To my "ethics in software" specialists, what would be a good reading list/authoritative source for someone wanting to dive deep in the differences between say the US bar association ethics enforcement (yeah i know) and software. Especially with a historical comparison of how we got there for both. The profession of reference framing can be different, medical or engineering or whatever.
Friends seems to want to dive so eh.
@CatherineFlick maybe?
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick oh, what an excellent question
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@ireneista @CatherineFlick i honestly find it pretty uninteresting, but my take on "professional ethics enforcement org" is mostly that they are randomness of history. They are not particularly efficient and tend to ossify the outcome more than anything. Also highly country (ie political landscape) specific.
But lot of people seems to see them as an achievement or a maturity point so... I have to deal with this stuff.
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick well
we've thought carefully about it for years and we've decided that we don't think professional licensing is the right route for programming, because it freezes ethics in place, but moral principles must adapt to a changing world - since bad actors do
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick that said, we definitely understand the motivation. it creates a power structure greater than any one practitioner, essentially holding your own future career hostage to your good behavior, so that you have a way to push back against your boss if they demand you do something unethical
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick just, as an anarchist and an activist who's been around a lot... none of the work we've done advocating for ethics in software would have been possible if there were already a licensing body, because agitating for change is too easily suppressed by something like that
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick .... but the fact that we have such a strong opinion that it shouldn't happen, means the history of how it has happened in other professions is immensely important stuff to study
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@ireneista @CatherineFlick my answer is different and parallel.
It is highly practical to sometimes provide a sacrifice to the social and political gods, in order to appease them, show contrition and manage to keep the peace by being afforded forgiveness as a group.
Sometimes, this religious belief end up ossified into a professional organisation, but the behaviour exists with or without it.
The usefulness of this religious behaviour in term of protecting society and people from the professionals is debatable, but its uses in term of preserving a certain "social peace" by preserving an illusion of work as imagined by society of this profession job and role is definitely high ...
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick huh. interesting. more cynical than us, which is impressive.
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@ireneista @CatherineFlick the resilience engineer community and researchers can be highly cynical and highly optimistic at the same time. It is a wonderful set of people trying despite fully expecting to fail, because we are too damn angry at people getting harmed to stop.
Yeah it is a trip
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick hah, neat! it's like the saying about how information privacy requires "cheerful pessimists" who say "everything is terrible - we'd better get started!"
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@Di4na I have no idea about US bar association ethics enforcement I’m afraid!
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@CatherineFlick right. No paper around comparing different regime in different profession and how software engineering is "different" (difference may be only historical and age, or a particular set of incidents, etc. not trying to norm too much there, this come from said friend.)
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@Di4na I mean there’s Moor’s What is Computer Ethics if that’s the sort of thing. https://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/188/spring06/papers/moor.html
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick It’s not exactly what you’re asking for, but I would highly recommend reading https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1817931.html if you’re interested in this area and you haven’t seen it yet
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@Di4na @CatherineFlick the only work I know -which really sets the limits on ethics and software is:
Software aspects of strategic defense systems
DL Parnas explains why Reagan's "Star Wars" project would never be viable and that anyone taking money for it is endangering humanity by maintaining the belief that it would work.
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/382288.382289
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