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Written by David Monniaux on 2025-02-01 at 19:22

Dear @ACM @sigplan, what is your position on holding conferences in the US, especially with respect to minorities, women and LGBT, especially T?

I know that scientific conferences are sometimes held in countries that do not treat women & LGBT correctly, but somehow these countries' policies are often predictible, whereas the US is now characterized by instability.

We can't hold conferences in a place where attendees may get arrested for something as mundane as going to the bathroom.

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Descendants

Written by medium rare bird on 2025-02-01 at 19:33

@MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan I have bad news, but the ACM has never (in my memory at least, 2010 onward) been a progressive organization

it would be wonderful if they took the chance to start now

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Written by William "New Year’s Revolution" Bowman on 2025-02-01 at 19:41

@MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan My personal thoughts on this are that I may boycott US conferences. If sufficiently many members decide to do this, it may become uneconomical for SIGPLAN to hold conferences there, regardless of any political decisions.

There are downsides to not holding conferences in the US, as many others have pointed out. But I also think we need to hold fewer conferences in general.

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Written by David Monniaux on 2025-02-01 at 19:42

@wilbowma @ACM @sigplan The conference model I grew up with is not ecologically sustainable.

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Written by Kristopher Micinski on 2025-02-01 at 20:33

@wilbowma @MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan ICFP and OOPSLA are in Singapore. How’s the situation for trans folks there?

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Written by William "New Year’s Revolution" Bowman on 2025-02-01 at 20:40

@krismicinski @MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan I don’t know. But as David says, probably more predictable than in the US

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Written by Kristopher Micinski on 2025-02-01 at 20:42

@wilbowma @MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan maybe, maybe. I’m all for holding conferences outside of the US. Also more remote participation. That’s all good with me. The US is so fucking disgraceful right now. What a sad joke

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Written by William "New Year’s Revolution" Bowman on 2025-02-01 at 20:48

@krismicinski @MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan Yeah. More remote and less reliance on conferences in general seems like a solution to many problems, although with problems of its own

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Written by Asta Halkjær From on 2025-02-01 at 20:54

@krismicinski @wilbowma @MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan no self id, but also not an actively hostile government. I would feel safe travelling to Singapore.

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Written by Kristopher Micinski on 2025-02-01 at 21:22

@ahfrom @sigplan @ACM @MonniauxD @wilbowma this is basically what I call "actively hostile," but I'm biased: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/jail-former-nus-assistant-professor-smoked-cannabis-drug-utensils-4800296. The US is definitely actively hostile if you don't fit a very particular mold in society (white, relatively affluent, etc.). It's very, very inconsistent, really depends on where you live, etc.

I am not really taking a stance here, the current trajectory in the US sucks, and it must be stopped or else the US will just fall (which may happen, of course)

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Written by Asta Halkjær From on 2025-02-01 at 21:25

@krismicinski @sigplan @ACM @MonniauxD @wilbowma We're talking past each other. I'm trans.

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Written by Kristopher Micinski on 2025-02-01 at 21:26

@ahfrom @sigplan @ACM @MonniauxD @wilbowma I didn't think we were talking past each other at all--I know you are trans and have for a long time, being trans in NYS seems reasonably good (or at least my trans colleagues and friends here tell me). I agree with you that inconsistent laws are an issue

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Written by Asta Halkjær From on 2025-02-01 at 21:28

@krismicinski @sigplan @ACM @MonniauxD @wilbowma I think we are talking past each other, but I'll leave it at that.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2025/01/23/trump-administration-moves-reject-transgender-identity-rights

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Written by Jason Carr on 2025-02-01 at 20:12

@MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan Regrettably, I forget who, but someone mentioned the value in exposing countries to science that need it. But this heavily depends on the value of conferences. As a person comfortably within LGBT in the US (not as T as possible but not not trans) It's certainly nice to be able to attend conferences. Because those folks are mostly stuck here for now. Of course, just putting them a bit up north or south of the US is a viable option for US citizens (I can't speak to other residents) and that may help avoid excluding a full continent of people. I've heard the visa process for the US sucks anyway

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Written by Martin Escardo on 2025-02-01 at 20:27

@MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan

My position (as I have stated before), is that I am not going to attend any conference in the US, no matter what. More generally, I am not going to set my foot in the US in the foreseeable future.

And let this be clear: this is not a boycott. I am not interested in supporting, by my mere presence, what is happening in the US.

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Written by Mx Autumn :blobcatpumpkin: on 2025-02-01 at 20:56

@MartinEscardo @MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan I told my management team on Friday that I would not be attending any conferences or team meets in the US for the foreseeable future. I’m apparently not the only one.

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Written by Martin Escardo on 2025-02-01 at 21:21

@carbontwelve @MonniauxD @ACM

@sigplan

I am happy to meet my friends in the US online from here. I am not boycotting them.

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Written by Mx Autumn :blobcatpumpkin: on 2025-02-01 at 22:38

@MartinEscardo @MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan yes, what I meant was I am not flying over. Online is fine.

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Written by spamned on 2025-02-01 at 21:15

@MonniauxD @ACM @sigplan Wonderful that you have concerns for the marginalized...where are the masks?

Covid still a pandemic (case counts) and still maiming and disabling.

Ableism sure is ugly and effect far more people than those you keep focusing on.

Do better.

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