Ancestors

Toot

Written by GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-19 at 20:22

I got a new job. whatsapp group (20 people) is migrating to signal because I don't use it.

https://lemmy.ml/post/19346970

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml

Descendants

Written by krolden on 2024-08-19 at 20:24

Now tell them you just switched to matrix and see if they’ll follow

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from krolden@lemmy.ml

Written by GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-19 at 20:26

Never abuse kind people. That’s what breaks them.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml

Written by krolden on 2024-08-19 at 22:09

Its a joke if that wasn’t obvious.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from krolden@lemmy.ml

Written by GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-19 at 20:29

I don’t have to. Matrix is coming anyway. It’s not an if but a when.

For official (internal) company communication though I will advertise matrix instead of signal. I’ll report back once I’ve talked to the right people about it.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml

Written by krolden on 2024-08-19 at 22:10

Nice

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from krolden@lemmy.ml

Written by Possibly linux on 2024-08-19 at 22:13

Matrix can be pretty unstable at times

I like Mattermost but it isn’t federated

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip

Written by asudox on 2024-08-19 at 20:34

Surprised that happened. Very rare to see that these days.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Asudox@lemmy.world

Written by driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br on 2024-08-19 at 20:40

Maybe OP works on infosec and the team was like yeah, makes sense?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br

Written by GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-19 at 20:46

Let’s say I work in an IT area (but not infosec)

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml

Written by LazaroFilm on 2024-08-19 at 20:53

Should have used Matrix

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from LazaroFilm@lemmy.world

Written by Pasta Dental on 2024-08-19 at 21:15

For a team of 20 people matrix is way overkill imo

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from independantiste@sh.itjust.works

Written by The Quuuuuill on 2024-08-19 at 21:21

XMPP on the other hand…

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Quill7513@slrpnk.net

Written by LazaroFilm on 2024-08-19 at 21:31

Then what about an irc?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from LazaroFilm@lemmy.world

Written by LazaroFilm on 2024-08-19 at 21:32

There would be room for expansion. What about an IRC then?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from LazaroFilm@lemmy.world

Written by toastal@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-20 at 11:39

Depends. Since this is seen as an out-of-band coms option for work, there is a good chance you will want encryption for only folks in the room either for accidental company secrets leaked or to shit talk folks outside the room. IRC, the best you get is TLS.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from toastal@lemmy.ml

Written by mizuki@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 2024-08-21 at 17:45

I once setup a entire matrix server for my school club that comprised of 4 people because one of our members couldn’t use discord lol

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from mizuki@lemmy.blahaj.zone

Written by TCB13@lemmy.world on 2024-08-19 at 21:45

No, Matrix isn’t the best in terms of privacy. It is a metadata disaster and most other platform are a lot more performant.

Matrix’s E2EE does not, however, encrypt everything. The following information is not encrypted: Message senders, Session/device IDs, Message timestamps, Room members (join/leave/invite events), Message edit events, Message reactions, Read receipts, Nicknames, Profile pictures

Matrix is developed by a for profit entity, a group of venture capitalists and having a spec doesn’t mean everything. The way Matrix is designed is to force into jumping through hoops and kind of draw all attention to Matrix itself instead of the end result.

XMPP is the true and the OG federated and truly open solution that is very extensible. XMPP is tested, reliable, secure and above all a truly open standard and decentralized it just lacks some investment in better mobile clients.

What most fail to see is that XMPP is the only solution that treats messaging and video like email: just provide an address and the servers and clients will cooperate with each other in order to maintain a conversation. Everything else is just an attempt at yet another vendor lock-in.

People need to get this through their heads, XMPP is the only solution for their problems.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TCB13@lemmy.world

Written by asudox on 2024-08-19 at 21:48

XMPP is great but it’s dead.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from AsudoxDev@programming.dev

Written by TCB13@lemmy.world on 2024-08-19 at 21:50

It is as dead as we want. There’s no reason to reinvent the wheel, probably the only thing that XMPP lacks is a bunch of money into a very good, cross-platform (but native) client like Telegram has that actually works 100% of the time and a bunch of large scale public servers to handle regular users who don’t want to host their own. Also… easy registrations and setup on said client.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TCB13@lemmy.world

Written by asudox on 2024-08-19 at 22:01

I’m pretty sure an encrypted chat platform is possible with ActivityPub.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from AsudoxDev@programming.dev

Written by TCB13@lemmy.world on 2024-08-19 at 22:04

Why reinvent the wheel, tweak a protocol, implement a ton of software when you can just use the tested, tried and true XMPP?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TCB13@lemmy.world

Written by Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee on 2024-08-19 at 23:12

Does XMPP support voice/video calls?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee

Written by curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 2024-08-19 at 23:29

Yes, Jingle.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com

Written by SLfgb@feddit.nl on 2024-08-20 at 06:31

Yes, very well.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from SLfgb@feddit.nl

Written by TCB13@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 08:37

Yes…

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TCB13@lemmy.world

Written by umami_wasabi on 2024-08-19 at 23:51

XMPP isn’t any better in terms of metadata. OMEMO is an afterthought that slaps on to XMPP. Many metadata are still attached to the message. The threat model only protects the content and doesn’t guard aginst metadata and traffic analysis. Even OMEMO extension is still in experimental status. Not to mention, users still need to signup an account using their email.

Honestly, I think SimpleX is better in everyway. No account required, minimal metadata (at least from the technical whitepaper and other sources I read), fully open source (AGPLv3), and audited. The register friction is almost non existance. You just need to install, set a name, and off you go. The only worry I have with them is they took VC funds.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from umami_wasbi@lemmy.ml

Written by mox on 2024-08-20 at 02:47

I think SimpleX is better in everyway.

A few SimpleX shortcomings beyond what you noted, in no particular order:

It does have some neat design ideas. I don’t consider it ready for general use, but I look forward to seeing how it develops.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from mox@lemmy.sdf.org

Written by ᗪᗩᗰᑎ on 2024-08-20 at 04:51

agree with your general sentiment. I’ve actually been using it and its very rough around the edges, in addition to being “slow” feeling overall, and I’m just testing it out between one other person and myself on other devices. it’s not something I can recommend to anyone yet, but definitely keeping my eye on it.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from KLISHDFSDF@lemmy.ml

Written by TCB13@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 08:43

XMPP is way more open and interoperable than all the solutions available, it works like email any user can can talk to any other and doesn’t depend on a some proprietary / closed service centrally owned by anyone. That’s a good selling point.

XMPP doesn’t really force users to sign up with email address, it just happens that XMPP addresses use the same format, many public servers will give you an address like username@server.example.org that is never mapped to a real email address and only works for XMPP. The decision to actually ask people for their real addresses is up to who owns the server and won’t be directly exposed on the XMPP network.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TCB13@lemmy.world

Written by krolden on 2024-08-20 at 00:09

Omemo sucks

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from krolden@lemmy.ml

Written by mox on 2024-08-20 at 00:19

People need to get this through their heads, XMPP is the only solution for their problems.

On the contrary, you need to understand that your own needs and priorities do not match everyone else’s, and that XMPP is not a good fit for every use case.

(Your rant was amusing, though. I hadn’t seen one like that in a couple weeks.)

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from mox@lemmy.sdf.org

Written by TCB13@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 08:39

While I agree with your point just tell me what Matrix does better? It’s better at being overly complicated? Or at being more propriety?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from TCB13@lemmy.world

Written by mox on 2024-08-20 at 15:42

Nobody owes you their time or their patience. If you want help understanding something, I suggest you tone down the fearmongering, manipulative, adversarial comments. If you’re just looking for a fight, kindly go elsewhere.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from mox@lemmy.sdf.org

Written by Possibly linux on 2024-08-19 at 22:11

Not great

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip

Written by delirious_owl@discuss.online on 2024-08-20 at 03:25

I’m going to join OP’s company next and say I can’t use signal because phone companies. Then they’ll upgrade to Wire or Matrix

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from delirious_owl@discuss.online

Written by asudox on 2024-08-19 at 20:47

They only realized that when he asked? What a weird infosec team.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Asudox@lemmy.world

Written by driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br on 2024-08-20 at 04:27

I think you’re over estimating people who works in infosec. All the people I know that work in infosec in corporations are just regular windows support people assigned to keep the security updates on day.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br

Written by GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-19 at 20:41

There may have been discussions around it beforehand. I didn’t ask why it went so smooth.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml

Written by Possibly linux on 2024-08-19 at 22:11

What you didn’t realize is that your value to the company is way more than you realized.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip

Written by dustyData@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 00:50

Often times people have resolved all the rational arguments to act on a decision but lack on an emotional excuse to figuratively pull the trigger. I’d bet on someone high up had already made if their mind and you not using WhatsApp was the perfect excuse to just have the whole team finally migrate.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from dustyData@lemmy.world

Written by Today@lemmy.world on 2024-08-19 at 20:35

I wish my family was that easy to change, and there are only five of us.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Today@lemmy.world

Written by MerchantsOfMisery@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-19 at 21:12

Before Signal made the boneheaded move of removing SMS support, it was so much easier for me to pitch the idea of using Signal to my friends and family, most of which eventually did make the shift from SMS to Signal messages for reasons like ease of use when it came to group chats, sending images/videos, voice clips, etc.

But now? Now it’s one of those embarrassing moments where I hear back from people basically all saying "your tech recommendations are usually on point but uh, what happened with Signal???" because the app just abruptly stopped supporting SMS and ruined the seamless appeal. SMS support was the perfect way to ease people into shifting towards Signal messages and now the only damn people I know who still know Signal are my most privacy-minded friends/family, while everyone else has switched back to WhatsApp.

Clearly I’m not bitter…😅

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from MerchantsOfMisery@lemmy.ml

Written by BaroqueInMind@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-19 at 21:18

Why did they remove SMS support?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from BaroqueInMind@lemmy.ml

Written by ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world on 2024-08-19 at 21:25

Think it was related to the messages being insecure and signal didn’t want people to be confused.

If your using signal your messages should be secure. SMS messages aren’t secure. It may have been clear to you when Signal send an sms or an encrypted message, but they need to cater to everyone.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world

Written by explodicle@sh.itjust.works on 2024-08-20 at 00:33

I guess what I want now is a client for both protocols that works like the old app. That would cater to me - I don’t remember which person is on which app so I keep ending up on SMS because it has everyone.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from explodicle@sh.itjust.works

Written by Crashumbc@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 13:57

Yup

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Crashumbc@lemmy.world

Written by doctortran@lemm.ee on 2024-08-20 at 01:29

That just feels like shooting themselves in the foot. Just inform the user SMS isn’t secure. That’s it.

Not being willing to trust the user with the information so they can make a choice is asinine. It’s the same reason why I stopped using Tuta. Complete privacy and security are great but if there’s no option to make things a little more open for the sake of convenience or interconnectivity, I’m just not interested.

Security and privacy shouldn’t be a prison.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from doctortran@lemm.ee

Written by ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 17:51

You can’t target UX to the average person. It won’t work for most people. You need to target those that struggle with technology the most to make it accessible.

Signals main unique selling point is its security, not its ease of use. If people fall into useing signal in a insecure way, it can be hard to say signal is a secure messaging app. As many people may be using it insecurely.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world

Written by BearOfaTime@lemm.ee on 2024-08-20 at 02:03

Which is a BS argument because the app was VERY clear about it

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from BearOfaTime@lemm.ee

Written by Luke on 2024-08-20 at 09:50

I think you underestimate how oblivious many users are when it comes to using software.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from lukecooperatus@lemmy.ml

Written by toastal@lemmy.ml on 2024-08-20 at 11:46

Honestly that was the initial appeal. Grandma didn’t notice or care that the old SMS app was hidden & just thought there was an update. That ignorance meant she was talking in an encrypted fashion where possible even if accidentally. And since you will need a SMS app anyhow for OTP & other one-off notifications, might as well have it all in one spot. The fact it is different is probably more confusing to some users.

And without that appeal, the missing server code history, the US government funding, centralized service, the requirement of a SIM card (which many places now require ID to get so they can register you in a database), as well as the requirement of bowing to the mobile duopoly (can’t use the service if you have a KaiOS, Linux, or other phone—or without a phone), I don’t know there is much of an appeal. In hindsight, I wish I hadn’t gotten my family on it since I would love to ditch Android.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from toastal@lemmy.ml

Written by CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 02:08

www.howtogeek.com/787957/why-sms-needs-to-die/

SMS is bad, and on the way out. Besides that, I barely noticed when Signal stopped allowing SMS.

I guess in some circles it matters, but seems like most people use messengers nowadays.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world

Written by Crashumbc@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 14:01

Bad? Yes, on the way out? Maybe(mostly gone outside the US), but it’s really slow here in older less tech savvy demographics.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Crashumbc@lemmy.world

Written by sovietknuckles [they/them] on 2024-08-20 at 15:36

They expected to get a marginal number of additional users from vendor lock-in of existing Signal users

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from sovietknuckles@hexbear.net

Written by Possibly linux on 2024-08-19 at 22:10

What were you using SMS for?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip

Written by Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 2024-08-19 at 22:37

SMS is still the dominant message format in some countries

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone

Written by Possibly linux on 2024-08-19 at 23:07

But you are already on Signal.

Also I live Inna country where SMS is very common

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip

Written by naught101@lemmy.world on 2024-08-19 at 23:20

Doesn’t every phone have an SMS app? What’s the benefit of having SMS in signal?

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from naught101@lemmy.world

Written by ohwhatfollyisman@lemmy.world on 2024-08-20 at 00:29

the core benefit was in adoption. it was easy to get parents, for example, saying that they jist have to bother with one app for all of their messaging.

the minute they have to contend with sms and signal, they don’t mind adding whatsapp in the mix as well.

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from ohwhatfollyisman@lemmy.world

Written by akilou@sh.itjust.works on 2024-08-20 at 01:58

Conversely, they do mind having multiple apps and only send sms

=> More informations about this toot | More toots from akilou@sh.itjust.works

Proxy Information
Original URL
gemini://mastogem.picasoft.net/thread/112990550438937746
Status Code
Success (20)
Meta
text/gemini
Capsule Response Time
657.137911 milliseconds
Gemini-to-HTML Time
24.628854 milliseconds

This content has been proxied by September (ba2dc).