I just paid rent. It was free, through my bank app, and got to my landlord basically instantly. All I needed was my property manager's email address.
I could send money to a friend the same way.
This doesn't sound much different than ACH or PayPal but I assure you it is 1000% nicer.
One of the many things you don't realize living in the US is how much friction is added to basically everything you do to ensure some middleman or service provider can profit off of it.
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@tess That's free in the US to me thru my bank's website, but takes a day or two to arrive.
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@dalias @tess Many landlords/condos have auto-deduct to a tenant bank account. It's auto-processed by landlord/condo without anyone, them or renter, thinking about it, and no fee. Once authorized by the tenant, of course.
Win-win.
That may certainly not apply to every landlord! But it is in their interest to set it up since payment is now automatic and never late.
Lots of other bills, fees, credit cards, utilities, you can do the same.
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@MarkSquiresWine @tess Yeah, no thanks. The fine print for that always allows them to do abusive things, and even if not, you can end up with overdrafts because it's via ACH which isn't synchronous with available balance.
Even if you want automated payments, you want them scheduled and initiated "push" by the sender at their bank, not "pull" by the recipient.
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@dalias @tess Well, I'm fortunate that I point to accounts that won't have overdraft issues.
I was a lawyer. I read these once upon a time. I've had auto deductions for 20 years with some vendors. No issues.
What fine print and abuses are you talking about specifically?
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@MarkSquiresWine @tess Like pretty sure they'd authorize the landlord to charge you extra for claimed damages when you move out, rather than them having to go to court if they want more than your deposit. Or even if not really authorized, slimy landlord would do it if they thought you couldn't afford a lawyer.
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@dalias @tess I see nothing like that authorized in my ACH.
If you're confronted with a lawless crook, ultimately there's a problem somewhere. No game plan fixes everything. They will find a way to drive you crazy somehow if there is an imbalance in power. (It's one reason I became a lawyer!)
OTOH, with auto-deduct, I have never had a late fee or notice, have a great credit rating as a result, and my obligation gets auto paid even if I'm traveling out of the country. It has advantages too.
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@MarkSquiresWine
Dude that's the combination of auto deduct and having a high enough balance. Not just auto deduct. Most people don't have significant extra money in the account - if the rent & an unexpected medium expense hit at the same time it can really screw most Americans.
@dalias @tess
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@thesquirrelfish @MarkSquiresWine @dalias @tess I've had rent and utilities double and triple deduct from my account due to system errors. It's a terrible system
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@feld
I've been using auto deduct on various bills from credit cards to rent for decades.
That's never happened to me, even once. With several merchants of different types over DECADES. You must be really unlucky. But your experience is not mine or universal.
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@MarkSquiresWine
Correct, you are in a minority who are privileged enough to have not experienced these problems so far.
@feld
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@thesquirrelfish @MarkSquiresWine consider also if the company doing the ACH debits gets hacked you can do all sorts of fun thing with that information, like using the account to fund stolen credit card accounts because credit card companies don't do any extra authorization when you add an ACH as the funding source
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@feld Every time you pay someone with a check, online or paper, they see your bank account number and the routing number. Which is all you give them when you want an ACH deduction. What's the difference?
Unless you're going to commit to giving them cash payments every month or going to the effort of getting a money order, they already have your account information anytime they want to take a look at it. Nothing has really changed.
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@MarkSquiresWine Yeah that's why I haven't used checks in over 10 years. Even for my business. If I have to pay and can't do it electronically I go get a money order or if possible use my bank's ability to send a check on my behalf using their account
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@MarkSquiresWine Reminder that we're the only country on the planet that still still uses banking technology from the 1980s because we are afraid of disrupting Visa/Mastercard.
Thankfully crypto will solve this. I'd gladly do more payments with stablecoins if I had the option.
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@dalias @MarkSquiresWine @tess
One of the first things you do when moving out is cancel the authorization, copy to the bank. So simple.
Standard in Europe, rent, utilities, the lot .
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@uc @MarkSquiresWine @tess ACH has no such concept as cancelling authorization.
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@dalias @MarkSquiresWine @tess
Then why sign it?
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@uc @MarkSquiresWine @tess There's no signature. All it takes is knowing the bank and account number. Any signed authorization is just evidence if the person you're pulling money from takes you to court, not part of getting the money.
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@dalias @MarkSquiresWine @tess
Wouldn't be legal in the real world. If I don't authorize payment, it doesn't happen. If someone tries taking payment without authorization I recall it with the click of a button.
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@dalias @uc @tess
To authorize ACH, I went to my vendors' sites and said I authorize ACH auto-pay and entered my bank account information.
All I have to do to unauthorize it is go back to the site and uncheck that box. I can also remove the bank account information as a method of payment from that part of the vendor site.
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@MarkSquiresWine @dalias @tess
Electronic signature, in effect.
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