2021-03-25T01:22:42 #kisslinux what... happened here

2021-03-25T01:22:57 #kisslinux kiedtl: are you intentionally not op anymore?

2021-03-25T01:31:51 #kisslinux can't you hide op?

2021-03-25T01:32:14 #kisslinux acheam: chanserv didn't op me for some reason, but I still have op access

2021-03-25T01:32:28 #kisslinux Also midfavila through a tantrum because muh feelings >_>

2021-03-25T01:32:36 #kisslinux *threw

2021-03-25T01:33:15 #kisslinux i think he will be back in a few days

2021-03-25T01:33:38 #kisslinux I'd prefer that the other one came back over midfav

2021-03-25T01:33:46 #kisslinux but it'd be nice if they both came back, ofc

2021-03-25T01:33:52 #kisslinux deppy?

2021-03-25T01:33:55 #kisslinux Yes

2021-03-25T01:34:15 #kisslinux everyone's welcome

2021-03-25T01:34:29 #kisslinux Unfortunately so

2021-03-25T01:40:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> aren't you a diversity fan kiedtl

2021-03-25T01:40:52 #kisslinux oh yipee sh4rm4^bnc is here to give his opinion

2021-03-25T01:41:19 #kisslinux thanks kiedtl

2021-03-25T01:41:48 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> with 2.5 leftie ops here it's good to have at least one voice of reason :)

2021-03-25T01:42:38 #kisslinux new song, word!

2021-03-25T01:49:49 #kisslinux riscv would be kind of painful on kiss

2021-03-25T01:50:45 #kisslinux i would assume cross-compilation would make life a lot easier

2021-03-25T01:56:11 #kisslinux travankor: currently working on cross-compilation on my fork. Not on riscv yet, but may try it out if I can get a cheap board.

2021-03-25T02:05:25 #kisslinux great news!

2021-03-25T02:05:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> cross-compilation is hard even if you know what you're doing. took me about 3 years to get 90% of packages in sabotage to cross-compile...

2021-03-25T02:05:46 #kisslinux BeagleV seems like the best option as of now for RISC-v

2021-03-25T02:06:15 #kisslinux sh4rm4^bnc: not denying that, but it's still useful to have :)

2021-03-25T02:06:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> there's a good reason alpine has a datacenter with native build servers per arch...

2021-03-25T02:19:22 #kisslinux once my PR is merged, I think toybox install -t will finally work (used by some buildscripts I need) and I can finally swap to it from sbase (only other sbase command I have is tsort, cuz toybox doesn't have it)

2021-03-25T02:56:19 #kisslinux gl&hf

2021-03-25T02:56:26 #kisslinux that's all I can say

2021-03-25T03:00:35 #kisslinux <kiedtl "Also midfavila through a tantrum"> so that's why the signal-to-noise ratio of this channel improved

2021-03-25T03:01:13 #kisslinux anyway, time for the monthly rust update

2021-03-25T03:07:53 #kisslinux hehe

2021-03-25T03:09:19 #kisslinux konimex: i'm naively hoping gccrs can improve the situation

2021-03-25T03:10:19 #kisslinux gcc-rs is irrelevant to my situation though (and it's retarded that the rustc bootstrap still needs libgcc eventhough it uses LLVM IR)

2021-03-25T03:11:19 #kisslinux the rustc bootstrap still needs libgcc eventhough it uses LLVM IR -> explain?

2021-03-25T03:11:30 #kisslinux any gcc frontend needs libgcc

2021-03-25T03:11:37 #kisslinux afaik

2021-03-25T03:11:49 #kisslinux travankor: I'm talking about the canonical rustc implementation

2021-03-25T03:13:04 #kisslinux honestly, i forgot why rust needs libc and libgcc

2021-03-25T03:13:13 #kisslinux is it to abstract os details or smth?

2021-03-25T03:13:26 #kisslinux so to use rustc we had to download a binary rust-std, rustc, and cargo from previous version (see https://github.com/kiss-community/repo-main/blob/master/extra/rust/sources), but it dynamically links to libgcc

2021-03-25T03:13:37 #kisslinux well everything depends on libc, as for libgcc, iirc it's for unwinding

2021-03-25T03:14:13 #kisslinux konimex: i would argue non-C systems languages should not depend on C

2021-03-25T03:14:37 #kisslinux this is beyond my knowledge, but then how would it communicate to the kernel?

2021-03-25T03:14:52 #kisslinux through syscalls

2021-03-25T03:15:05 #kisslinux and syscalls are in C, right?

2021-03-25T03:15:23 #kisslinux nope, golang does this

2021-03-25T03:15:37 #kisslinux well partially does it

2021-03-25T03:18:16 #kisslinux https://github.com/golang/go/blob/master/src/syscall/mksyscall_libc.pl

2021-03-25T03:18:46 #kisslinux i think drew's language will not use libc since iirc drew compained about this

2021-03-25T03:19:02 #kisslinux s/this/this as well/

2021-03-25T03:19:04 #kisslinux i think drew's language will not use libc since iirc drew compained about this as well

2021-03-25T03:19:14 #kisslinux huh, ddevault is making his own lang?

2021-03-25T03:21:14 #kisslinux yes

2021-03-25T03:21:33 #kisslinux https://drewdevault.com/2021/03/19/A-new-systems-language.html

2021-03-25T03:24:10 #kisslinux and it uses qbe as the compiler backend

2021-03-25T03:25:21 #kisslinux http://c9x.me/compile/

2021-03-25T03:28:58 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> only problem with that is qbe supports only arm64 and amd64

2021-03-25T03:33:33 #kisslinux oh looks like bootstrap binary rustc-1.50.0 from upstream are good now (I can symlink libunwind.so.1 to libgcc.so.1 and play with LD_LIBRARY_PATH and it'll work now)

2021-03-25T03:59:20 #kisslinux Nice, will try that out also

2021-03-25T04:04:15 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hi

2021-03-25T04:11:00 #kisslinux Hmm no such luck on powerpc. "librustc_driver-4f3de2e4d077f02f.so: __gcc_qadd: symbol not found." That lives in libclang_rt.builtins-powerpc64le.a, so not sure how to fool rust in that case

2021-03-25T04:11:38 #kisslinux hey there testuser_[m]

2021-03-25T04:11:43 #kisslinux yeah I only tested it on x86_64

2021-03-25T08:15:37 #kisslinux konimex: what'd they change? Were they previously using symbols that compiler-rt/libunwind didn't provide but libgcc_s.so.1 did and aren't anymore?

2021-03-25T08:25:31 #kisslinux IIRC someone on a rust reddit comment mentioned that (i'm paraphrasing from what I remember) "once my PR lands on stable (1.49.0 or 1.50.0), llvm-libunwind should be able to substitute libgcc", however I have no idea which commit did the change (from a cursory search), and I forgot to bookmark the comment itself, so, as of now, no idea

2021-03-25T09:44:39 #kisslinux hiii!

2021-03-25T09:50:23 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hi

2021-03-25T10:00:39 #kisslinux https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2021/03/msg00083.html

2021-03-25T11:25:13 #kisslinux konimex: re qbe: not even aarch64, as support for that arch is incomplete at best... but apparently drew is patching qbe to support other arches

2021-03-25T11:25:52 #kisslinux Also I don't understand why the hell languages use syscalls instead of libc, you're just asking for trouble on platforms like windows or openbsd where the syscall numbers are scrambled on each release

2021-03-25T11:43:04 #kisslinux Apparently OpenBSD makes an exception for Go, lol

2021-03-25T11:43:05 #kisslinux https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/Go116OpenBSDUsesLibc

2021-03-25T12:06:04 #kisslinux because systems languages that aren't C shouldn't depend on C

2021-03-25T12:24:54 #kisslinux I mean, it doesn't hurt to do so

2021-03-25T12:26:51 #kisslinux why?

2021-03-25T12:26:58 #kisslinux imo travankor has a point here

2021-03-25T12:31:03 #kisslinux I don't see why one wouldn't leverage work done by the libc when you're likely to be calling into C anyway for bindings to other libraries

2021-03-25T12:31:13 #kisslinux Maybe I'm just being denser than usual?

2021-03-25T12:33:31 #kisslinux I see your point too

2021-03-25T12:34:07 #kisslinux the issue imo is that depending perpetually on c isn't that great of an idea if you're making a literal alternative to it

2021-03-25T12:34:48 #kisslinux interoperativity is good yes, but you shouln't make c an integral part of your own system language

2021-03-25T12:34:54 #kisslinux interoperability*

2021-03-25T12:36:26 #kisslinux I doubt C will ever go away though

2021-03-25T12:36:55 #kisslinux And C will always be an integral part of system languages if stuff like e.g. OpenSSL/libsodium/cryptostuff is written in C

2021-03-25T12:37:26 #kisslinux well, you gotta see it in the long term

2021-03-25T12:38:06 #kisslinux if one day there'l be finally the perfect replacement for c with memory safety and whatnot, people are gonna slowly rewrite those libs for that new language

2021-03-25T12:40:13 #kisslinux At that point, we can move to syscalls :)

2021-03-25T12:40:45 #kisslinux But I mean, like it or not you're going to be using libc if you want to run on windows/openbsd, so you may as well use it everywhere

2021-03-25T12:40:48 #kisslinux well, putting it this way it makes sense

2021-03-25T12:42:40 #kisslinux staying on topic, when do you think that there'll be finally the perfect c replacement?

2021-03-25T12:42:45 #kisslinux or at least, close to it

2021-03-25T12:43:04 #kisslinux rn there are like 453452359824 small languages aiming for that spot basically

2021-03-25T12:43:27 #kisslinux I think Zig will be an okayish replacement for C when it matures

2021-03-25T12:43:40 #kisslinux but like

2021-03-25T12:43:54 #kisslinux Just about all of C's "replacements" miss many benefits of C

2021-03-25T12:44:02 #kisslinux e.g. portability

2021-03-25T12:44:26 #kisslinux it's darn near impossible to compile a Zig program on a machine with little mem

2021-03-25T12:44:36 #kisslinux but I can compile C stuff on a raspi just fine

2021-03-25T12:44:37 #kisslinux oh, you mean portability in that sense

2021-03-25T12:44:47 #kisslinux yeah, portability across architectures

2021-03-25T12:45:07 #kisslinux no wait, you talked about compiling

2021-03-25T12:45:08 #kisslinux chilledfrogs: also install -dbg packages

2021-03-25T12:45:13 #kisslinux woops

2021-03-25T12:45:15 #kisslinux do you mean both compiling and running?

2021-03-25T12:45:25 #kisslinux Oh

2021-03-25T12:45:35 #kisslinux well, both

2021-03-25T12:45:47 #kisslinux they're two kind of different things imo

2021-03-25T12:45:51 #kisslinux kiedtl: isn't zig like that due to the llvm dependency

2021-03-25T12:45:59 #kisslinux The compiler should be portable across all architectures, and shouldn't make it painful to build on those arches

2021-03-25T12:46:23 #kisslinux travankor: I don't think so, clang works perfectly on my raspi (though a bit slower than gcc)

2021-03-25T12:46:38 #kisslinux I guess that's maybe an optimization issue?

2021-03-25T12:47:00 #kisslinux I don't know enough stuff about zig to say that, but isn't it like an issue of every new language?

2021-03-25T12:47:18 #kisslinux uh

2021-03-25T12:47:46 #kisslinux I be confuzzled, maybe I didn't phrase that correctly

2021-03-25T12:47:54 #kisslinux zig is still fairly young, i think they might rework how their compilers work

2021-03-25T12:48:10 #kisslinux More than that, they need closures

2021-03-25T12:48:20 #kisslinux Not having anonymous functions in 2021 is insanity

2021-03-25T12:48:56 #kisslinux I'm browsing their samples

2021-03-25T12:49:04 #kisslinux its syntax looks kinda weird

2021-03-25T12:49:28 #kisslinux i think zig has @ for imports

2021-03-25T12:49:39 #kisslinux wait, does zig have memory safety?

2021-03-25T12:49:44 #kisslinux no

2021-03-25T12:50:26 #kisslinux oh right, some "detections" it was talking about are like objects in the stdlib

2021-03-25T12:50:26 #kisslinux i think it has stronger type safety for some stuff

2021-03-25T12:50:51 #kisslinux I'm seeing weird question marks, does it have null safety?

2021-03-25T12:51:16 #kisslinux I don't know if that's the term, maybe it's that type safety you're talking about

2021-03-25T12:51:41 #kisslinux yes i think so

2021-03-25T12:51:43 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> wayland WM written in Zig: https://github.com/ifreund/river

2021-03-25T12:51:57 #kisslinux oh, cool

2021-03-25T12:51:59 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> if you want a "real world" example. no clue whether their code is quality or not

2021-03-25T12:52:13 #kisslinux I'm still failing to see its advantadges over c

2021-03-25T12:52:20 #kisslinux i think it's good but fairly immature

2021-03-25T12:52:24 #kisslinux It has namespacing, rit

2021-03-25T12:52:24 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> the creator gave a talk about it too... he explains why he chose zig

2021-03-25T12:52:33 #kisslinux that alone gives it a nice advantage

2021-03-25T12:52:34 #kisslinux I think I saw it

2021-03-25T12:52:44 #kisslinux he talked about exception handling IIRC

2021-03-25T12:53:06 #kisslinux module system, "generics", nicer type safety, safety checks, null safety

2021-03-25T12:53:23 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwrA5IRGpfU

2021-03-25T12:53:26 #kisslinux oh, safety checks?

2021-03-25T12:53:35 #kisslinux I didn't recall that

2021-03-25T12:53:46 #kisslinux lemme find a link

2021-03-25T12:54:42 #kisslinux https://lobste.rs/s/v5y4jb/how_safe_is_zig

2021-03-25T12:54:47 #kisslinux Oops, that's the lobsters link

2021-03-25T12:55:04 #kisslinux https://scattered-thoughts.net/writing/how-safe-is-zig/

2021-03-25T12:55:35 #kisslinux oh, so it has some memory safety

2021-03-25T12:56:51 #kisslinux the lobsters link says the main author plans to add more safety mechanism to the lang

2021-03-25T12:56:51 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://way-cooler.org/blog/2019/04/29/rewriting-way-cooler-in-c.html

2021-03-25T12:56:58 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> "I want to make one (mildly controversial) thing clear: rewriting a library for the sake of only using Rust is not good engineering. A literal rewrite of a project to Rust is not interesting, it’s not useful, it just causes churn and splits ecosystems. Time would be better spent either working with existing solutions that already have the effort

2021-03-25T12:56:58 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> put in to make them correct or to come up with new green-field projects."

2021-03-25T12:57:05 #kisslinux E5ten you're my hero with that toybox PR

2021-03-25T12:57:31 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> replace "rust" with whatever language of the month is in vogue

2021-03-25T12:57:58 #kisslinux ominous_anonymou: iirc rust has issues binding to wlroots

2021-03-25T12:58:11 #kisslinux i see

2021-03-25T12:58:13 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> yeah that way-cooler link goes into the issues he had

2021-03-25T12:58:19 #kisslinux to the point where it's easier to rewrite wlroots in rust :2021-03-25T12:58:23 #kisslinux yeah

2021-03-25T12:59:10 #kisslinux i would like to see what zig achieves for 1.0

2021-03-25T12:59:22 #kisslinux since many aspects of zig are still wip

2021-03-25T12:59:26 #kisslinux I see

2021-03-25T12:59:54 #kisslinux so afaict zig is like a comfier c with some modern features

2021-03-25T13:00:12 #kisslinux I saw a talk of zig's creator and never quite got it

2021-03-25T13:00:23 #kisslinux cool

2021-03-25T13:02:53 #kisslinux thanks for the explainations, first I wasn't so sure about this lang, but it really looks promising

2021-03-25T13:03:39 #kisslinux Zig should hopefully be coming to KISS in some form soon(tm)

2021-03-25T13:03:46 #kisslinux i kind of want to wait for 1.0 to ship before deciding

2021-03-25T13:03:48 #kisslinux My money is on this summer, but maybe sooner

2021-03-25T13:03:59 #kisslinux dilynm: how so?

2021-03-25T13:04:20 #kisslinux Mmatongo has been working on it with his kiss-lang repo

2021-03-25T13:04:30 #kisslinux oh, cool

2021-03-25T13:04:40 #kisslinux A pr got merged recently that should help, though you'd have to compile llvm yourself

2021-03-25T13:04:46 #kisslinux does it have a complex enviroment?

2021-03-25T13:04:51 #kisslinux oh, right, llvm

2021-03-25T13:05:05 #kisslinux With ~all~ the backends. Because... Reasons

2021-03-25T13:05:09 #kisslinux zig's planning to rework how their compilers work

2021-03-25T13:05:13 #kisslinux Yey

2021-03-25T13:05:22 #kisslinux what is planned to change?

2021-03-25T13:05:34 #kisslinux im not sure lol

2021-03-25T13:05:43 #kisslinux that's why i'm waiting for 1.0

2021-03-25T13:05:54 #kisslinux they advertise pretty heavily on their website that llvm is the key behind all of those optimization in the binaries that make it "faster than c"

2021-03-25T13:06:03 #kisslinux i'm quoting what they're saying, not moking them

2021-03-25T13:06:13 #kisslinux Llvm is pretty crazy

2021-03-25T13:06:31 #kisslinux LLVM is written in C++

2021-03-25T13:06:36 #kisslinux I've seen it everywhere, what does it do exactly?

2021-03-25T13:06:44 #kisslinux I tconverts an "AST" to machine code

2021-03-25T13:06:45 #kisslinux llvm?

2021-03-25T13:06:52 #kisslinux I thought it was like, just a compiler

2021-03-25T13:06:55 #kisslinux yeah

2021-03-25T13:06:57 #kisslinux It's a compiler backend

2021-03-25T13:07:04 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i wish llvm itself built faster :'(

2021-03-25T13:07:22 #kisslinux Remember when clang was better than gcc :v

2021-03-25T13:07:35 #kisslinux Teh compiler parses the language and gives llvm an intermediate form, llvm does the nitty-gritty work of translating it to machine code and optimizing it

2021-03-25T13:07:39 #kisslinux s/Teh/The

2021-03-25T13:07:40 #kisslinux The compiler parses the language and gives llvm an intermediate form, llvm does the nitty-gritty work of translating it to machine code and optimizing it

2021-03-25T13:07:43 #kisslinux oh cool

2021-03-25T13:07:48 #kisslinux I need to work on my typing speed/accuracy :V

2021-03-25T13:07:55 #kisslinux so it is a compiler, only an intermediate one

2021-03-25T13:08:02 #kisslinux err sort of :)

2021-03-25T13:08:08 #kisslinux imo qbe is cooler than llvm :V

2021-03-25T13:08:15 #kisslinux The wikipedia page does a super neat job of ELIundergraduate what LLVM is/does

2021-03-25T13:08:31 #kisslinux riteo: no you still need the "frontend" compiler

2021-03-25T13:08:57 #kisslinux oh, I see

2021-03-25T13:09:10 #kisslinux @dilynm: I'm opening it right now

2021-03-25T13:10:53 #kisslinux oh, it looks really cool

2021-03-25T13:11:10 #kisslinux konimex: how do you package the rustc cargo et al for wyverkiss, btw?

2021-03-25T13:13:17 #kisslinux travankor: qbe doesn't have any optimizations and only support x86_64 :V

2021-03-25T13:13:27 #kisslinux But hey, it's much faster and easier to build :)

2021-03-25T13:16:47 #kisslinux last question: does anybody know why llvm is so slow to compile?

2021-03-25T13:17:04 #kisslinux kiedtl: iirc qbe is similar to ggc -Os

2021-03-25T13:17:12 #kisslinux gcc* uggh

2021-03-25T13:17:26 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> good game compiler lol

2021-03-25T13:17:34 #kisslinux nice

2021-03-25T13:17:36 #kisslinux dilynm: well, Wyverkiss creates (or used to create, depending on how my compilation of rust 1.51.0 goes later) its own dist tarball that doesn't link dynamically to libgcc, and I use that in place of upstream's rustc bootstrap, otherwise should be identical to KISS

2021-03-25T13:18:03 #kisslinux I mean how do you make the dist tarball haha

2021-03-25T13:18:31 #kisslinux I just run ./x.py dist in the rust src

2021-03-25T13:18:43 #kisslinux Oh damn of course that's a thing they have

2021-03-25T13:27:18 #kisslinux riteo: llvm is written in C++, and C++ compilers are notoriously slow

2021-03-25T13:27:24 #kisslinux also, llvm is pretty big

2021-03-25T13:29:29 #kisslinux why though? Doesn't it just compile an intermediate rapresentation? Is it because it optimizes heavily?

2021-03-25T13:29:39 #kisslinux also, it depends on which part of LLVM you want to build, just libLLVM or including clang, mlir, flang, etc. (I haven't managed to build flang yet since it errored out and takes a lot of RAM using -j4, and also I really don't know why the hell did they not release a tarball for mlir)

2021-03-25T13:30:14 #kisslinux i see

2021-03-25T13:30:34 #kisslinux so llvm is a whole lot of stuff also not completely related to that, like clang

2021-03-25T13:30:48 #kisslinux at first I thought that llvm was like a collection of stuff centered around clang, not the way around lol

2021-03-25T13:30:56 #kisslinux Yeah, LLVM does very heavy optimizations of the intermediate stuff its given

2021-03-25T13:31:00 #kisslinux I see

2021-03-25T13:31:10 #kisslinux Also, LLVM supports a fuckton of arches

2021-03-25T13:31:30 #kisslinux well maybe thats an exaggeration

2021-03-25T13:32:27 #kisslinux I believe the correct number is 'perhaps too many'

2021-03-25T13:32:33 #kisslinux reading on wikipedia it supports quite a lot of them

2021-03-25T13:32:40 #kisslinux god, even webassembly

2021-03-25T13:33:00 #kisslinux Flang is not afaik usable in the same way gfortran is :X which is odd

2021-03-25T13:33:08 #kisslinux well, iirc it doesn't support some arches that gcc support (e.g. m68k? I kinda forgot)

2021-03-25T13:33:19 #kisslinux OpenSSL 3.0 soon :o

2021-03-25T13:33:28 #kisslinux konimex: is there foss fortran software you use?

2021-03-25T13:34:12 #kisslinux for now, no, but in the past I needed fortran for BLAS, which in turned used by numpy, etc. for my uni

2021-03-25T13:34:55 #kisslinux well, thanks a lot for answering all of my newbie questions, gtg now.

2021-03-25T13:35:06 #kisslinux bye!

2021-03-25T13:35:10 #kisslinux cya

2021-03-25T13:35:14 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> bye

2021-03-25T13:36:54 #kisslinux dilynm: that's odd, so it can't be used as a gfortran drop-in replacement?

2021-03-25T13:37:09 #kisslinux Not as far as I could work out

2021-03-25T13:37:35 #kisslinux I tried using it with R and it just... Wouldn't lol

2021-03-25T13:37:53 #kisslinux I had a mailing list post somewhere that detailed what flang was good for. Wonder where I put it

2021-03-25T13:44:17 #kisslinux Ah, a reddit post linked to from a homebrew article https://www.reddit.com/r/fortran/comments/k0xgmg/how_to_install_llvm11s_flang_on_macos_and_on/gdkv6wr?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

2021-03-25T13:45:53 #kisslinux ah so it isn't ready for production yet

2021-03-25T13:46:17 #kisslinux Surprising considering they delayed it's merger into llvm for 18 months

2021-03-25T13:46:25 #kisslinux You'd think that would be the reason but alas...

2021-03-25T14:25:42 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv/20210325.txt

2021-03-25T14:41:07 #kisslinux dilynm: how do you feel about adding somebody else as an admin for the domain?

2021-03-25T14:41:13 #kisslinux just to raise the bus factor

2021-03-25T14:42:54 #kisslinux I'm not sure how to do that without exposing my address to one of you chuckleheads :thinking:

2021-03-25T14:49:45 #kisslinux I promise not to doxx you?

2021-03-25T14:50:47 #kisslinux Lol

2021-03-25T14:51:20 #kisslinux What I really need is a deadmans switch that sends my passwords and useful information to a few people if I don't stop it

2021-03-25T14:54:14 #kisslinux "Bury me with my passwords!"

2021-03-25T14:55:51 #kisslinux hello

2021-03-25T14:55:57 #kisslinux https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2021-03-21-ssss.html

2021-03-25T14:56:08 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> hi claudia!

2021-03-25T14:56:20 #kisslinux this is an article about a program to share a secret >.>

2021-03-25T14:56:42 #kisslinux solene describes pretty much your usecase dilynm, no?

2021-03-25T14:57:14 #kisslinux aloha ominous_anonymou <.<

2021-03-25T14:58:52 #kisslinux It does indeed. Much like a horcrux

2021-03-25T14:58:53 #kisslinux https://github.com/jesseduffield/horcrux

2021-03-25T15:02:04 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i like how with horcrux, you can rebuild the original from a subset of the splits

2021-03-25T15:03:33 #kisslinux Which I prefer

2021-03-25T15:04:27 #kisslinux Solene's work just basically pushes the single point of failure down a ring, because you need all n people to put their magic rings together to make captain planet instead of n-m people

2021-03-25T15:07:05 #kisslinux Either solution has a tradeoff with a literal deadmans switch tho; if I'm garbage but not dead, they can't do anything in that case. But if the trusted people turn out to be evil, they can just megamind me out

2021-03-25T15:07:34 #kisslinux The way she demonstrates it yes. But you can use something like ssss -t 3 -n 5 . To make 5 shares, where 3 recreate.

2021-03-25T15:08:16 #kisslinux The cpt planet thing is the exact thing I like on this solution. Despite it seems to be a nice lowtech decentrialized solution.

2021-03-25T15:09:01 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> oh great, ok, good to know that ssss supports that as well

2021-03-25T15:10:04 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> could your deadmans switch just be a single password at that point, though? so like an encrypted file that ssss breaks into pieces, when they're put together you still have to decrypt the file

2021-03-25T15:12:01 #kisslinux http://point-at-infinity.org/ssss/ . Just a quick look at the project page.

2021-03-25T15:12:13 #kisslinux I have just tried it out. With 2 of 3

2021-03-25T15:12:35 #kisslinux Assuming I'm not overly busy tonight, I'll give this a good look and come up with a policy and stuff.

2021-03-25T15:13:39 #kisslinux https://p.teknik.io/FBMVU

2021-03-25T15:14:42 #kisslinux I would love to see the secret written on pergament paper with a red wax seal delivered in a wooden box :v

2021-03-25T15:15:10 #kisslinux Ssss is gpl. Rip unacceptable

2021-03-25T15:15:15 #kisslinux Also wtf "The software was written in 2006 by B. Poettering,"

2021-03-25T15:16:47 #kisslinux This was pre systemd.

2021-03-25T15:18:20 #kisslinux draco malfoy voice poeterring

2021-03-25T15:23:21 #kisslinux I still "have" to read this books :(

2021-03-25T15:25:38 #kisslinux They're so good

2021-03-25T15:25:41 #kisslinux Perfect 5/7

2021-03-25T15:37:50 #kisslinux A counter action to the anti RMS petition shared here a few days ago: https://github.com/rms-support-letter/rms-support-letter.github.io

2021-03-25T15:38:59 #kisslinux interestingly this one has more of a focus on individuals and not organization members

2021-03-25T15:41:44 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> if i'm kiss building a package that has a standalone install script that does a bunch of copies into /usr/bin/ and other places, how do i get that step done as root? is there a way to split it to the kiss install step?

2021-03-25T15:43:10 #kisslinux do you have to install it with that script?

2021-03-25T15:43:54 #kisslinux if you must, then you should be able to just prepend the command with "$KISS_SU"

2021-03-25T15:44:36 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> yes/no. i can do the copies manually or use install like some other build scripts do, but there's a... lot of them

2021-03-25T15:44:38 #kisslinux but it does break the "install to an archive, then extract it" methodology

2021-03-25T15:44:56 #kisslinux can you just sed them to "$1"?

2021-03-25T15:47:20 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> not sure tbh

2021-03-25T15:49:12 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://nim-lang.org/install_unix.html

2021-03-25T15:49:52 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> "The compiler and tool binaries live inside the bin directory" -- getting those into /usr/bin/ i guess

2021-03-25T15:50:31 #kisslinux i'd reccomend just packaging choosenim

2021-03-25T15:50:33 #kisslinux but idk

2021-03-25T15:50:33 #kisslinux https://github.com/archlinux/svntogit-community/blob/packages/nim/trunk/PKGBUILD

2021-03-25T15:50:53 #kisslinux They do cp and install many stuff manually to $1

2021-03-25T15:51:06 #kisslinux as usual, stealing from arch is the way :)

2021-03-25T15:51:18 #kisslinux s/arch/arch or void/

2021-03-25T15:51:20 #kisslinux as usual, stealing from arch or void is the way :)

2021-03-25T15:51:52 #kisslinux This is a hell lot

2021-03-25T15:52:17 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> yeah right

2021-03-25T15:52:33 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> it struck me as excessive

2021-03-25T15:59:04 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://github.com/mmatongo/kiss-lang/blob/master/languages/nim/build

2021-03-25T15:59:27 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> oh thanks, i didn't realize he had one set up

2021-03-25T16:04:52 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> rust 1.51 released

2021-03-25T16:05:51 #kisslinux dylin

2021-03-25T16:06:17 #kisslinux "Removing RMS will hurt FSF’s image and will deal a significant blow to the momentum of the free software movement." lel the FSF is garbage already they didn't need RMS' help

2021-03-25T16:06:36 #kisslinux The new tar don't let me su is this normal?

2021-03-25T16:06:49 #kisslinux What do you mean it doesn't let you?

2021-03-25T16:06:56 #kisslinux Okay

2021-03-25T16:07:06 #kisslinux I installed kiss 2 times this weeknd

2021-03-25T16:07:13 #kisslinux And in the 2 times

2021-03-25T16:07:26 #kisslinux Whem i do su in my commom user

2021-03-25T16:07:36 #kisslinux It says the password is incorrect

2021-03-25T16:07:42 #kisslinux But is correct

2021-03-25T16:07:49 #kisslinux Did you ever set a root password for root?

2021-03-25T16:07:54 #kisslinux Yes

2021-03-25T16:08:00 #kisslinux My root password is correct

2021-03-25T16:08:04 #kisslinux Does /etc/shadow or whatever actually show a password has been made?

2021-03-25T16:08:09 #kisslinux I enter in root with the password

2021-03-25T16:08:15 #kisslinux Hm

2021-03-25T16:08:23 #kisslinux I solved it with one command

2021-03-25T16:08:32 #kisslinux I just alert it for you

2021-03-25T16:08:37 #kisslinux Is strange

2021-03-25T16:09:51 #kisslinux chmod u+s /bin/su

2021-03-25T16:09:53 #kisslinux Solved

2021-03-25T16:10:17 #kisslinux Maybe is a bug

2021-03-25T16:10:50 #kisslinux Maybe is a good idea verify

2021-03-25T16:25:16 #kisslinux Hm. That should've already been done during the busybox build

2021-03-25T16:25:22 #kisslinux I'll take a peak, thanks

2021-03-25T16:49:51 #kisslinux apparently using upstream rustc tarball didn't work, since it added -lgcc_s to the build (it detected libgcc_s.so after all) -- https://termbin.com/dlop, I may need to fool the -lgcc_s flag to link to point to libunwind

2021-03-25T16:53:56 #kisslinux also, the upstream tarball is big, ~93M, my 1.50.0 build only weighed ~37M by comparison

2021-03-25T16:54:35 #kisslinux sed s/gcc_s/unwind/g :v

2021-03-25T16:54:43 #kisslinux Goodness. Whyyyyyyy

2021-03-25T16:55:32 #kisslinux yeah, where exactly should I put it though

2021-03-25T16:56:52 #kisslinux grep -r lgcc_s .

2021-03-25T16:56:54 #kisslinux Lol

2021-03-25T17:03:41 #kisslinux nope, nothing related to the problems I have (memchr and serde_derive from the earlier logs) https://termbin.com/no3k, apparently rustc bundles the full llvm source though

2021-03-25T17:17:38 #kisslinux https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/65051 make a new issue and mention this one. You shouldn't have to hamfist your unwind symbols into libc just to make rust go

2021-03-25T17:21:27 #kisslinux I wonder what the longest freenode uptime is?

2021-03-25T17:21:46 #kisslinux Theyre restarting servers because of that CVE no?

2021-03-25T17:27:31 #kisslinux ye

2021-03-25T17:37:54 #kisslinux hellboy2d: it is infact a problem with the tarball, it looks like. For some reason it wasn't suid. It will be fixed :)

2021-03-25T17:40:16 #kisslinux Thanks

2021-03-25T17:40:25 #kisslinux It be good helping you

2021-03-25T18:06:21 #kisslinux dilynm: it's merged now!

2021-03-25T18:06:22 #kisslinux let me know if you have any issues with it cuz I'm not 100% sure it's working completely correctly, but it seems to be

2021-03-25T19:53:21 #kisslinux let's see if rust builds :v

2021-03-25T19:54:19 #kisslinux e5ten: I'll let you know if I run into any problems :)

2021-03-25T20:36:45 #kisslinux built no problemo :v

2021-03-25T21:53:21 #kisslinux http://ix.io/2U5s I'm beginning to think that there's either a problem with my rust, or a problem with firefox

2021-03-25T21:53:49 #kisslinux this is with gtk+2 installed and not using the gtk2 patch

2021-03-25T21:54:21 #kisslinux in a clean chroot, CFLAGS are the usual kiss-chroot defaults. this is... bizarre

2021-03-25T21:58:57 #kisslinux > cannot find value AT_NULL in crate libc

2021-03-25T21:59:00 #kisslinux Maybe a musl thing?

2021-03-25T22:00:47 #kisslinux quite probably

2021-03-25T22:01:22 #kisslinux let's investigate mini_dump_writer_linux!

2021-03-25T22:01:47 #kisslinux https://github.com/msirringhaus/minidump_writer_linux/issues/4

2021-03-25T22:01:48 #kisslinux hey looky

2021-03-25T22:05:55 #kisslinux eh linked void issue; looks like they have a disable-minidump.patch

2021-03-25T22:06:03 #kisslinux neat