Ancestors

Written by Technology Connections on 2024-11-07 at 02:07

In re: some conversations I've had in other places (real and online)

A lot of people in leftist circles seem to begin conversations on step 8 and are surprised when the person they're talking to isn't receptive.

Ya gotta start on step 1.

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Written by Technology Connections on 2024-11-07 at 02:11

There's a whole host of good people out there who - believe it or not! - are still using cold war vocabulary. They have not read the theory and whipping out "capitalism bad" freaks them the fuck out.

They usually want the same thing as you do, but it's your job to help them see it. And it starts with meeting them where they're at. Step 1.

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Written by Bob Collins on 2024-11-07 at 02:19

@TechConnectify

I'm waiting. Unless you are redefining terms, "capitalism bad," is just ignorant.

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Written by Technology Connections on 2024-11-07 at 02:25

@BobCollins so, to answer earnestly, what people mean when they say that is usually "power structures which form through unchecked greed and hoarding of wealth" but instead they just say capitalism.

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Written by Bob Collins on 2024-11-07 at 02:35

@TechConnectify

OK, my observation that meets that is "unregulated capitalism is bad." In fact, Adam Smith considered regulation necessary.

The problem with saying all "capitalism is bad," flies in the face of actual history.

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Written by Technology Connections on 2024-11-07 at 02:40

@BobCollins just so you understand, this is not the argument that I'm having right now.

Leftist discourse generally just uses the word capitalism to mean unfettered, unchecked capitalism. They tend to skip a lot of steps... which is kind of my point.

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Written by Truth Sandwich 🇺🇸😱💀 on 2024-11-07 at 03:10

@TechConnectify @BobCollins

Solution: If you mean unregulated capitalism, say unregulated capitalism. Otherwise, people will think you mean capitalism when you say capitalism.

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Written by Technology Connections on 2024-11-07 at 03:14

@TruthSandwich @BobCollins have you not yet run into someone who believes wholeheartedly that capitalism inevitably becomes unchecked?

That's a sincere question. That belief is what allows reduction to "capitalism bad"

I personally don't think framing the conversation around "capitalism" is helpful at all: I'd much rather see discussion on specific aspects of it and thus specific actions to take. But that conversation doesn't happen. It's what I'm trying to encourage, though.

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Toot

Written by prokyonid on 2024-11-07 at 11:47

@TechConnectify

As a leftist that literally defines their position just as 'anticapitalist' even I know that you can't get people to support a position simply by telling them they should oppose its opposite.

Too many leftists aren't willing to put in the effort and instead take the losing position of "it's not [their] job to educate," but nobody can be convinced without knowing why or what they should do instead.

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Descendants