Nothing new. #Communism kills, devastates and humiliates. When the #crimes of commies are made public, #communists try to silence the truth.
"The #Embassy of #Ukraine in the #Hellenic #Republic expresses its strong protest regarding the violent provocative actions committed by members of the #Communist Party of #Greece during an event organized by the #Ukrainian community in the municipality of Mandra-Eidyllia to honor the memory of the victims of the #Holodomor.
The Embassy condemns in the strongest terms the disgraceful disruption of this solemn commemoration, which is of deep historical and emotional significance to the Ukrainian people."
https://www.facebook.com/UKRinGRC/posts/ellen%CE%B7-%CF%80%CF%81%CE%B5%CF%83%CE%B2%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B1-%CE%B5%CE%BA%CF%86%CF%81%CE%AC%CE%B6%CE%B5%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%AD%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B7-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%84%CF%85%CF%81%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CE%B3%CE%B9/878097191170441 from https://news.liga.net/ua/politics/news/v-hretsii-napaly-na-ukraintsiv-iaki-vshanovuvaly-zhertv-holodomoru-postrazhdav-dyplomat-video
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@nanoelquant
[#]communism #socialism
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/
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@Radical_EgoCom and what this communist propaganda does here? Dude, I was born in a country where they tried to implement this. The results were devastating. So when I say that #communismkills, I know what I am talking about.
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@nanoelquant
Not all people who lived in Marxist-Leninist countries dislike them. Some former citizens have positive feelings about these countries.
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@Radical_EgoCom happens, however more often it is about their youth rather than the regime. And definitely no sane person misses famines, Gulag, massive repressions, iron curtain, empty shelves, propiska and other "beautiful" stuff.
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@nanoelquant
Now you're strawmanning. You say the the Soviet Union ( or whatever country you're referring to) = Gulags, famines, etc, and then claim that anyone who liked the country must be insane when those don't represent the entirety of the country, nor are those likely the reasons people like those countries.
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@Radical_EgoCom "the Soviet Union = Gulags, famines, etc"
Yes it is. Almost each of us have somebody among the relatives repressed in some way by soviet authorities.
If anybody has a sentiment to soviet times because he was young and healthy or the soviet state make him somehow to believe that he lives in a beautiful country (this is an area for psychologists and sociologists), it does not deny the reality that soviet state was a place of terror in some its period and quite an ugliness in the rest of the periods.
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@nanoelquant
Just because people experienced repression in the Soviet Union doesn't invalidate others' positive experiences in the country. It's fallacious of you to accept the negative experiences people had in the Soviet Union and completely ignore or disregard people's positive experiences, as if the negative experiences outweigh the positive experiences because they fit your narrative.
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@Radical_EgoCom It is an incorrect comparison. People could have the same or even much more positive experiences without the need to survive totalitarian terror if soviet union never existed and commies never came to power.
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@nanoelquant
This isn't about whether people could have had the same positive experiences if the Soviet Union had never existed. This about you either ignoring or not being aware of people who liked living in the Soviet Union. Just because you didn't like living there doesn't mean others didn't, and it doesn't mean life was bad for everyone.
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@Radical_EgoCom this logic can be applied to any regime ever existed. There are for sure people who liked living in Nazi Germany - is it a reason to spread "Mein Kampf" and propose to educate oneself? I don't think so. There are a lot of people happy in USA, European states, Israel, India etc. - does it mean we all must became alike? I don't think so. In Ukraine, the consensus is clear - no return to the soviet past, condemnation of the crimes and cruelties of the soviet regime and trying to overcome the soviet legacy in laws, way of living and style of thinking. If you want to find Ukrainians who like to rebuild USSR - feel free, but find a place far away from us all.
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@nanoelquant
You pointing out that my logic can be applied to other scenarios doesn't refute my argument. My point still stands: just because you had negative experiences in the Soviet Union doesn't mean life was bad for everyone or that there weren't legitimate reasons why people liked living there. Anecdotal experiences don't speak for everyone, just you.
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@Radical_EgoCom I think you need to educate yourself about real history of soviet crimes before writing some nonsence about "anecdotal evidences".
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@nanoelquant
I said, "Anecdotal experiences don't speak for everyone, just you." That isn't nonsense. That's a fact.
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@Radical_EgoCom you are trying to persuade somebody that my opinion or even experience of my family in USSR is anecdotal. I try to explain that such experience is overwhelmingly common in ex ussr. You try to oppose by citing some anecdotal examples of people who have warm memories about their life in the soviet times. And continue to post Lenin's propaganda writings in English translation. If it is everything you can do in your desperate tryout to explain that black is white, I think we are done here.
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@nanoelquant
Your experiences are anecdotal by definition. All evidence based on personal experience is anecdotal. That's what "anecdotal" means. If you want to argue that your personal experiences are commonly shared by most former Soviet Union citizens, then that would no longer be anecdotal evidence, that would be statistics, and you would also have to provide statistical evidence to prove your claim.
Also, the website that contains the book by Lenin I sent you has Russian translations.
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@Radical_EgoCom if you are really interested in the topic, the good place to start would be the decision of #Kyiv Court of Appeal in the criminal case upon the fact of the crime of #genocide committed in #Ukraine during the years 1932-1933: https://holodomormuseum.org.ua/en/resolution-of-the-court/
It is translated into English and analyses quite thoroughly the "legal" base (decisions of #soviet authorities), statistical data, eyewitness' testimonies etc.
Part of the documents are also published there, eventually translated, part can be found elsewhere, like the infamous "Decree 7-8" or "Five spikelets Act" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Spikelets
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@nanoelquant
Why did you send me a link to information about a court case about the 1932-33 Ukrainian famine? This isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about whether your negative experiences regarding the Soviet Union are the common concensus among other former citizens, not about the famine in Ukraine in 1932-33.
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@Radical_EgoCom We are talking about #crimes of #communists, which modern communists try to silence. About this was my initial post. The man-made #famine in #Ukraine killing millions of people was a notorious example of such crimes committed by the #soviet authorities of the #USSR (to which that part of Ukraine belonged in the time of question), constructed following the ideas written in the works of #Lenin you are so intensively distributing. And it is only one on the list. I don't know which kind of happy experience of some ex-citizens should "statistically" overwhelm this.
In Ukraine, the totalitarian soviet regime is condemned by a law adopted by freely elected parlament, and I am not aware about any non-marginal group of citizens questioning this decision as of now. https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/317-19#Text
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@nanoelquant
This link you sent me isn't sufficient in proving that even Ukrainians are against the Soviet Union. How could we know what they think regarding the Soviet Union? According to the article, any support or promotion of anything relating to the Soviet Union or communism in general is illegal. People not showing opposition to this law is to be expected since if they showed any opposition to it, they'd likely face legal repercussions.
[#]communism #socialism #politicalrepression
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@Radical_EgoCom Even if you believe that freedom of speech in that regard was somehow impaired after 2015, there is a large time frame from 1991 till 2015 when there were no obstacles at all. However, the popularity of the communist party of Ukraine gradually faded during this period of time [ Wiki: Communist_Party_of_Ukraine ] (which, as of me, is quite consistent with a long-time process of deconstruction of soviet lifestyle and getting people more used to life in a normal non-communist world), and the mentioned law was passed after the party lost their parliament status and became completely marginalized.
In general, I think the information I have provided till now is enough to claim that there is a strong opposition versus the communism rule and ideology in the modern Ukraine (results of scientific searches followed by legal investigations, election results, legal recognition). If you have any other opinions in that regard, try to find and provide any direct evidences in favor of your position rather than endlessly question mine.
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@nanoelquant
I'm glad I'm not living in Ukraine, or else I'd go to jail for sharing this amazing book with you. (You can translate the text to any language you want on the website by pressing the three dot icon in the corner and pressing "translate.")
[#]communism #socialism
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/
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@Radical_EgoCom " Written: August - September, 1917" you are not providing any evidences in support of your claims.
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text/gemini