@ItsThatDeafGuy @GrapheneOS Yeah. Goog-ish Pixels only. They do explain: don't have the people or resources to work out multiple forms of hardware. Which is a giant shame, but not really their fault.
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@quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
We already support every device meeting our hardware security and other requirements listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices. There isn't another device we could support yet.
We'll be adding support for the 9th generation Pixels shortly after they're available and the code is published, which should be in under a week. They're available for preorder now.
We're fully capable of supporting more devices, but we won't support devices where we can't provide reasonable security.
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@GrapheneOS @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy Quite high requirements !
Old phones losing out... which is a huge loss in recycling and retro-market installs... Smart phone still around from 10 years ago so still re-installable so I'd always be thinking about that as additional retro-economy or retro-justice for what was google only back then.
(I'm new to #GrapheneOS so correct me please if assumptions wrong or impossible for cut down version as we see of #retro Windows etc running on mini USB stick or systems with 32mb/64mb of ram!)
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
It doesn't make sense for a hardened OS to support highly insecure devices without basic firmware updates and security features. The purpose of GrapheneOS is not supporting old insecure devices but rather providing people with great privacy and secure. Even non-Pixel, non-iPhone, non-Galaxy devices from 3 years ago mostly lack ongoing security updates and you do not solve that switching to an alternate OS. Those devices were also not secure on day one...
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@GrapheneOS @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
Ok great reply and agree....
And at the same time I don't buy into it (...if it's really possible to have something better) on a lot of level listed below. You might have same counter points:
❌ The whole idea that "new" is better I don't buy into or that "support" is somehow better... YES maybe was true but now "they know" or are doing the bad work increasingly by design themselves more often in more thigns... and faster than we patch... so maybe still a case for it but by design means at hardware / legislation or other levels we simply cannot reach easily or change. So at some point, let's say Window 11 style "they thought of that" and it's either turn on or off mostly as ultimatum. I admit this is a bit of a theoretical thing but just as insecure as trusting ANYTHING "NEW" from GOOGLE in it's newest PIXEL etc - just seems crazy to trust that to start. Wouldn't be surprise one day literally finding some really unknown stuff in "new" more than "insecure / patched / limited" old - 5 years Old might be best of 2 bad things... New is like "I'm sure they are going to add more bells and whistles leaking at hardware level"
❌ "Security updates" I'm not sure of these phrases and wonder if it's dogma sometimes - why because developers MIGHT just say that without being able to say why - for example why on Android 4 their app was secure but not Android 6 only (or any number...). Developers force the latest for same app essentially because ??? well maybe they were told or think numbers means it's better (probably some minor things) but the fact they don't know for their app is basically the flaw in mentality.
Similar to do whatever update on Windows / Google / Microsoft /
or even you without saying "this flaw / back door" why for old phone is worrying / lacking skill and just feeds "latest is greatest mentality" (...or so it seems I'm not accusing you).
Seems no developer could tell me why their app couldn't work 1 version less yesterday when they restrict it few day later and since my old phone couldn't go up 1 version for example).
1 developer actually downgraded requirement so I know it's possible and fair play to that. I know it may not apply to this OS but it's a pretty popular mentality I think even at the top is tempting to roll with and 100's of people complain for upgrading even good things as it breaks or is unneeded for them.
☑️ "Nothing is secure" made by them I accept, which is why I look to old stuff (with new OS or work arounds) because you can't change the hardware remotely but the new is / will be just too clever, try as you might
❌ and $500 dollar new phones and whole funding of that is terrible economy I think and self-defeating (price maybe wrong so any new price probably is same).
I should say I was thinking of an old Galaxy phone when I was excited to try this OS because I've found few models actually perfect / sturdy and like "Nokia" back in the day with removable battery, extremely low power and basic features / barely HD / less bloat-encouraging etc).
😃 Just saying "Google Pixel" and security makes me smile every time! Doesn't that occur to you too as paradox or simply not to encourage buying / funding them to the same things for future ? ❓
Thanks overall...
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
If you want to use old devices with serious known vulnerabilities which aren't patched and therefore which are easily exploited by apps or remote attackers, that's your prerogative. The purpose of GrapheneOS is providing people with a high level of privacy and security. It's not possible to have a reasonably secure OS without secure hardware and firmware underneath including updates. GrapheneOS heavily uses hardware security features for security too.
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
We define clear hardware requirements in https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices. Which parts of this list do you think shouldn't be on list?
The currently launching device generation (Pixel 9) and the previous one have 7 years of support from launch. The prior 2 generations had 5 years of support from launch. This means lots of cheap used devices are available with years of remaining support.
If you're fine with a highly insecure device, GrapheneOS isn't aimed at you.
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
Only the latest stable release of Android receives full privacy and security patches. Android 12, 13 and 14 receive backports of High and Critical severity patches.
Separately from those, a major portion of the overall required security patches are for firmware and drivers, requiring ongoing support for those.
If you aren't on a device that's receiving these patches then you don't even have the bare minimum basics needed for decent privacy and security.
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
Nearly every aftermarket Android OS including LineageOS massively rolls back security compared to the Android Open Source Project by disabling parts of the security model and shipping patches much later. They also mislead users into believing they're getting all these patches on end-of-life devices when they're not actually providing them. Better off simply using an iPhone that's still getting the latest OS updates than one of these OSes on any device.
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@GrapheneOS @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy Ok that's getting nearer in some way how another aftermarket OS people is doing things like sending insecure phones on shipping or updating it only later (but if not intercepted and updating the OS as one of the first things then seems to get the best versions as the method - though not ideal / would need double checking)
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy No, that's not how it works.
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@GrapheneOS @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
The Galaxy S4 would be perfect - I see it's on the old and no longer supported list though. That actually has removable battery (and low power / ultra-power saving mode I think..)
But ok I see what you're aiming for and the level of security as you have it needs newer rather than ever settling for "as best as the hardware can do" (I mean why not almost - more users on you OS and better than Googled stuff I assume right?)
So I think some of my points were replied. And this is probably more for those that are were ok buying into Google branded phones ni the first place, maybe for it's gimmicks as well as privacy (so I do question which one first even if I can't say on behalf of others!).
Thanks for info. Overall perhaps as someone else's job / role in life I'd ideally like to know HOW each old phone is insecure or why not for developers but this is different scope so I'm not asking you for anything much any longer here.
People with old will just have to consider de-installing / manual apks / modded stuff or simply reducing bad stuff for old phone accepting they would never want to change what works / buy new or have something saying google on it - however much for that user the balance is tipped towards high level security instead of say medium in all things considered waiting for things to really break first... of course all while using minimally like Airplane mode etc / switching off as best security...
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
Galaxy S4 is a highly insecure device without firmware or driver security updates. It doesn't meet even extremely basic security standards for 2024 and is nearly entirely missing the security requirements. There's hardly anything on our list of security requirements that's provided by it.
https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices
If you're using that kind of device, you do not have even basic privacy or security... It does not any advanced exploit to compromise.
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
GrapheneOS is absolutely not going to support ridiculously insecure devices unable to support even basic privacy and security. The purpose of GrapheneOS is not giving people a highly insecure device which makes them feel they're safe and therefore harms them. If you want to be mislead by highly insecure operating systems which mislead their users with inaccurate security claims, there are plenty available already. That's near every aftermarket mobile OS.
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@GrapheneOS @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
Fair play.
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
You're ignoring what we're writing and aren't reading our list of hardware requirements.
There's nothing medium tier security about using such ridiculously insecure/outdated hardware/firmware/software. You do not have basic security on a device vulnerable to a massive number of known exploits and lacks a decade of privacy/security improvements.
You aren't part of the target audience for GrapheneOS if you care that little about your privacy/security.
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@freeschool @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
Using a Galaxy S4 in 2024 is the complete opposite direction as someone that's choosing to use GrapheneOS instead of a mainstream phone.
You're comparing rolling around in a dumpster of used needles at a safe injection site to taking measures to protect yourself beyond what regular people do.
Our extended support releases are a temporary measure for devices predating 5+ year support. They're not official GrapheneOS, are insecure and should not be used.
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@GrapheneOS @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy
Agree - please consider this replied. I'm just learning and said early on that I'm new to this before. I appreciate as best I can the detail needed for these things but yes some is my head too for now as introduction to it.
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@freeschool @GrapheneOS @quixote @ItsThatDeafGuy What about DivestOS?
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