Ancestors

Toot

Written by Scott Jehl on 2024-10-17 at 14:58

The more I tune into JS framework discussions the more I’m concerned at how few developers seem to be concerned with how their work is actually delivered. Browsers are optimized to receive websites as HTML first, yet frameworks taught a generation of developers to build blogs like they are executable files to load & boot. I was asked twice this week if I think server components are a good idea (?). Yes! Create react app was a poor fit for most sites. Stop building the Web like it’s an App Store.

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Descendants

Written by Scott Jehl on 2024-10-17 at 15:07

Think I'll post this on the bad site since that's where the audience who needs to hear this is.

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Written by Simon Willison on 2024-10-17 at 15:09

@scottjehl at this pint we've trained a full generation of web developers who genuinely don't know how to implement a form that works without JavaScript

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Written by Carter Baxter on 2024-10-17 at 15:21

@simon @scottjehl Please don't change "pint" to "point" because this fact makes me want to drink a pint.

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Written by Scott Jehl on 2024-10-17 at 15:25

@tbaxter @simon I'll have whatever Simon's having :cheers:

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Written by Leo Tsementzis on 2024-10-17 at 16:22

@simon @scottjehl

My impression is that we're coming full circle, with more developers shifting away from bulky frameworks towards basic HTML, JS, or lighter frameworks like htmx - I'm optimistic!

I remember when including "React" in a job description made a role instantly more attractive. That will likely start having the opposite effect, as people no longer want to deal with all this complexity but there’s a generation of sites built with create-react-app that will still need maintenance.

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Written by Rich Holman on 2024-10-17 at 16:21

@scottjehl yes to this.

Managed to mostly avoid JS frameworks through shear stubbornness and lack of use case.

But recently had to dip my toe in because WordPress editor. Even the default scaffolding create thing has a view.js file for the front end. Even though you can define a php file in block.json and access all the props via $attributes. No way was I going to render the FE via JS/React but that’s out of the box.

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Written by Matteo Fogli on 2024-10-17 at 17:23

@scottjehl it pains me that most developers don’t even know how the browser works, or the basics of HTTP. Generalizing based on few examples is wrong, yet I keep finding professional Web Developers that ignore or have incredibly rudimentary knowledge about this.

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