[2023-10-29T01:36:12Z] phoebos: yes that's me

[2023-10-29T05:05:48Z] hi

[2023-10-29T05:05:55Z] <sad_plan> hi sewn

[2023-10-29T05:06:40Z] hi sad_plan

[2023-10-29T05:06:53Z] when will the libplacebo thing of mpv get merged

[2023-10-29T05:07:04Z] mpv cannot be built currently without it

[2023-10-29T05:07:48Z] <sad_plan> wym, I built mpv recently without issues. no libplacebo

[2023-10-29T05:07:57Z] <sad_plan> 0.36.0

[2023-10-29T05:08:28Z] phhhh

[2023-10-29T05:08:33Z] what

[2023-10-29T05:08:38Z] <sad_plan> :D

[2023-10-29T05:08:42Z] you're using kiss-xorg right

[2023-10-29T05:08:55Z] <sad_plan> my own

[2023-10-29T05:09:09Z] kiss-xorg uses git mpv for some stupid reason

[2023-10-29T05:09:12Z] <sad_plan> its not that different though. just disable couple more stuff

[2023-10-29T05:09:14Z] which breaks without libplacebo

[2023-10-29T05:09:23Z] hadn't realized repo uses stablr

[2023-10-29T05:09:39Z] <sad_plan> well there you have it :p

[2023-10-29T05:10:04Z] mpv releases once or twice a year

[2023-10-29T05:10:21Z] its been a few months since the last one

[2023-10-29T05:10:29Z] could release at any moment

[2023-10-29T05:12:23Z] <sad_plan> sure. one could also just pin to certain commits. I often do that to avoid the bs of having to reclone repos. which requires internet

[2023-10-29T05:12:46Z] my best guess is that stable mpv needs libplacebo as a subproject anyeay

[2023-10-29T05:13:21Z] but it doesn't require it as a subproject, more of a system library

[2023-10-29T05:13:46Z] and kiss doesn't like bundled packages (except compose-tables and xkeyboard-config)

[2023-10-29T07:01:11Z] anyone here familiar with bubblewrap?

[2023-10-29T07:01:20Z] testuse:

[2023-10-29T07:01:22Z] nvm hes not here

[2023-10-29T07:01:26Z] i think he is

[2023-10-29T07:01:46Z] I'm experiencing one of the strangest bugs...

[2023-10-29T07:01:50Z] what is it?

[2023-10-29T07:01:55Z] relevant code for anyone interested ~ https://github.com/ehawkvu/kiss.el/blob/0a958b4c212f8fa0ad59b17935ef2c3bd524bfca/kiss.el#L1207

[2023-10-29T07:02:14Z] so, right now I'm working on having builds that occur inside bubblewrap

[2023-10-29T07:02:28Z] is there no bwrap library

[2023-10-29T07:02:43Z] or are you unable to do that in listp

[2023-10-29T07:02:50Z] also wow i never knew this was that big

[2023-10-29T07:03:01Z] I'm shelling out to the cli so it's a non-issue

[2023-10-29T07:03:02Z] anyways

[2023-10-29T07:03:29Z] the first time that the code runs, it immediately fails, claiming that it is unable to find the package's build script

[2023-10-29T07:03:51Z] however, when you run the code a second time, it magically works

[2023-10-29T07:04:22Z] Maybe there's something I'm not understanding when it comes to how you are properly supposed to expose binds, but that behavior seems completely wrong

[2023-10-29T08:37:02Z] kisslinux has 49 members

[2023-10-29T08:37:06Z] i recall kisslinux having like alot more than that

[2023-10-29T09:47:47Z] I wonder where everyone went

[2023-10-29T09:48:03Z] it used to be super active back then!!!

[2023-10-29T14:20:09Z] <sad_plan> hi

[2023-10-29T14:21:05Z] <sad_plan> sewn: im asking myself the same question. used to me so much more activity here

[2023-10-29T14:22:00Z] sad_plan: hi. I hope you don't mind me staying here, as I am not using KISS Linux, just curious.

[2023-10-29T14:24:41Z] <sad_plan> ukky: I dont. I just pointed out that its alot less activity here now, than what it used to be

[2023-10-29T14:24:51Z] <sad_plan> why arent you using kiss though?

[2023-10-29T14:27:05Z] when time came to switch from previous distro, made a decision to try another distro first. But I like many features of KISS Linux.

[2023-10-29T14:28:22Z] <sad_plan> I see. what distro are you on now?

[2023-10-29T14:29:48Z] using CRUX now. switched from Gentoo.

[2023-10-29T14:32:22Z] <sad_plan> cool. never tried crux myself. can you use only personal ports on crux aswell as kiss' personal repos?

[2023-10-29T14:36:20Z] yes, you can. I modify a lot of official ports, plus create new ports.

[2023-10-29T14:40:51Z] <sad_plan> cool. its nice to see that other distros also allow aloot of user freedoms, in terms of customization

[2023-10-29T14:45:13Z] what is crux's package format? makefiles?

[2023-10-29T14:48:41Z] <sad_plan> i think theyre just called pkgfiles

[2023-10-29T14:48:56Z] main file is 'Pkgfile', which is sourced from a shell script. Pkgfile defines deps, optional deps, source locations, and build() function that compiles and creates files in package dir

[2023-10-29T15:11:34Z] which device manager is mostly used in kiss linux, mdev or udev? Does anybody use static /dev? Just curious.

[2023-10-29T15:22:16Z] <sad_plan> busybox's mdev is probably the most used, then comes mdevd.

[2023-10-29T15:22:28Z] <sad_plan> I personally dont use anything at all

[2023-10-29T15:27:50Z] I tried static /dev first, then moved onto busybox' mdev. Most crux users use eudev (default).

[2023-10-29T15:29:55Z] <sad_plan> I see. static /dev didnt cut it for you?

[2023-10-29T15:32:58Z] Static /dev was working well, I just like to experiment and find optimal solution. I might switch back to static /dev if something will bother me using mdev.

[2023-10-29T15:37:14Z] <sad_plan> sure. I personally dont need it, because I use tinyx, so the devices I use gets detected just fine without it

[2023-10-29T15:37:59Z] Switching from SystemV to Runit made my system boot faster, from 50 seconds to 10 seconds, measuring from starting /sbit/init to agetty login prompt.

[2023-10-29T15:40:29Z] <sad_plan> thats a really nice improvement

[2023-10-29T15:40:36Z] sad_plan: timyx, like from https://github.com/tinycorelinux/tinyx ?

[2023-10-29T15:40:44Z] <sad_plan> correct

[2023-10-29T15:40:54Z] cool

[2023-10-29T15:40:58Z] <sad_plan> statically linked however :D

[2023-10-29T15:41:50Z] Do you mean non-configurable, or 'gcc -static' ?

[2023-10-29T15:43:40Z] <sad_plan> gcc -static. although I now use -static-pie so that I can enable aslr or w/e it was called

[2023-10-29T15:45:07Z] Why static? It seems like everybody voices agains it?

[2023-10-29T15:45:53Z] I even disable '-static' for non-initramfs busybox build.

[2023-10-29T15:47:36Z] <sad_plan> why not? that is also part of why I enjoy it.

[2023-10-29T15:47:46Z] <sad_plan> static linking is also getting rather niche, which is something I can enjoy

[2023-10-29T15:47:55Z] <sad_plan> I also have none of the issues with abi instabilty

[2023-10-29T15:48:20Z] <sad_plan> I dont have to rebuild a package when a library gets updated an thus breaks several packages

[2023-10-29T15:48:27Z] of course, there are advantages to static linking

[2023-10-29T15:49:29Z] <sad_plan> yep. old system like plan9 iirc, is statically linked, so its somewhat a thing of the past. I does however require you to rebuild packages when libraries and such are updates, so it does take a more toll on your system. not that it matters to me

[2023-10-29T15:50:03Z] <sad_plan> for the most part I did initially just enjoy that I could remove aloot of packages which wasnt needed at runtime anymore due to static linking.

[2023-10-29T15:50:15Z] <sad_plan> potentially, I can even remove zlib

[2023-10-29T15:50:28Z] <sad_plan> with oasislinux, you can even skip having a libc

[2023-10-29T15:50:43Z] <sad_plan> that said, if you have a 100% statically linked system

[2023-10-29T15:53:28Z] <sad_plan> alot of people would probably scoff at that, and ask; why the hell would you even do that?

[2023-10-29T15:53:39Z] <sad_plan> my answer to this is simple; because I can

[2023-10-29T15:54:27Z] respect for going extra mile beyond what is considered normal/default

[2023-10-29T15:56:40Z] <sad_plan> yeah. my biggest hurdle is really the browser though. if you cant use mesa, available browsers is.. lacking.

[2023-10-29T15:57:10Z] <sad_plan> your mostly left with textbased browsers like links or lynx, or perhaps netsurf like oasis uses

[2023-10-29T15:58:27Z] /join #sourcemage

[2023-10-29T15:58:29Z] oops

[2023-10-29T16:00:03Z] yeah, most browsers have crazy dependencies. ATK, D-Bus, you name it

[2023-10-29T16:01:04Z] chromium and firefox doesnt need atk

[2023-10-29T16:01:05Z] nor dbus

[2023-10-29T16:01:12Z] they are optional, each provide their own notification handling

[2023-10-29T16:02:15Z] <sad_plan> I knoow.. theyre rather horrible, or I like firefox initially, but its horrible to build from scratch.. alot of work, and takes ages to build everything needed

[2023-10-29T16:02:37Z] <sad_plan> not that webkit is that much better though. actually has more deps, and takes just about the same time to build as firefox does

[2023-10-29T16:02:39Z] I couldn't remove sime stuff from chromium, but could remove ATK and D-Bus from firefox. Removing ATK from Gentoo was painful.

[2023-10-29T16:02:43Z] firefox takes 10 minutes chromium takes 3 hours

[2023-10-29T16:02:57Z] ukky: just do know that chromium needs atk actually

[2023-10-29T16:03:02Z] but in the build system it uses it doesnt require it

[2023-10-29T16:03:25Z] the atk patch in gtk+ just has stub functions which makes chromium die or gtk die (kiss-xorg #145)

[2023-10-29T16:03:25Z] <sad_plan> I cant help but feel that gentoo isnt always as user friendy when it comes to customizations..

[2023-10-29T16:03:45Z] gentoo: portage.conf edit

[2023-10-29T16:03:51Z] kisslinux: fork package, read build system flags

[2023-10-29T16:03:57Z] sewn: maybe ATK was the reason I could not use chromium on my setup after I removed ATK

[2023-10-29T16:04:09Z] yes, chromium on x11 without atk will do a segfault

[2023-10-29T16:04:12Z] <sad_plan> but in portage.conf, you can specify wether curl build with nls, correct?

[2023-10-29T16:04:19Z] <sad_plan> s/can/cant

[2023-10-29T16:04:28Z] what is nls?

[2023-10-29T16:04:52Z] <sad_plan> native language support. kiss removes it on more or less all packages upstream

[2023-10-29T16:05:02Z] <sad_plan> --disable-nls usually

[2023-10-29T16:05:09Z] gentoo is doing its bare minimum to 'support everyone'

[2023-10-29T16:05:11Z] Gentoo is very good at customization, but became overbloated to my taste.

[2023-10-29T16:05:15Z] which yknow i think nls is still important for them

[2023-10-29T16:05:20Z] i wish i had makeflags on kiss

[2023-10-29T16:06:13Z] <sad_plan> cant please everyone I suppose. or rather you can, by just giving the user the ability to choose for them selves, like KISS does

[2023-10-29T16:06:57Z] kiss is a meta-distro, its designed to be easy to fork so i cant really blame

[2023-10-29T16:07:13Z] <sad_plan> exacly.

[2023-10-29T16:07:36Z] <sad_plan> is there other meta distros really? or distros that specifically define themselfs as meta-distros

[2023-10-29T16:07:54Z] i dont know of any

[2023-10-29T16:10:53Z] <sad_plan> bedrock is appearently considered a meta-distro

[2023-10-29T16:11:44Z] <sad_plan> and mocaccinOS. never heard of it. is also a meta-distro. just looked up meta-distros

[2023-10-29T16:14:25Z] bedrock is like a table

[2023-10-29T16:14:39Z] you put prebuilt furnitures on it

[2023-10-29T16:14:48Z] kiss is a set of instructions, a plank of wood and some tools

[2023-10-29T16:16:04Z] sad_plan: Gentoo considers itself a metadistro: https://www.gentoo.org/get-started/about/

[2023-10-29T16:16:55Z] The Bedrock Linux project's definition of a metadistro also includes LFS, but I'm not sure if LFS considers themselves a metadistro: https://bedrocklinux.org/faq.html#what-is-meta

[2023-10-29T16:19:25Z] lfs is a 1000-page book of instructions, a plank of wood, and no tools

[2023-10-29T16:44:31Z] <sad_plan> so basically it means that the distro does not distrobute end-goal software. what

[2023-10-29T16:49:47Z] <sad_plan> that means that more or less all source-based distros are technically meta-distros, as they dont distrobute the software it self. atleast thats how I understand it

[2023-10-29T17:15:37Z] This is one of those things where you may not have clean groupings, and definitions here get blurry. Even non-meta "Linux distro" can be hard to define; Debian is usually categorized as such, but they offer non-Linux kernels like FreeBSD and HURD/Mach. But yes, I think the Bedrock definition would effectively include all source-based Linux distros (along with other not necessarily source based

[2023-10-29T17:15:43Z] projects).

[2023-10-29T17:21:45Z] <sad_plan> exacly

[2023-10-29T17:30:19Z] t