Yes, nazi salutes can hurt you. But nazi policies can hurt you much more.
How're people more agitated by a nazi salute than by nazi policies? I don't get it.🤷🏿♂️
👨🏼"Well, now it's open fascism!"
Why is closed fascism any better? The same policies are happening.
Your assignment hasn't changed: Protect the most vulnerable.
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@mekkaokereke
I don't think "agitated" is the right word.
But the reason it excites people is because it's a lot harder to deny people are fascists when they wear the symbols of fascists, and we have a lot of fascism denial in this country.
This is the kind of thing that could maybe wake up the blase white bible-belter to the what they've wrought.
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@louis
Before Trump was inaugurated in 2016, nazis gave lots of speeches around the country and in DC that were covered by mainstream press, where they did lots of nazi salutes.
Fox News anchors have done similar nazi salutes on stage at other points during Trump's term.
Nazis have been floating around CPAC for years.
I don't see how this is a big difference from those. Like, why is this any more undeniable?
(And no I'm not sharing those videos links. We all know what a nazi salute looks like).
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@mekkaokereke Because, afaik, those nazis never saluted on-stage at a Trump event.
People respond to symbology. If Trump says "deport all immigrants", people say "eh, he doesn't mean it." But if he says it while wearing a swastika armband, those folks sit up and start paying attention.
There's a reason the high-profile nazis in this country typically avoid those symbols like the plague, at least when not behind closed doors.
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@louis
One was literally on stage at the RNC, in a speech honoring Trump.
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@mekkaokereke Are you referring to the Ingraham one? If so, watch again and notice how she at least has the shame to hide it and make it ambiguous. Whenever they do it in public, there's always a mask, an excuse, something to give the average person an out to say "oh that wasn't really a nazi symbol."
But Elon's was blatant and unequivocal, even coming from the chest first. It was shameless and unmasked, and that might make the difference.
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@louis
Yes that's one. Another is that the Alt-Right was literally founded by a person that does nazi salutes and wants to ethnically cleanse the US to turn it into a "whites only ethno-state." His words. His plan to do this is through policy at first. His best friend from Duke university, now sets US immigration policy. Again.
All of this has been publicly available knowledge for the past 8 years.
I think some people are still holding out hope that the supporters of these policies would reject them if they only knew that they were ethnic cleansing policies. I... don't have that hope.
The only thing that I've observed that makes people that support these policies decide not to support these policies any more, is when they experience that these policies harm themselves too. It's selfishness, not empathy, or caring about other people, or rejection of fascism, that makes them change.
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... don't deport my family members."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... let me hire H1-Bs."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... keep funding Ukraine's military."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... don't bankrupt my agribusiness."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... I need my government job, so I hope it's not eliminated."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... I need this health insurance, so I hope they leave ACA alone."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... California needs FEMA help, so I hope they don't take that away."
Etc.
Each group wants fascism for others, even when the fascists promise a little fascism for them too.
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@mekkaokereke There is undeniably a large sect of people who are exactly like you describe. This won't convince them.
The folks I think it would convince are the ones who don't really pay attention to politics other than what they hear other folks talking about around the water cooler. The ones who vote, not as an informed decision, but rather as a social function. The ones who feel left behind in life, but are too stupid or lazy to identify who exactly is leaving them behind.
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@mekkaokereke FWIW, I appear to have been quite wrong about this.
I posted it where some of my right-wing family could see it, and they're mostly writing it off as a fabrication of CNN and MSNBC, ignoring their own eyes.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick a football.
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@louis @mekkaokereke
One of my former colleagues is a former conservative and he posted it to FB outraged about it and all of his family and friends are jumping all over him about misinformation, misleading still images, defamation, leftist lies, etc. etc.
"I wonder how you would do if someone had a camera on you 24/7 willing to take anything out of context, hm??"
This is who they are now. Who a lot of them always were.
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@q_aurelius @louis @mekkaokereke
This sounds exactly like the kind of behavior that’s apparently typical of people who’ve been conned and are presented with evidence of the con. They double down.
There’s a scene in the life of Ponzi (the actual guy) where a crowed showed up demanding their money back, and left having given him even more money. They had enough doubt to march there, and they •still• doubled down in the end.
Keep at it. People don’t admit they’ve been conned at the first piece of contrary evidence. It takes sustained, repeated questions that cause doubt. Broken record therapy.
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@inthehands @q_aurelius @louis @mekkaokereke the conservative movement has created a perverse ratchet by normalizing treating others in ways you could only begin to justify if the conspiracy theories were true. I notice this most with religious people who play “Democrats made me vote for him” games because the alternative is admitting they’ve been wrong about everything. If the cartel child trafficking isn’t true, they’ve betrayed their principles and been beastly to former friends for nothing.
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@acdha
Yeah, there’s definitely a sunk cost fallacy for behavior too.
@q_aurelius @louis @mekkaokereke
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