Guys idk what language level this equates to but in Dutch I'm now able to understand most tw and radio programs or at least most of it, same with written news, sarcastic tweets about culture and news (like zwarte piet or vuurwerk), I love Lubach, I can listen to singers interviews, translate songs, read (non)fiction like
Bijna niets gebeurt toevallig or De Avonden by Gerard Reve. My mum told me my Dutch sounded better, too!
[#]languagelearning #dutch #languages #nederlands #selftaught
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@pitrouillesque Nice! Do you live in Netherlands or have you accomplished that level remotely, not hearing Dutch in your every day life?
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@Elias Hi, It's say 2/3 remotely and 1/3 living in the Netherlands, which helped a great deal with culture! I lived in the Netherlands for 9 months consecutively and then went back for the equivalent of two months to visit friends I had made there and holidays, my former roommates and landlord (helped too). I met new friends online I plan to visit! :) But we don't speak dutch a lot together because my friend is learning french and really needs it for work, she helps me though.
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@pitrouillesque Interesting! Thank you!
My reason for asking: I grew up in a small bilingual (swedish - finnish) coastal town in Finland. My native language is finnish. Even though it was a very pleasant method to complete my swedish "studies" in a relationship with a swedish speaking girl, the most valuable skill is metacognitive: hearing and using more than one language as a child alters your cognition and thus makes it easier to learn new languages.
I had a good luck in this. :)
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@Elias Oh I heard so, interesting story! I started "late" with english like 13yo I think? Swedish is one of my next target languages I'm starting norwegian. I will agree with you, and I also think it's why dutch people don't switch when they do it with flemish people who share basically the language: you pick up things native say more easily, the way they speak, the way they ask for things, and how things work there. Knowing the little tricks and paraphrasing help a lot
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@pitrouillesque J'ai donc honte de ma paresse. Mon conjoint a fréquenté une école française et a étudié le français à l'université. Malgré cela, je ne peux me résoudre à l'obliger à parler français avec moi à la maison.:D
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@Elias Ne vous inquiétez pas, vivre dans une seconde langue est différente, apprenez vous le français vous aussi ? Peut-être est-il gêné de son niveau lui aussi. Ma maman ne veut pas parler allemand à la maison. J'ai essayé d'instaurer une boîte à mots pour écrire en allemand, mais elle est si fatiguée qu'elle n'a pas le temps...
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@pitrouillesque Le peu de français que je connais est dû à ma connaissance de l'italien. Pour le français, je dois tricher en utilisant un service comme DeepL, comme je viens de le faire. Cependant, même cette utilisation de la langue est propice à l'apprentissage.;-)
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@Elias Yes! It's also a good way of evaluating progress lol. Like when you start being able to correct the translator. I couldn't have tell it was deepl, though. Using similar languages is the way I manage to learn, I wish I had the money to live in Lyon during my studies bc my dream master was one that taught you all romance languages at the same time and at the end students were fluent!!!
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@pitrouillesque Put https://www.deepl.com in a stress test. It is the best translator I have found so far. It does a magnificient job compared to Google Translator for example.
(Google translator is BTW a good example of a languge tool that lacks virtually most lingual abilities - just like the angloamerican bubble that has created it. :P)
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@Elias Would you mind elaborate on that? I love discussing translators/translation with people.
What I find sad is that google translator could have an amazing potential if the people in charge of it wished to make it an actually useful tool. It's gotten better and it includes a lot of languages, but it sucks with specific formulations sometimes (not always) and it's hard to swich of ways of saying something, synonyms, small linguistic words etc. It's better than it once was
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@Elias but imo deepl is unmatched on terms of features and it"s a wonderful, actually useful translator you can use to have crosslanguage conversations and look for the correct vocabulary to use in context of a sentence or even a paragraph. I love it so much. I'm thinking of even paying for it to support them because it's useful to make word sheets from news articles for instance! It sometimes struggle with less common languages but not as much as google.
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@Elias I didn't have it as a kid but now I find also that the metacognitive skills are priceless, learning languages seems so much easier the most you learn. Dutch was my fourth taught language and second self taught, first was korean i forget everything of but was way more difficult. Seeing ressemblances and differences with english, french (sometimes swedish lol), german made it easier to later also add these languages to the list
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@pitrouillesque You are doing much better than me. :P
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@Elias I'm not sure, I still have trouble with complicated material. I forgot almost all my spanish, I can read it but not speak it, it's so frustrating! I almost lost all my Korean, I have only basics of German I just started and same with Norwegian I ended picking as main next target because of how similar it is with dutch to me that I understand native people speaking or tweets (maybe with the other languages too?) and I thought it was frustrating, but I also have no job currently!
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@pitrouillesque This is exactly why I have lost my ability of speaking German and Italian. I really don't have possibilties to use thos languages in Finland. Everyone wants to use English which is OK generally speaking but not very fruitful if one wants to learn languages.
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@Elias Yeah, I'm lucky enough to have Dutch friends else I would be cooked. I also think it's easier to get dutch or norwegian material in France than German or Italian material in Finland, even with internet, because of import costs and shipping right? Also knowing native people is easier to find good material. It's what I aim to do online for dutch learners. Also it requires so much time and dedication, for me it has always been a hobby, but with a job I struggle to maintain a good level
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@pitrouillesque Years ago a read about a "club" in Helsinki. It was called Imbisstube: a group of people gathered weekly in a restaurant and spoke German.
I copied the idea as I noticed that here in Turku there were many italian carpenters working in a shipyard. I have to confess that we did not eat that much but drank beer in a pub, and shouted into each other's mouths in italian style....
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@pitrouillesque Thank you for an interesting discussion. Now my dog wants to take me outdoors.
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@Elias Have a nice walk!!! pat the dog for me please <3
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@pitrouillesque Martta remercie et salue toutes les personnes sympathiques.
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@Elias When I arrived in the Netherlands I could only say "Hallo" "Hoe gaat het" "Dank u" and "Tot ziens". I tried really hard to learn it there but all my classes where both in English (taught) and French (native) with very intense courses and no dutch courses so I had to do it on my own, I managed to reach a "good at grocery shopping but awkward if the cashier speaks in a way books don't teach you in the first lessons" (i couldn't afford one so i stayed stuck on duo)
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@Elias And I learnt what I could with magazines, newspapers, product boxes, Donald Duck meant for kids, mixed words, vocabulary apps, i really tried but for some reason I got stuck on the sentence formation. I understood how it worked only when I went home, but almost one year of being massively exposed in the country really helped I think. By the end I could speak a bit and understand a bit, too. My friends were proud of my progresses and her parents hug me when i told them a story in dutch
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@Elias when I went back (had a really shitty day, well good but full of mishaps), and her mum told me "you went from barely feeling confident to say hello to be able to use two past tense when speaking, I'm so proud of you" ! it was so sweet!! also strangers don't switch languages when I speak even if some things make them smile.
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@pitrouillesque That’s amazing, well done!
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@arratoon thank you so much ! <3
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@pitrouillesque If you ever want to practise your English with a native speaker we could always do a video call, and I can assault your sensibilities with my terrible French…
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@pitrouillesque That’s a very high level, sounds like C1 or C2 to me
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@GreenSkyOverMe It could be, sadly I still miss critical vocabulary compared to how long I've been learning alone (like a criminal amount) and my understandinf is not as good as it should be after five years, the worse being speaking or writing, which makes it in fact only a high B2.
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@pitrouillesque Tools I use: With writing Duolingo helps, when one makes sure to switch to typing instead of choosing words from the word bank - in the browser on the computer this is offered more often than in the app. Hello Talk (app) helps, one chats with native speakers who want to learn your language. And Drops (app) helps with vocabulary.
With speaking … I guess one would need to find a native speaker to speak to which is really hard for free.
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@GreenSkyOverMe Does Hello talks really works? it scares me but i'd like it!
I actually have dutch friends I sometimes practice with but I'm fluent in languages they want to practice too and it's always mire convinient so I get to practice a bit but not too muxh.
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@pitrouillesque Hello Talk works well. It is chat in writing. For free you can translate a limited number of messages right in the app per day, paid unlimited. You can correct the other person’s errors right in the app.
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@GreenSkyOverMe Great method here, I use those they are amazing. Drops prouved to me suprisingly elaborated compared to any vocabulary or language learning app I has uses before
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