <- true but only in a quote
23:24 matey; and then a response
23:24 bagira; most corps and govs would rather pay for something than get it for free
23:24 bagira; because then someone is on the hook for it
23:24 matey; that doesnt surprise me either
23:24 matey; yeah
23:24 matey; i mean
23:24 matey; the dod can ignore both patents and copyright
23:24 matey; they can legally do wtf they want
23:24 matey; they go to other countries and kill lots of people
23:25 matey; "oh shit! but we arent following the gpl license for this missile!"
23:25 matey; but like you say
23:25 matey; they want someone they can blame
23:25 matey; and its easy to buy that
23:25 matey; "oh shit! but we arent following the gpl license for this missile!" <- one of many reasons ethical source is such tripe
23:26 matey; its a a copyright license and they arent bound to it
23:26 matey; but they get more than a license when they buy something
23:27 matey; they get a service contract
23:27 matey; thats where the money is
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23:31 bagira; yep red hat is a services company not a product company
23:32 matey; disservices
23:33 matey; systemd-servicesd
23:33 matey; systemd-take-off-every-zig-move-zigd
23:34 matey; /me hasnt checked if it works this way
23:34 matey; but one thing they havent done with doom yes is run it in pid 1 with systemd as a service
23:35 matey; i somehow doubt it runs services in the same pid of course-- the only issue its such a giant ridiculous thing to have there in the first place
23:35 matey; pid-doom-1
23:35 matey; doom as a service
23:35 bagira; wait until those idiots at systemd start trying to integrate wayland-gnome into systemd
23:36 bagira; theyre prob goign to try to push out all other desktops and force user choice
23:36 matey; gnomeos
23:36 matey; xfce is already gnomes bitch
23:36 matey; they didnt volunteer, gnome are arseholes
23:36 matey; i call everything like that arseholeware
23:36 matey; its not because the devs are arseholes
23:36 bagira; yeah that shit needs isolated to its own little bubble
23:37 matey; its becauese the software itself acts like an arsehole
23:37 matey; it needs antigravs attached and beamed into space like nomad
23:37 matey; I AM SYSTEMD. I AM PERFECT.
23:37 matey; who am i?
23:37 bagira; lol
23:37 matey; YOU ARE THE LENNART.
23:37 matey; im not the lennart! you made an error!
23:38 matey; Error! Error! Must... Analyse...
23:38 matey; you failed to recognise the error, you made TWO errors!
23:38 matey; ERoorrr! errRor!
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23:38 bagira; ya know i dont think ive ever seen a worse product than red hat certificate system
23:38 matey; execute your prime function!
23:38 matey; maybe windows itself
23:39 matey; but a lot of these product lines-- trying to rank them its own game of cards against humanity
23:39 bagira; its not that its over-engineered its that its so poorly understood by its own developers and technical writers
23:39 matey; cards against technology
23:39 matey; #techrights : 07/25/22 22:39 <- im gonna go out on a limb and say these are connected somehow
23:40 matey; its not that its over-engineered its that its so poorly understood by its own developers <- this i mean
23:40 DaemonFC; You came here to deadname and get Matt GULAG fired up, and you're unfortunately no all out of Matt GULAGs.
23:40 DaemonFC; *not
23:41 bagira; hm? im not tracking
23:41 matey; if you overengineer it... youll be stumped
23:42 DaemonFC; There is still one Matt GULAG here.
23:42 DaemonFC; Which is one Mr. GULAG too many.
23:42 DaemonFC; Do not feed Mr. GULAG.
23:42 bagira; lol
23:42 matey; i realise that overengineering has other more prominent connotations
23:42 matey; and at least in some instances may not lead to a system no one understands
23:43 matey; but overengineering is harder, and might be done poorly
23:43 matey; and at that point you are indeed fucked
23:43 DaemonFC; People who actually use the term "deadnaming" should be court ordered to wear a shock collar that goes off every time they say the word.
23:43 matey; linus could not fork linux on his own anymore
23:43 matey; he doesnt even know how it works
23:43 matey; his own admission
23:43 bagira; eh give it time, he'll either grow or fail, he's not a particularly difficult task, just a tedious one. he's really quite shallow imo.
23:43 bagira; gulag i mean
23:43 matey; not a scandal, but surely it says something
23:44 DaemonFC; I get bumping Linux to C11, but putting Rust in it is unfortunate.
23:44 DaemonFC; Those idiots that wanted to put C++ in it came back and did something even worse.
23:44 matey; gulag is obviously the most oversophisticated webcrawler in the world
23:44 bagira; the trick to guys like gulag DaemonFC is that when they run into one of their own they're so used to browbeating "the little people" in their view that they dont know what's going on and thing just jam up alot
23:44 DaemonFC; And now they'll write spaghetti code that takes a million hours and a bajillion gigaquads of RAM to even compile.
23:45 bagira; most people in this space don't make names for themselves at all let alone off the bodies of better people
23:45 DaemonFC; The key to attacking people who don't want to deal with Rust is accuse them of transphobia.
23:45 matey; why not
23:45 DaemonFC; Another word where the shock collar should activate.
23:46 DaemonFC; SeaMonkey is having a lot of problems due to Mozilla's use of Rust.
23:46 DaemonFC; Stylo and WebRender don't work at all and have been disabled for the time being.
23:46 Ariadne; i think gccrs will make rust a lot more tolerable
23:47 DaemonFC; Which is okay for now, because the Rust code isn't THAT MUCH better than the C++ version it replaced, performance-wise, with Stylo.
23:47 bagira; DaemonFC, its unfortunate what crying wolf results in
23:47 matey; it would be nice if they made it stable
23:47 matey; so it was less like a webapi posing as a programming language
23:47 Ariadne; but a lot of memory safety issues in C can be detected by modern compilers
23:47 DaemonFC; Missing WebRender is unfortunate because SeaMonkey picks up a lot of jank from having to deal with X11.
23:48 bagira; yeah it just seems like a waste to invent a new language when we just needed more attention to project structure and preprocessor
23:48 Ariadne; i also think that stuff like MMIO does not map well to rust's memory model
23:48 DaemonFC; What you're seeing, performance wise, when SeaMonkey stutters a little, is more likely than not to be XWayland issues.
23:48 matey; i dont think its ever a waste to create a new language
23:48 Ariadne; seems like a lot of kernel code would be unsafe{}
23:48 DaemonFC; There's some sites that are starting to fall apart in SeaMonkey.
23:48 matey; but its a waste to use it to try to take over everything else
23:48 DaemonFC; I can't browse gitlab repos with it.
23:49 matey; mincer pwned mjg really hard (at least in terms of rhetoric)
23:49 Ariadne; anyway, rust is nice to program in for new things
23:49 matey; mjg said you couldnt do memory safe in other languages
23:49 DaemonFC; Matt J. GULAG.....suuuuuuuper genius.
23:49 Ariadne; as in, the language has nice ergonomics
23:49 matey; mincer said he would take turing completeness over memory safe anyday
23:49 DaemonFC; mateymjg said you couldnt do memory safe in other languages
23:49 DaemonFC; If you know what you're doing, you can.
23:49 matey; nice ergonomics are nice
23:50 Ariadne; DaemonFC: you can't do provable memory safety in any language with UB
23:50 matey; but the way a lot of people put rust together with chewing gum and duct tape, some of the ergonomics are lost
23:50 DaemonFC; Besides, in Rust you don't always have memory safety.
23:50 matey; "this is a nice way to bolt 200 random things together"
23:50 Ariadne; practical memory safety is another story, of course
23:50 matey; "what are you building?"
23:50 matey; "a yes / no dialogue"
23:50 Ariadne; but the interesting story about rust is the verifier
23:50 Ariadne; and it can verify a lot of things other than memory safety
23:50 Ariadne; for example, rust is good for writing emulators
23:50 DaemonFC; Saying you're memory safe in Rust because you can do 80% of all that's possible without invoking unsafe is ridiculous.
23:51 Ariadne; because you can develop against constraints
23:51 DaemonFC; Because it's always that other 20%.
23:51 Ariadne; and the compiler is smart enough to check your work
23:51 DaemonFC; So maybe you're better at keeping track of WHERE the hazards are likely to be.
23:51 DaemonFC; but that's it.
23:51 Ariadne; does not mean i think rust is the answer to all problems though :)
23:51 matey; if anything its the cause of many
23:51 DaemonFC; You could create some subset of C or some other language that uses C that manages the nasty bits for you.
23:52 bagira; i think the whole approach is wrong if they want to replace c. they need to start with a kernel and replace the c layer, and writing language bindings for c to sit on top of it
23:52 DaemonFC; In fact, that's what Vala is.
23:52 matey; but c makes you think like a pdp, man
23:52 bagira; matey, pig in a pope hat?
23:52 matey; :)
23:53 DaemonFC; I agree that nobody using a modern language should have to worry about reference counting, garbage collection, etc.
23:53 DaemonFC; Vala sends that all off to GObject.
23:53 matey; www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24d8v8/whats_your_favorite_yes_phrase_like_does_a_bear/
23:53 matey; "Does the pope shit in his hat?" -Hank Schrader (Breaking Bad) 4. Share. Report Save. level 1 8 yr. ago. Does a hobby horse have a wooden dick? 3. Share. Report Save. level 1 8 yr. ago "Is the pope's ass watertight?" (My mom tends to jumble phrases together.)
23:54 MinceR; any code written in SIMPLE is memory safe
23:54 Ariadne; the big deal about rust isn't the memory safety -- rust isn't even the first language to have memory safety
23:54 MinceR; it doesn't do anything, but considering most "modern" software, that's rarely a disadvantage
23:54 MinceR; rust is a bondage-and-discipline language with no free implementation, controlled by MICROS~1
23:55 Ariadne; the big deal is that you get all of the infrastructure you would expect of an ML descendant
23:55 Ariadne; but with syntax that is easy for people to pick up verses ML
23:56 Ariadne; the fact that you can define a model, and code against it, and have the compiler check your work, and this is available in a language that isn't Haskell or F#, e.g. one that normal people can use, is a huge deal
23:56 DaemonFC; Amusingly, it's almost always Microsoft sites that fail to work or something in SeaMonkey.
23:56 DaemonFC; I've created a collection of fake useragents for those.
23:56 matey; given that i dont care per se
23:56 matey; whats wrong with haskell?
23:56 DaemonFC; Ranging from desktop and mobile Safari to Internet Explorer 11.
23:56 MinceR; and then you'll believe that your code has no flaws, when in fact you merely made sure that your model has the same flaws
23:56 Ariadne; MinceR: well yes :)
23:56 MinceR; haskell is "pure", which makes it impractical
23:56 MinceR; there are plenty of algorithms that depend on mutable state
23:57 matey; like dove soap
23:57 *Now talking on #techrights
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23:57 Ariadne; going back to emulators, for a second
23:57 MinceR; and having me translate them to a stateless algorithm only for the compiler to translate it again to a stateful algorithm is a waste of effort and resources
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23:57 Ariadne; in rust, you can define a model for, say, a CPU
23:57 *rsheftel1435 (~rsheftel@freenode-4nq.hn3.1cipql.IP) has joined #techrights
23:57 matey; 100% pure (its only soap. its not for example, 1% candy mint)
23:57 *sbp (~sbp@freenode-m7i.q7q.b87eii.IP) has joined #techrights
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23:57 Ariadne; and then check your implementation against it
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23:57 Ariadne; and know at compile time that your emulated CPU matches what you believe the CPU should be doing
23:58 *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@freenode/user/Noisytoot) has joined #techrights
23:58 matey; its a breath soap, its a candy soap-- its two soaps in one
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23:59 matey; unless its a game console cpu
23:59 matey; then you have to account for all the undocumented shit in there
23:59 Ariadne; well, yes, but that's always part of the work of developing emulators :p
23:59 matey; yeah i know :)
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