Having brunch in Portreo Hill this morning and confronted with some casual blatant sexism. Two dudes, dude1 talking about his company / startup:
D1: yeah, we just hired $female-presenting-name, and
D2: makes negative cringe noise, [mumble, unintelligible]
D1: no, it’s great but it’s because she’s just like a dude….
She’s fitting in so well, but it’s only because she’s just like one of the boys.
Like the other night she was in the office until 9 or so, even after $male-presenting-name.
D2: oh?
D1: But like the only reason she was there so late was that here boyfriend was busy.
I shouldn’t be surprised. I live in SF and tech is gonna tech. But I want to believe it’s going to get better for the next generation, but I have little to no faith in that. D1 was maybe 30. Other guy was maybe 32-33 at most. This mentality is still entrenched in tech and being perpetuated. They’re out here saying it will their full chest over eggs benny on a Sunday.
It’s just fucking depressing.
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@amy Ugh, so many layers of toxicity in that convo. Personally heard this and worse a hundred times before and it's always instantly rage-inducing. (And I'm a chill person in most situations.)
I hate it even more when it's out in the open like this. The only benefit: it's a quick way to identify and avoid toxic groups.
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@AlesandroOrtiz yeah, unfortunately I’ve dealt first hand with this type of sexism more times than I can even recall, both overtly and covertly.
While these guys said the quiet part out loud at a friendly brunch, who knows how they are behaving in their respective companies. It’s clear their hiring practices are influed by a very narrow and excluding definition of “culture fit,” but they may be making that harder to spot for prospect employees like the woman in question. Does she know how they view her? What happens when she is less “easy going” and calls out toxic behavior? It’s just a start of a prospective long road for her.
But while the conversation wasn’t surprising, what was also depressing is that it made me reconcile (on a Sunday over brunch celebrating a friend’s birthday) with the knowledge that while time keeps on ticking on new little companies are still being founded and grown with this mindset and culture.
And this was about sexism, so that isn’t even taking into account the rampant racism and homophobia and ableism that already also exist in tech.
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@amy I'm adding more to the pile of despair with this reply, sorry. :/
Same thoughts re: employee. I feel sick thinking about what they will go through at that company (and other similar places).
Doesn't help that tech is growing the most in areas with highly toxic cultures. So we're accelerating in the wrong direction. And early toxic cultures in companies and teams rarely change as they grow. 😢 The perpetuation of this culture is what gives me the most despair.
I'm convinced it's going to take a long time (if ever) for the industry to get significantly better. It's a large reason why I prefer to be self-employed. Even then, difficult to avoid toxicity in other settings (especially online).
Sorry you had to think about this during a weekend brunch. Hope your week is better.
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@AlesandroOrtiz heavy +1 to all that.
And thank you.
It’s at least good to air these things out of one’s brain and get perspective. We didn’t want to give it much attention at brunch, lest sour the mood, so talking about here has definitely lightened the load some.
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@amy Agreed, talking helps one remember we're not alone in these experiences, and not alone in wanting to uplift others + improve the status quo.
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