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● 04.01.09

●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 31st, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:12 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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balzacM$ should be getting “red-lined”Mar 31 00:00balzacUntil Bill Gates cries uncle and just admits, RMS is the un-disputed heavyweight of softwareMar 31 00:01balzacBill Gates should admit that GNU rocks, copyleft is more clever than anything he’s done, and he’s been full of crap all these years.Mar 31 00:02balzacthat could save his shareholders a lot of grief if he were to stop clinging to his archaic software licenses and narrow-minded philosophyMar 31 00:03schestowitzI want to see what Kroes saysMar 31 00:03schestowitzProbably nothingMar 31 00:03schestowitzThe EC commission got schmoozedMar 31 00:03schestowitzAnother thing MS took from the insideMar 31 00:03schestowitz‘Took’ = ‘bought’Mar 31 00:03schestowitzHere you have Microsoft abusing a European company with invalid  patentsMar 31 00:04schestowitzIt’s abusing its position also and FAT was shot down in Europe before (in court)Mar 31 00:04balzacpolitics is about being willfully obtuse in order to represent the ignorance of the massesMar 31 00:06balzaceveryone who is embracing software patents is ignorant or willfully obtuseMar 31 00:07balzacHillary Clinton would support software patents with a mind-numbing slogan and a big grinMar 31 00:08MinceRgnMar 31 00:09schestowitzbalzac: help organise some digital protest against swpatsMar 31 00:10balzaclater MinceRMar 31 00:10schestowitzMake them nervousMar 31 00:10schestowitzThey are very afraid that the big lie will explode… like a bubbleMar 31 00:10balzacschestowitz: I have to focus on my work primarilyMar 31 00:10schestowitzIt’s a system of liesMar 31 00:10schestowitzWhere monopolies gainMar 31 00:10balzacbut I will oppose software patents by civil disobedience, should it come to thatMar 31 00:10schestowitzDo what Jon Loch did..Mar 31 00:10balzacDeliberately call attention to a specific “infringement” of their most cherished software patentMar 31 00:11balzacbut I don’t have the time to worry about that idiocyMar 31 00:12balzacno time for “angstivism”Mar 31 00:12balzacmust get money for strippers…Mar 31 00:12balzacRoy, I made up that wordMar 31 00:13Balrog_civil disobedience?Mar 31 00:13balzacangstivism – fruitless activism driven by angstMar 31 00:13balzacGeorge Soros is the opposite of an “angstivist”Mar 31 00:14balzacPETA is almost purely angstivismMar 31 00:14balzacFree Software advocacy is quite awesome and powerful activism, but there can be angsty overtones at timesMar 31 00:15balzacAl Gore does angstivism at timesMar 31 00:16balzacanyone who uses Paris Hilton as part of their socially-concerned activist shpiel is probably involved in some kind of angstivismMar 31 00:16balzacAl Gore couldn’t resistMar 31 00:16balzacThe artist, Banksy did it tooMar 31 00:17schestowitzAngst leads to goreMar 31 00:17balzacNader has many years of solid activism, but his recent run for president was pretty angstyMar 31 00:18balzacKucinich was betterMar 31 00:18balzacIf the FSF ponied up enough cash to hire Paris Hilton for a few spots, it would be excellent, but it’s counter-intuitive.Mar 31 00:20balzacSo many people would object, but they’d all be wrong.Mar 31 00:20schestowitzWhat does it have to do with celebrity icons?Mar 31 00:23balzacsuperficialityMar 31 00:24schestowitzPlastic surgery can’t buy the elections, not even in the USMar 31 00:24schestowitzA country can be reformed through education but not in a single generationMar 31 00:24schestowitzAs RMS called it, “mind-virus”Mar 31 00:24balzacI never heard Paris had any plastic surgeryMar 31 00:24schestowitzThat’s what I heardMar 31 00:24balzacwell, she looks hot to me, not a trainwreck – yetMar 31 00:24balzacsuperficiality, charisma, distraction, uselessness – these can be goodMar 31 00:26balzaclevity rather than the drama of a “purpose-driven” approachMar 31 00:26balzacexistentialism rather than progressive-ismMar 31 00:26schestowitzThere’s more to life than that.Mar 31 00:27schestowitzIt encourages dumbing down of the population as wellMar 31 00:27schestowitzGlorification of ignoranceMar 31 00:27balzacinstant gratification rather than incremental “progress” which ultimately never attains the stated goalMar 31 00:27balzacschestowitz: I would cite Lao Tzu’s Tao te Ching in defense of laziness, uselessness, and other things which can be virtues in the right contextMar 31 00:28balzacIt’s called the “dark virtue”Mar 31 00:29schestowitzLike war?Mar 31 00:29balzacnope, war is angst-drivenMar 31 00:29schestowitz“war is peace” –OrwellMar 31 00:29schestowitzWhy suffer the dperession?Mar 31 00:29schestowitzNo money?Mar 31 00:29schestowitzNo job?Mar 31 00:29schestowitzJoin the armyMar 31 00:29schestowitzFind friendsMar 31 00:29schestowitzGet bed and foodMar 31 00:29schestowitzget a big gunMar 31 00:30schestowitzEnjoy the battlefieldMar 31 00:30schestowitzShoot IraqisMar 31 00:30balzacwilhelm reich had some good insights on how problems of human psychology lead to warsMar 31 00:30schestowitzLike in CounterStrikeMar 31 00:30balzacsexual frustration being a key driving-forceMar 31 00:30schestowitzFreud worte about ti tooMar 31 00:30schestowitzBefore WW1Mar 31 00:30schestowitzAbout animal instincts that can erupt in menMar 31 00:30balzacschestowitz: the playing-field of sloganeering, propaganda, non-intellectualism cannot be ceded to those who are not sane enough to handle it responsiblyMar 31 00:31tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 00:31balzacif repressed, these animal instincts will erupt violentlyMar 31 00:31balzacthat’s why, non-intellectualism (not anti-intellectualism) must be acknowledged and acceptedMar 31 00:32schestowitzDid you see the Hitler Youth shouting deliriously?Mar 31 00:32schestowitzI wonder if there is group-think involved in these thingsMar 31 00:32schestowitzLike an infectious trend…peer minitationMar 31 00:33schestowitzimitationMar 31 00:33balzacyep, but that underlying angst combine with the purpose-driven mentality, conviction in self-rightousness, and willingness to use deadly force – those were the main problemsMar 31 00:33schestowitzThis works well with celebritiesMar 31 00:33balzacyou can see young people shouting deliriously at the superbowl, quite harmlesslyMar 31 00:33schestowitzOnce a person (like Hilton) is admired, the likelihood of admiration from another person grows greaterMar 31 00:33balzacbecause sport is existentialist, while social-agendas are purpose-drivenMar 31 00:34schestowitzThat tooMar 31 00:34schestowitzSports events can be tribal, by designMar 31 00:34schestowitznationalism or localismMar 31 00:34balzacnon-utilitarian lifestyle activities are keyMar 31 00:34*Hicham has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Mar 31 00:39balzacJoe Lewis beating Max Shmeling was an important victoryMar 31 00:39*Hicham (n=hicham@41.249.16.87) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 00:40schestowitzWhat’s what about?Mar 31 00:44balzacwhat I just mentioned?Mar 31 00:47balzacLewis beating Schmeling was a victory in a sport which struck a psychological blow to the advocates of eugenicsMar 31 00:48balzacit’s a good thing that fight happenedMar 31 00:48schestowitzAny video?Mar 31 00:50balzacthey had two fightsMar 31 00:50balzacschmeling beat joe lewis earlier in their careersMar 31 00:50balzacjoe lewis won the next fightMar 31 00:50balzaccheck it out on youtubeMar 31 00:50tacone (n=tacone@93-32-187-9.ip34.fastwebnet.it) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 00:52schestowitzwb, tacone Mar 31 00:53taconepidgin crashedMar 31 00:53schestowitzbalzac: I will do laterMar 31 00:53schestowitztacone: into a Windows (pigeon)Mar 31 00:54tacone?Mar 31 00:54taconewindows ?Mar 31 00:54Balrog_pidgin is linuxMar 31 00:57Balrog_for linux Mar 31 00:57taconelolMar 31 00:57taconeyou read my ctcp, right ?Mar 31 00:57tacone“Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 IRC ActiveX”Mar 31 00:58schestowitzI didn’tMar 31 01:00schestowitzI made a joke about a bird flying into a windowMar 31 01:00taconeohMar 31 01:01Balrog_tacone: why is that? are you using windows?Mar 31 01:01taconeno, a pidgin plugin that let you set what you want.Mar 31 01:01schestowitzSLED3.11?Mar 31 01:01Balrog_ah lolMar 31 01:01Balrog_that’s coolMar 31 01:01taconethat’s just a jokeMar 31 01:02taconebut i’ll have to powerup some windows vmMar 31 01:02taconeto try ubuntu portableMar 31 01:02taconei’m not a fan of colinux, but i think that would be a nice addition to the livecd, if mixing is technically possible.Mar 31 01:03schestowitzre swpats: I saw the page from Phipps and discussed it by E-mail with FFII folks. Update tomorrow.Mar 31 01:05schestowitzbalzac: Red Hat is not the bad guyMar 31 01:05schestowitzThere might be disinfoMar 31 01:05balzacRoy, I knowMar 31 01:06schestowitzStill negotiatedMar 31 01:07schestowitzSome competition there tooMar 31 01:07schestowitzRed Hat competitotsMar 31 01:07balzacBut we’re not having a slumber-party and playing with a miniature tea setMar 31 01:07balzacit’s fine to verbally rip whats-his-nameMar 31 01:07balzacRedhat CEOMar 31 01:07schestowitzgo to #boycottnovell-socialMar 31 01:08schestowitzI’ll post it thereMar 31 01:08balzacCEO’s often get to where they are by pounding their fists and yellingMar 31 01:08balzacso they can handle getting dissed on ircMar 31 01:08balzacI’m pretty pleased with the NYSE dealMar 31 01:08balzacI appreciate the executives who did that, including Whitehurst and even Fiorini (to whatever extent she was involved)Mar 31 01:09schestowitzI’m pasting it in #boycottnovell-social to avoid flood hereMar 31 01:09balzacok, I don’t need to carry on about itMar 31 01:10balzacfeel free to excise whatever you think is not relevant from your posted log filesMar 31 01:11balzacI ought to get back to work.Mar 31 01:12schestowitzDid you know OOo download pace doubled in less than a year? Was about 1.3m/week, now about 2.5,/week?Mar 31 01:12balzacgreat newsMar 31 01:12schestowitzPeople feel the pinchMar 31 01:12schestowitzSo they get The Dove (or Gull)Mar 31 01:13balzacwhat’s that?Mar 31 01:14balzacyou mean the logo of OOo ?Mar 31 01:16schestowitzYesMar 31 01:22schestowitzAlso blog nameMar 31 01:22schestowitzMain blog anywayMar 31 01:22schestowitzMicrosoft is therefore dumping MSOMar 31 01:22schestowitzI wrote about it this morning in BNMar 31 01:22balzacwowMar 31 01:23balzacArchaic software licenses and exorbitant prices are not sustainable… who could have predicted that?Mar 31 01:24balzacI saw you mention a correspondence from Tienman earlier.Mar 31 01:25balzachilarious graphics in your postings todayMar 31 01:27schestowitzWhich one?Mar 31 01:29balzacThe “Guppy” plane carpet-bombing peasants with the Marie Antoinette quoteMar 31 01:31balzacThe mono dialog boxMar 31 01:31balzacI like your use of imagechef too, for some nice decorationsMar 31 01:31schestowitzOOo downloads at  2,000,000-3,000,000 vs. “downloaded more than 1.2M times per week” Mar 31 01:31balzacI’ve been wondering if Sun would buy CanonicalMar 31 01:32taconeunlikely.Mar 31 01:32balzacso Sun would have something more current and conventional to offer than solarisMar 31 01:33balzacI didn’t enjoy Solaris much when I used itMar 31 01:33balzacand I don’t like the way Sun is making users fill out too many forms and log in to get downloads of their packagesMar 31 01:34balzacand handling the presentation of mysql in unconventional ways, man-handling it a bitMar 31 01:34balzactacone: why not?Mar 31 01:35balzacShuttleworth is too smart to sell out, probably.Mar 31 01:36balzache’s just finally had a profitable quarter, right?Mar 31 01:36taconei don’t think he wants money so badly.Mar 31 01:36balzaci agreeMar 31 01:36taconehe likes money, but don’t need it fast.Mar 31 01:36taconewould be stupid to sell a growing companyMar 31 01:36balzacwhat will Sun do about enterpise GNU and Linux?Mar 31 01:37taconeyou usually sell a growing company if you have no money and no longer want to work for the rest of your life.Mar 31 01:37balzacsurely opensolaris is not their answerMar 31 01:37schestowitzSUN is selling itselfMar 31 01:37schestowitzIt ain’t buyingMar 31 01:37taconei have no clue, but they would be better set trying to buy suse or any other smaller distroMar 31 01:37balzacbuy novell you mean?Mar 31 01:38taconeno, buy suse. why novell ?Mar 31 01:38balzacI didn’t know it was a companyMar 31 01:38taconei am fantasizing, of course.Mar 31 01:38balzachow about hire up the best suse devs and pry it away from novell?Mar 31 01:38balzacthat would suck for novellMar 31 01:38taconethat way you don’t get the communityMar 31 01:39taconeyou get a part. and flames after flames.Mar 31 01:39balzacwell, the suse community needs to be rescued from novell or it’ll just dissipateMar 31 01:39taconeshuttleworth posted on their mailing list some year ago, lolMar 31 01:39taconeschestowitz: remember ?Mar 31 01:39schestowitzYesMar 31 01:40schestowitzThey should go to themMar 31 01:40taconeto ubuntu you mean ?Mar 31 01:40schestowitzWell, someone from Red Hat mailed me because I asked them to hire sacked SUSE devsMar 31 01:40schestowitzSort of askedMar 31 01:40schestowitzBecause they hired Mandriva devsMar 31 01:40schestowitzAnd Red Hat is a growing company, so…Mar 31 01:40schestowitzI’m not sure Canonical is hiringMar 31 01:41taconewhat did he say ?Mar 31 01:41taconeyes, it’s hiring.Mar 31 01:41schestowitz“They’re working on it”Mar 31 01:41taconebut slowly.Mar 31 01:41taconewell, most hires are the one you don’t seeMar 31 01:41schestowitzSUSE has 2 teamsMar 31 01:41schestowitzThe Boston(ish) teamMar 31 01:41taconethey put together a design compartmentMar 31 01:41schestowitzAnd the German teamMar 31 01:41schestowitzGerman team does LinuxMar 31 01:41taconebut no one knows who they are, or at least, not me.Mar 31 01:41schestowitzUS team does Microsoft poisonwareMar 31 01:42schestowitzSo the Germans make good Linux, kernel, etcMar 31 01:42taconeand they hire brMar 31 01:42taconebut as for the engineers, they’re quite slowly paced.Mar 31 01:42schestowitzThen de Icaza and his losers come and put poison on top and sing about how glorious Ballmer is…Mar 31 01:42schestowitzSo it’s a good thing they are a long distance apartMar 31 01:42balzacI was rooting for John Schwarz from Sun to pull things together thereMar 31 01:42schestowitzNovell does nothing to SuSE (old S.u.S.E.) by ruin it for MS bribesMar 31 01:43schestowitz$100m was the last bribeMar 31 01:43schestowitz“Poison Linux, get cookie”Mar 31 01:43balzacSun should hire up some of these SuSE devsMar 31 01:43balzacget more serious about GNU & LinuxMar 31 01:43balzacand have a debian-based enterprise distroMar 31 01:43schestowitzWon’t happenMar 31 01:44schestowitzSUN gave upMar 31 01:44schestowitzThey put themselves up to be shoppedMar 31 01:44schestowitzSo they won’t gobble up or develop anythingMar 31 01:44balzacwhy, because they’re too emotionally attached to their proprietary unix legacy?Mar 31 01:44_Hicham_Solaris is deadMar 31 01:45balzachell, they should’ve released as much of it as legally possible under GPLv3Mar 31 01:45balzacand called Torvald’s bluffMar 31 01:45balzacThe CDDL just isn’t sexyMar 31 01:45balzacthe opensolaris community reminds me of an embittered former soviet republicMar 31 01:46balzacthat’s how I felt about the solaris bureaucracy in this company I worked atMar 31 01:46balzacthere were even some old grumpy guys unix from russia and eastern europeMar 31 01:47balzacI told one of my contacts there that their company is suffering “bureaucratic sclerosis”Mar 31 01:49balzacI know how to sweet-talk em. I bet they’ll be offering me a big signing bonus any time now…Mar 31 01:50schestowitzBalrog: he gave the Coke spielMar 31 01:50schestowitzAsking if it was indeed PepsiMar 31 01:50schestowitzbalzac: yes, solaris is like some buried nuclear missile from the 60sMar 31 01:52balzachehehMar 31 01:52balzacbunch of crusty guys, still manning their stations in the missile siloMar 31 01:52balzacThe first couple of phone meetings I had, they were talking about their “big iron” and “production environment” and policiesMar 31 01:54Balrog_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 01:54balzacbut Sun doesn’t maintain their repositories nearly as well as CanonicalMar 31 01:55Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-68-238-235-164.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 01:55balzacso it’s no picnic trying to get simple things done. I was somewhat more ignorant of sysadmin tasks, but I wasn’t there as a sysadmin.Mar 31 01:55balzacI was practically “hazed” by the unix bureaucracy because they found it hard to just get a proper webserver going.Mar 31 01:56schestowitzBalrog: can you do noise cancellation for background sound?Mar 31 01:56Balrog_asking me?Mar 31 01:56Balrog_no, unfortunatelyMar 31 01:56schestowitzbalzac: that’s why they call it Big IronMar 31 01:56Balrog_he used a mic, which led to echoMar 31 01:56oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 01:57schestowitzThat’s OKMar 31 01:57schestowitzCaused you asked for feedback/suggestionMar 31 01:57Balrog_if you know of a good filter (preferably one in mplayer) let me knowMar 31 01:57Balrog_yeah it’s okMar 31 01:57balzacI should be running their IT departmentMar 31 01:57Balrog_whose it dep’t?Mar 31 01:58balzacsome large company in manhattan which will remain namelessMar 31 01:58Balrog_heh okMar 31 01:58balzacschestowitz: I wish I had contacts inside RedhatMar 31 01:59oiaohmI wish I had a contact inside Redhat who liked me.Mar 31 02:00balzachonestly, i’m not completely opposed to the idea of RHCE for myselfMar 31 02:00oiaohmGot one that does not like me.Mar 31 02:00balzacbut some days I’m more cantankerous than othersMar 31 02:00oiaohmYou sound like me balzacMar 31 02:01Balrog_RHCE?Mar 31 02:01balzacso I say things bad anti-corporate things which would would make people’s eyes tear up for a secondMar 31 02:01balzacRedhat certified engineer, if I got their acronym rightMar 31 02:02oiaohmYep you got it right balzac I was just trying to type it.Mar 31 02:02Balrog_ah ok.Mar 31 02:02balzacThe McDonalds comparisons were probably regrettable in retrospectMar 31 02:02balzacI was pushing for Redhat in this company for their transaction serversMar 31 02:03oiaohmComparing redhat secuirty defects to windows ones was my regrettable in retrospectMar 31 02:03Balrog_explain.Mar 31 02:03oiaohmYou are aware that X11 in every before current Fedora runs as root Balrog_Mar 31 02:04Balrog_that’s not good!!!Mar 31 02:04balzacI just don’t know if I’d end up feeling like a got in the wrong lane while Canonical is growing quickly and I started trying to get socially integrated with Redhat people…Mar 31 02:04Balrog_is that necessary?Mar 31 02:04oiaohmIt was necessary due to poor design of X11Mar 31 02:05Balrog_ah.Mar 31 02:05balzacfor that matter, I’d be forsaking my neutrality as a consultant if I got a particular corporate certificationMar 31 02:05oiaohmI basically told them that they should not be claiming to be providing a secure desktop until they fixed X11 because the secuirty was basically just as stuffed as windows in GUI mode.Mar 31 02:05balzacI should just remain unaffiliated and try to build my consulting businessMar 31 02:05oiaohmNot a wise line to use.Mar 31 02:06oiaohmTrue but still not a wise line to use.Mar 31 02:06balzacIt’s good to be diplomaticMar 31 02:06balzacor else you can end up like the guy in office space who got his stapler confiscated and his cubicle moved to the basementMar 31 02:07oiaohmOne of my friends decriptins of me is.  If being diplomatic was using a small jewellers hammer.   Normally not diplomatic would be a sledhammer and that I am a building leveling recking ball.Mar 31 02:08oiaohmIts about true.  I normally say then think opps.Mar 31 02:08balzacoiaohm: I would offer you an unprofessional prescription of xanaxMar 31 02:09oiaohmIn the work I do being diplomatic don’t help.Mar 31 02:09balzacjkMar 31 02:09oiaohmIts more jump now.Mar 31 02:10oiaohmI get pulled out when anyone asks for a 100 percent truthful answer.Mar 31 02:12oiaohmMost of the time they regret it.Mar 31 02:12balzacthat’s a setupMar 31 02:12oiaohmRare cases they get prase for a good job.Mar 31 02:12balzacthe guys who summon you to be asked for the sincere response are mitigating their risk by delegating it to youMar 31 02:13balzacyou should ask them why they’re asking youMar 31 02:13oiaohmFunny part custommers normally ask for me as lead next time.Mar 31 02:14oiaohmMost of them are after the 100 percent truth no suger coating.Mar 31 02:14balzaclead dev/engineer or managerMar 31 02:14oiaohmSecuirty consultant and network designer.Mar 31 02:14balzacdo you get to delegate tasks?Mar 31 02:15oiaohmYep.Mar 31 02:15balzacthat’s importantMar 31 02:15balzacI got bogged down by not having the percieved stature to delegate muchMar 31 02:16oiaohmSecuirty being diplomatic with really don’t help.Mar 31 02:16oiaohmEither it working or it broken.Mar 31 02:16balzacI should learn more security stuff specifically in my sysadmin studiesMar 31 02:16balzaccredibility in IT security can’t be attained overnightMar 31 02:18schestowitzI was just thinking, what’s the likelihood of some WIndows nutter tossing an egg at RMS at a talk?Mar 31 02:18balzacthat would be hilariousMar 31 02:18schestowitzWould he duck like a sissy Ballmer (behind a table)?Mar 31 02:19balzacif it doesn’t happen, it should be staged by an agent provocateur in a suitMar 31 02:19balzacjk, eggs can actually be pretty bad to get hit byMar 31 02:19balzacI’d duck “like a sissy”Mar 31 02:19oiaohmHere goes my day off againMar 31 02:20oiaohmWhy do things have to screw up when I have a rostered day off.Mar 31 02:20balzacI thought it was amusing when that M$ guy won the auction for the stuffed GNUMar 31 02:20oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 02:21balzachttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v…  > “Actually, you’re going to f—ing kiss my a–.” ~ My response to him.Mar 31 05:27Omar87“Google’s not a real company. It’s a house of cards.” ~ Steve Ballmer —>> “Yeah, f—ing right.” ~ My response to him.Mar 31 05:29zer0c00l (n=student@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 05:31balzachahaMar 31 05:45balzacgotta love steve ballmerMar 31 05:45balzache’s one funny guyMar 31 05:45balzacand nobody can tell him he’s wrong or he’ll probably scare the crap out of themMar 31 05:46balzacbut those two weasels from google are too much for the bald, bewildered ballmerMar 31 05:47Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 06:09zer0c00l has quit (“classes”)Mar 31 07:01iwmw (n=iwmw@intech.natm.ru) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 07:49mib_fjg5u8 has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”)Mar 31 08:17schestowitzheyMar 31 08:48MinceRhayMar 31 08:54schestowitzI’ll do some posts soon.Mar 31 08:55mib_nl0399 (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52267e33e80c3311) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 09:59mib_nl0399 has quit (Client Quit)Mar 31 09:59ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 10:17ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has left #boycottnovellMar 31 10:17oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 10:38schestowitzBeranger is back on Linux: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2…Mar 31 10:45schestowitzhttp://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/20… http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/03/25…Mar 31 10:46schestowitzHis whole blog seems to be just about GNU/Linux. He couldn’t help it and he ran back to momma Linux.Mar 31 10:47MinceRlolMar 31 10:48MinceRlet me guess, he won’t write a post explaining how windows or whatever he went back crying to just didn’t cut it after allMar 31 10:49ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 10:51schestowitzMinceR: no, that would make the poster a “loser”Mar 31 11:02schestowitzMaybe he had a chance to see what a turd Windows is for everyday useMar 31 11:03kentma (n=user@host86-152-100-75.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 11:04ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has left #boycottnovellMar 31 11:31PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 11:32PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 11:32harrytuttle (i=528c0ab2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8e592e9444694366) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 11:35oiaohmI kinda annoyed him from the start of his windows cycle.Mar 31 11:38oiaohmReally did not like the point that after a while using windows faults of Linux would not seam that bad.Mar 31 11:38oiaohmNice we are staring to see MS drop departments they don’t think is important.Mar 31 11:43oiaohmQuestion is how long until they get back to the important stuff.Mar 31 11:43MinceRif he went back to linux, he certainly did see what a turd windows isMar 31 11:51MinceRthe lifecycle of ensemble studios was sadMar 31 11:51MinceRthey went well, then m$ bought them and then m$ killed themMar 31 11:51MinceReven though they didn’t even compete with m$.Mar 31 11:51oiaohmProblem is I have seen the s cycle of getting sick of lInux going to windows with hope.Mar 31 11:52oiaohmI did it once.Mar 31 11:52oiaohmNo way doing it twice.Mar 31 11:52schestowitzWhat about Mac OS?Mar 31 11:54schestowitzSay goodbye to Xen yet? http://boycottnovell.com/2009…Mar 31 11:54MinceRmacos isn’t even a contender :>Mar 31 11:55MinceR(unless all you need is an appliance, not a computer)Mar 31 11:55schestowitzAnd who on Earth would touch Mono after the TomTom case? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/3…Mar 31 11:55oiaohmI told beranger at one point he would be would be happier off with a Mac.Mar 31 11:55oiaohmI guess you have not been to recent Linux confs schestowitz.Mar 31 11:56schestowitzIn Romania, do they even have Apple shops?Mar 31 11:56oiaohmSome days the apple laptops walking around there out number every other kind.Mar 31 11:56schestowitzWith bad hardware (and no choice of hardware), the last thing one needs are these running expensesMar 31 11:56MinceRschestowitz: there are lots of idiots who would, i’m afraidMar 31 11:56oiaohmXen is not dead yet.Mar 31 11:56MinceRxen could be forked if anyone caredMar 31 11:56oiaohmEveryone keeps on pointing to the wrong think to kill Xen.Mar 31 11:57MinceRnenolod said he would if he had to Mar 31 11:57oiaohmIts not kvm it is Lguest.Mar 31 11:57oiaohmthink/thingMar 31 11:57MinceRlguest? never heard of itMar 31 11:57MinceR checksMar 31 11:57oiaohmIt is in the main Linux kernel MinceRMar 31 11:58MinceRi don’t quite understand what it doesMar 31 11:58MinceRhow is it different from KVM?Mar 31 11:58p42n8c (i=c910e07d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dc7f44b04e5e6c03) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 11:58p42n8c (i=c910e07d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dc7f44b04e5e6c03) has left #boycottnovellMar 31 11:59oiaohmhttp://beta.linuxfoundation.org/…Mar 31 11:59oiaohmLguest does not need cpu support MinceRMar 31 11:59oiaohmInstead is exactly like Xen paravirtualisation mode.Mar 31 11:59MinceRoh, so it runs xen-compatible paravirtualized guests?Mar 31 11:59oiaohmkvm lguest and qemu use the same paravirtualization methods.Mar 31 12:00oiaohmXen is the odd ball out.Mar 31 12:00zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 12:00oiaohmlguest supporting kernels can also boot without being contained where xen ones cannot.Mar 31 12:01ToreadorVampire (n=Toreador@cpc2-bsfd6-0-0-cust74.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 12:01ToreadorVampireOh haiMar 31 12:02MinceRicMar 31 12:02MinceRhay ToreadorVampire Mar 31 12:02ToreadorVampireSo this is where you hang out MinceR Mar 31 12:02MinceRthis is one of the 51 channels i hang out in, yes :>Mar 31 12:02ToreadorVampireHehMar 31 12:02MinceRthis lguest stuff looks interesting, i wonder when libvirt is going to start supporting itMar 31 12:03ToreadorVampireYeah, but I didn’t have you on freenode yet Mar 31 12:03schestowitzHi, ToreadorVampire Mar 31 12:05schestowitzoiaohm: Xen is messyMar 31 12:05schestowitzNot elegantly combined with LinuxMar 31 12:05schestowitzthw whole dom0 debateMar 31 12:05ToreadorVampireYo … mainly just poking my head in … semi-interested in the whole “mono patent trap” (since I’m a mono user), although not 100% sure how worried about it really need to be …Mar 31 12:07oiaohmLot of the Linux kernel developers think Xen should just come into alignment with the virtio drivers.Mar 31 12:08oiaohmMono is a patent trap.  The patent ensurance on it is only 5 years for patents that could last over 20.Mar 31 12:09oiaohmfirst patent/protection.Mar 31 12:10oiaohmIts not like following the .net path is required.Mar 31 12:10ToreadorVampireMmm, well – when it came to “new-school high-level oop language choice” I picked C#Mar 31 12:12ToreadorVampireSo mono looked really attractive to meMar 31 12:12schestowitzIt’s a bad habitMar 31 12:12schestowitzLike getting attracted to smokingMar 31 12:12schestowitzThe cost entailsMar 31 12:12oiaohmVala is also a great high level oop language.Mar 31 12:13oiaohmWith faster performance that .net can offer.Mar 31 12:13ToreadorVampireMmm, well – if the patent trap is scary enough, maybe I will look into moving to python …Mar 31 12:13MinceRso is c++ :>Mar 31 12:13oiaohmVala runs running around mono really.Mar 31 12:13oiaohmDarm I Have word drop.Mar 31 12:13oiaohmVala runs rings around  mono really.Mar 31 12:14oiaohmhttp://www.parrot.org/languages  For a engine running languages .net is not even that powerful.Mar 31 12:14oiaohmPeople refocus look whats around .net is not great.Mar 31 12:14MinceRhow’s LLVM going?Mar 31 12:16oiaohmStill improving.Mar 31 12:17oiaohmReally needs lot more language front ends.Mar 31 12:17oiaohmPut a parrot front end in llvm would be interesting.Mar 31 12:17MinceRMar 31 12:19iwmw has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 12:21MinceRi wonder how much would CIL over LLVM and .net -> parrot avoid the patent trapMar 31 12:22oiaohmThat is the thing everyone overlooks.Mar 31 12:22oiaohmCIL is simpler to reverse and rebuilt the applications.Mar 31 12:23oiaohmIts a case of developers being tricked into no more secrets.Mar 31 12:23MinceRwhat does everyone overlook? the possibility of doing so, the fact that it’s still vulnerable or the fact that the patents are avoided this way?Mar 31 12:24oiaohmSimple to avoid.Mar 31 12:24oiaohmYou can rebuild the applications in  patent free country.Mar 31 12:24oiaohmC# and the languages using CIL really don’t have any new features.Mar 31 12:25MinceRthat still prevents you from selling them in the usa, doesn’t it?Mar 31 12:25oiaohmOther than the back end engine.Mar 31 12:25oiaohmReally no MinceRMar 31 12:25MinceRalso, i don’t know how much the EU and Hungary is free of sw patents nowMar 31 12:25oiaohmCloning.Mar 31 12:25oiaohmIf you can document how an application works you can build a clone.Mar 31 12:26oiaohmCompared to ASM CIL is a walk in the park to disasm.Mar 31 12:26oiaohmClosed source guys are bacically going to wake up MS has backstab them.Mar 31 12:27MinceR“lguest (pronounced rʌs.ti’vai.zər)” Mar 31 12:27oiaohmLeaving them in a place open sourcing there code and not open sourcing there code make basically no difference to the protection they have.Mar 31 12:28oiaohm.Net trap is way more than patents.Mar 31 12:28oiaohmTeach students C# so students don’t have the skills to build a full OS independant to .net was MS idea.Mar 31 12:30oiaohmVala proves it possiable to build a C# releated language that builds to native code.Mar 31 12:31oiaohmSooner or latter MS will have rebelion form inside there .net users.Mar 31 12:31benJImanc# can be built to native code too. See sharpos.Mar 31 12:32benJImanOr singularity.Mar 31 12:33DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 12:36MinceRanything that doesn’t need its own OS?Mar 31 12:36oiaohmsharpos and singularity both are depending on ahead of time building.Mar 31 12:38oiaohmThe problem with both is .net is really a limited struct OS.Mar 31 12:39[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Mar 31 12:39oiaohmSo neither sharpos or singularity are truly independant of it.Mar 31 12:39benJImanWhta do you mean by “limited struct OS”?Mar 31 12:40oiaohmTake C for example.  It design can scale to any bit width processor.Mar 31 12:40DaemonFCWhat sucks is that most any distribution ships with MonoMar 31 12:40oiaohm.net not so much.Mar 31 12:40DaemonFCso you usually have to remove it by handMar 31 12:40*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovellMar 31 12:41ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerMar 31 12:41oiaohmYou have to remember 16 bit wide processors are still used in some places.Mar 31 12:41oiaohmC advantage for OS coding is it freedoms to be altered to match the platform you are using.   Even droping the ideas of any common functions and exception handling if that is more suitable.Mar 31 12:45DaemonFChttp://www.foxbusiness.com/story/…Mar 31 12:46DaemonFCFixed News apparently loves MonoMar 31 12:46schestowitzFixed Mar 31 12:47schestowitzGotta keep people’s control of computers out of this public arena…Mar 31 12:47schestowitzGet them addicted to MonioMar 31 12:47schestowitzThen pass them to .NETMar 31 12:47DaemonFCif Fox News tells you the sky is blue, you better damned well go out and make sureMar 31 12:48schestowitzEnvelope the resistors.Mar 31 12:48DaemonFCB-)Mar 31 12:48DaemonFCThey’re the Pravda of the Republican PartyMar 31 12:48DaemonFCmasquerading as a news networkMar 31 12:48schestowitzIt’s called News CorpMar 31 12:48schestowitzNews does not mean “truth”Mar 31 12:48schestowitzIt means new somethingMar 31 12:49schestowitzLike NEW talking pointMar 31 12:49schestowitzOr NEW pr[opaganda]Mar 31 12:49DaemonFCPravda was the name of the Soviet state news agencyMar 31 12:49DaemonFCMar 31 12:49schestowitzFOX NEWS =  new from FOXMar 31 12:49schestowitzFOX NEWS =  new from MurdochMar 31 12:49DaemonFCwhat’s hilarious is that the same company that runs crap kissing the ass of the Republicans also runs things like Family Guy on their other stationsMar 31 12:50schestowitzAnorher university has just sold out: http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cu…Mar 31 12:50DaemonFCnothing like selling to both sidesMar 31 12:50schestowitzzer0c00l: see this oneMar 31 12:50DaemonFCthat’s nothing I’m sureMar 31 12:50zer0c00lyesMar 31 12:50DaemonFCMicrosoft sells Windows and Office for $5Mar 31 12:51zer0c00lschestowitz, which oneMar 31 12:51DaemonFCin the university stores in IndianaMar 31 12:51zer0c00lokMar 31 12:51zer0c00lhttp://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cul…Mar 31 12:51zer0c00lschestowitz, lookingMar 31 12:51DaemonFCI bought a copy of Windows and Office in the student storeMar 31 12:51DaemonFCand ebayed themMar 31 12:52zer0c00llolMar 31 12:52DaemonFCMicrosoft bought me a few credit hours B-)Mar 31 12:52zer0c00lDaemonFC: you mean those keys are software?Mar 31 12:52DaemonFCthey sell you the disc + serialMar 31 12:53DaemonFCit says Student Edition on itMar 31 12:53DaemonFCbut it was really Windows XP ProMar 31 12:53zer0c00lhere they give keys for freeMar 31 12:53zer0c00ldisk we have to downloadMar 31 12:53DaemonFCbahMar 31 12:53zer0c00lbut with ELMS there is no need for download Mar 31 12:53oiaohmThe disk is 5 dollars.Mar 31 12:53DaemonFCsomeone asked me to try Windows 7Mar 31 12:53oiaohmLicence is nothing.Mar 31 12:54DaemonFCI told them I didn’t think it was worth a blank DVDMar 31 12:54oiaohmMS is really trying to hold on.Mar 31 12:54oiaohmAs makers of machines start demarding same kinds of deals MS profit streams are at risk.Mar 31 12:54schestowitzMicrosoft is just dumingMar 31 12:54schestowitzWhere is the business model?Mar 31 12:55schestowitzThey have none, I thinkMar 31 12:55DaemonFCwell, Linux set the price point of the netbookMar 31 12:55schestowitzThey admit to investors that it’s killing them.. sub-notebooks in particularMar 31 12:55oiaohmIdea is kill Linux.Mar 31 12:55DaemonFCand Microsoft must give Windows for freeMar 31 12:55oiaohmThen bring profit up.Mar 31 12:55schestowitzWindows revenue fell sharply.Mar 31 12:55DaemonFCto even have a presence thereMar 31 12:55DaemonFCthe netbook will bleed MicrosoftMar 31 12:55oiaohmDeath of Linux is not going to happen.Mar 31 12:55DaemonFCand lead them into an unprofitable war of attritionMar 31 12:55schestowitzoiaohm: they can’t kill LinuxMar 31 12:55schestowitzWatch PCLinuxOS 2009.1Mar 31 12:55oiaohmUni’s are not longer the power house of Linux.Mar 31 12:55schestowitzLinux is aheadMar 31 12:56schestowitzMicrosoft knows thisMar 31 12:56zer0c00lbut microsoft cannot give windows for free of cost all the timeMar 31 12:56schestowitzStaff exodus is tellingMar 31 12:56zer0c00lbecause it will affect their business a lotMar 31 12:56zer0c00lMar 31 12:56oiaohmThey need trained suckers.Mar 31 12:56schestowitzIt already does, so not “will”Mar 31 12:56oiaohmIe students.Mar 31 12:56schestowitzThey go into debtyMar 31 12:56schestowitzdebtMar 31 12:56DaemonFCzer0c00l: That’s what I mean, if they give it away free on millions of netbooks, and the netbooks are causing sales of normal laptops to declineMar 31 12:56oiaohmSo when boss asks them what software does X they answer Microsoft.Mar 31 12:56DaemonFCMar 31 12:57schestowitzoiaohm: not bound to always workMar 31 12:57schestowitzThey try to suffocate compettorsMar 31 12:57DaemonFCthen they could lose 10-15% of their Windows incomeMar 31 12:57schestowitzBut GNU/Linux is not a companyMar 31 12:57*kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 12:57DaemonFCjust because they can’t sell Windows on netbooksMar 31 12:57schestowitzoiaohm: you give them to much creditMar 31 12:57schestowitzAs though they are winningMar 31 12:57schestowitzIt’s very much the oppositeMar 31 12:57schestowitzHad they not dumped Windows, Linux would still dominate sub-notebooksMar 31 12:57oiaohmThere dumping is based on the old ideas that use to work.Mar 31 12:57DaemonFCwhich means they have to charge more for their other productsMar 31 12:57DaemonFCwhich turns mroe customers offMar 31 12:58schestowitzThat would ignite a chain reactionMar 31 12:58schestowitzEnd game.Mar 31 12:58schestowitzoiaohm: yes, like vs NetscapeMar 31 12:58schestowitzOr BorlandMar 31 12:58schestowitzBut these were COMPANIESMar 31 12:58DaemonFCso Ubuntu must kill them with Netbook RemixMar 31 12:58oiaohmDump hard into education and other markets sell in business.Mar 31 12:58oiaohmProblem is business is starting to grow a free mind.Mar 31 12:58DaemonFCMicrosoft has to dump Windows+Office on studentsMar 31 12:58oiaohmYep.Mar 31 12:59

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