Ancestors

Written by Florian on 2024-12-11 at 19:49

Anyone who owns a #mantis Q40 #braille display noticing that thumb and routing keys are no longer passed onto #NVDA after the v2.4 update? Lot of cool stuff, but something seems to have gone screwy #screenReader #blind #humanware

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Written by NV Access on 2024-12-12 at 00:54

@zersiax I haven't seen any other reports of this yet (I don't have a unit to test with myself) - when did the v2.4 update come out? First, try restarting the PC - sometimes that fixes quirky behaviour. Do let me know if it's still happening

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-12 at 01:19

@NVAccess It came out, according to the timestamp Tuesday, 10 December 2024, 21:10:21 GMT. I have not updated but can do so and provide info as needed. Assume hwIo debug logging info would be useful to have?

Source: https://support.humanware.com/en-usa/support/brailliant_bi_x_series/software_and_drivers

@zersiax

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Written by NV Access on 2024-12-12 at 01:59

@twynn @zersiax Thank you, that would be useful (either to us, or to Humanware) - but maybe make sure you've got a copy of the older driver if you need to go back as well.

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Toot

Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-12 at 02:44

@NVAccess Oh, uh... they don't let you go back, just like iOS, Android, and practically everything these days which is all sorts of nonsense, but I only have it as a HID-compliant display tangentially for work, and my primary display works without issue even though there's a missing dot. I'll do a before-and-after comparison when i have a chance. @zersiax

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Descendants

Written by Florian on 2024-12-12 at 03:24

@twynn @NVAccess ahh, forgot to include you. Basically just tried hwio log, none of the keys register at all

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Written by NV Access on 2024-12-12 at 04:09

@zersiax @twynn Thanks heaps! I've asked someone else to have a look later today and we'll see if he can shed any more light on it.

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Written by Florian on 2024-12-12 at 04:10

@twynn @NVAccess So, over USB, the device still shows up as being a Humanware display and the keys work. On Bluetooth, it's Standard HID braille display and the keys do not work. related, perhaps?

I've emailed Humanware about this,as well

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Written by NV Access on 2024-12-12 at 04:16

@zersiax @twynn Thanks, this might be getting closer. Looking at our user guide, we just say: "The Brailliant BI and B series of displays from HumanWare, including the BI 14, BI 32, BI 20X, BI 40, BI 40X and B 80, are supported when connected via USB or bluetooth. If connecting via USB with the protocol set to HumanWare, you must first install the USB drivers provided by the manufacturer. USB drivers are not required if the protocol is set to OpenBraille" https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#HumanWareBrailliant

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Written by Florian on 2024-12-12 at 04:18

@NVAccess @twynn hmm, yeah, there's a "TerminalTools" file on the q40's support page which supposedly installs drivers for JAWS 2018 and up, but JAWS already works here without having this installed, and it's really Bluetooth only where NVDA currently has an issue :)

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-12 at 04:25

@zersiax @NVAccess Hmm. The release notes has two possibly relevant entries under the "Other Fixes and Improvements" heading of their release notes:

• Apple TV Support: Added compatibility.
• Braille HID Ready: Supporting the upcoming release of Android Braille HID

Source: https://support.humanware.com/Site/Files/a/06cc20404d351cbaa2520fcd0d5adc3/06771bbd1a209cae47b4e4727719ecea/Brailliant%20BI%20X%2C%20Chameleon%2020%20and%20Mantis%20Q40%20Release%20notes%20V2.4%20EN.docx

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Written by NV Access on 2024-12-12 at 05:09

@twynn @zersiax If it is using HID by default, it may be that it's HID support doesn't include support for the thumb and routing keys? Can you switch to the humanware driver for it perhaps?

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-12 at 05:34

@NVAccess @zersiax Hmm. using build 4201, the display shows up as "(Standard HID Braille Display" with Bluetooth, but thumb keys and cursor routing works fine for me with NVDa 2024.4 and Brailliant 2.4.0.build4201. See this pastebin where I have input mode on and pressed all four thumb keys and first and last routing keys:

https://pastebin.com/raw/Tsf8S2Pj

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-12 at 05:49

@NVAccess @zersiax I cannot choose "HumanWare Brailliant BI/B series / BrailleNote Touch" as the display in NVDA while using the Bluetooth connection.

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-12 at 05:55

@NVAccess @zersiax My apologies for the garbage data. I have the Brailliant BI 40X not the Mantis Q40, so obviously things would differ. Please disregard everything I said.

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Written by Florian on 2024-12-12 at 05:58

@twynn @NVAccess same. Trying to use the humanware option explicitly currently fails. If the q40 can switch braille protocols,I wouldn't know how that could be done

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Written by Jesse Wienholts on 2024-12-12 at 09:32

@zersiax @twynn @NVAccess I don’t think there’s a way to switch protocols on the Mantis. I just tested with the latest build, and I can use the display with the standard HID protocol without any issues via Bluetooth. Other drivers don’t work. I’ll keep an eye out for any other users having the same issues, but can’t replicate it yet on my side.

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Written by Florian on 2024-12-12 at 13:46

@twynn @NVAccess yeah... so humanware support US is more interested in the fact my unit's serial number is European than in actually reading my email and seeing the serial number is likely irrelevant. Oh well ...it's supposedly been forwarded to the European division, I'll report back if I ever hear back from them

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-14 at 18:50

@zersiax I'm about to submit the report myself, not for the routing and thumb keys (because I can't reproduce), but for the inconsistent keybindings between USB vs. Bluetooth. This has become a weekend activity, why? @NVAccess

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-14 at 19:19

@zersiax Report submitted. We will see what they say in result. @NVAccess, do we already have an issue in NVDA about the keybinding issue? Granted the quick reference isn't accurate anyway, e.g., Space+1+3 is not Shift+Tab but rather Home, but I can definitely submit something about the Humanware connection inconsistencies between USB and Bluetooth wit the 2.4 update as needed.

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-14 at 19:22

@zersiax @NVAccess Update. Found it:

Issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/17518

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-14 at 20:23

@zersiax @NVAccess Second update, it appears Humanware does allow for rollbacks. I rolled back, made a new paring, and upgraded but could not replicate your input key issues:

2.3 release: https://humanware.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/BrailleReader/release/2_3_0_D74E36352D278E1C966388667218908/Braille_Reader_v2.3.0_build3777.swu

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-16 at 17:39

@zersiax @NVAccess I got a response from HumanWare, and they just wrote that "[w]e have forwarded your feedback to our developers for investigation." I'm not sure if I'll get anything back from said developers, but will keep you posted.

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Written by Florian on 2024-12-16 at 18:15

@twynn @NVAccess lol my feedback got forward to their European division, because my serial number is from Europe. That quite clearly is the deciding factor here :)

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-18 at 18:09

@zersiax @NVAccess Via @simon, there's a fix out. I have not seen that posted on the Brailliant BI-X Users list hence me not knowing about it earlier.

Post: https://www.freelists.org/post/aphmantischameleonuser/Hotfix-for-Mantis

Firmware: https://humanware.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/BrailleReader/release/2_4_0_113ECB178D1FE84759759E15D438479B/Braille_Reader_v2.4.0_build4203.swu

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Written by Jesse Wienholts on 2024-12-18 at 20:08

@twynn @zersiax @NVAccess @simon If this build does not fix the issues, please let me know so I can take this back in my contact with Humanware.

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Written by Simon Jaeger on 2024-12-18 at 20:47

@jessewienholts @twynn @zersiax @NVAccess I haven't installed the problematic update yet. Should I install that first, verify that the issue is happening and then verify the fix? Or should I just install this version and test it? Is it a problem on both ghluetooth and USB?

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Written by Timothy Wynn on 2024-12-18 at 21:04

@simon I just tested and the fix works. I'd just install the new build and make sure that "HumanWare Brailliant BI/B series / BrailleNote Touch" shows up when connecting via Bluetooth rather than "Standard HID Braille Display" in NVDA's Select Braille Display dialog. I was never able to reproduce the input keys not registering, so @zersiax could probably speak better into that issue. @jessewienholts @NVAccess

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Written by Florian on 2024-12-18 at 21:06

@twynn @simon @jessewienholts @NVAccess Amusingly that issue got fixed for me when re-pairing bluetooth and resetting the display, so I'm not all that much use but I'll try the fix and see if it doesn't break stuff at the very least :)

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