Learning that today's massive Mastodon spam attack was carried out by conspiracy-addled Japanese middle-schoolers whose previous spam run was shut down when admins got in touch with their parents who confiscated their devices is definitely straight of the Shitty Timeline Little Brother.
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@pluralistic@mamot.fr a detail maybe, but is it really an attack if creating an account is open to anyone without any reviewing process?
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@setto @pluralistic is it still malice for someone to destroy my garden if I don’t put up a fence?
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@calcifer @setto @pluralistic if they had malice yes.
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@kusuriya @setto @pluralistic genau. So if someone conducts a spam attack, it’s still an attack if the intent was to spam everyone (instead of, say, an accident). It has nothing to do with what controls were in place.
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@calcifer @setto @pluralistic thats always been my view. an attack is an attack if its intent was meant to be an attack.
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@kusuriya@hackers.town @calcifer@hackers.town @pluralistic@mamot.fr
Fair points. I guess what i'm trying to convey is that i think enormous freebeer-for-all instances are a danger. Because at that scale, moderation becomes a full time large-team job and can only be applied post mortem.
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@setto @pluralistic @calcifer To some degree moderation can only be reactionary. We probably as a group of communities need to take pages from the books of operations engineers or cybersecurity groups. It would probably look something like you will always have an incident response team that is acting against threats we know, A larger team acting against threats we know exist but we don't know who they are yet, and a team that is looking for threats that we haven't even thought about.
Once we manage what we know, what we know we don't know, and what we don't know we don't know only then can we build proactive defense to help lighten the burden of reactionary defense.
But I'm rambling
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@kusuriya@hackers.town
I think you make sense. And i agree in many ways. Especially in terms of conflict resolution. But preventing spam attacks on fedi i actually pretty easy: put in place a vetting protocole for new registrants.
To quote myself from another part of this thread, it's a tough one. On one hand it is nice that the network is accessible to the masses and remains an affordable alternative. On the other hand, i find myself wishing the appeal of the network would be more centered around cooperation and mutual aid in running services, and less around being a quick fix for the corporate social media catastrophe.
@pluralistic@mamot.fr @calcifer@hackers.town
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@setto @pluralistic @calcifer Yes and that sort of falls into the known unknowns bucket. We could probably do the same thing that old style community forums did. You have a probationary period, that probationary period stops you from posting to other instances until your local community gets to know you. Maybe if you have 0 posts or interactions within the probationary period your account gets auto-binned, and maybe the promotion process is non automated.
There is a lot that could be done in the space if we stop thinking about the fedi being the replacement to social media and think of it more as groups of communities coming together.
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@kusuriya@hackers.town
:metathis:
thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and bouncing ideas with me. I realize my initial response to OP wasn't conveying my idea very well, but i received some pretty visceral reactions, which your eloquence is slowly making me forget :cyber_heart_sparkle_purple:
@pluralistic@mamot.fr @calcifer@hackers.town
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@setto @pluralistic @calcifer Thank you. I always fear people forget that on the other end of the screen is a person, and I always try to remember that because it clues me into things like maybe this isn't their first language. Maybe they don't have words for what they are trying to communicate yet. Maybe they just have a really vague idea and are hoping someone with another part of their vague idea will bring crayons over and help color it in.
Using that has always kept me centered and helped me find new ideas.
Its also a great way to find sneaky nazi shit heels and ban their recruiting instances.
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