2020-11-02T00:01:18 #kisslinux what's even weirder is that stepping through it manually works just fine...

2020-11-02T00:07:13 #kisslinux i mean I'd imagine it still has something to do with decrementing the index

2020-11-02T00:07:22 #kisslinux entirely possible

2020-11-02T00:07:23 #kisslinux i feel like you'd want to use a different variable

2020-11-02T00:07:28 #kisslinux yeah, more than likely

2020-11-02T00:07:46 #kisslinux even if it's just p for pointer

2020-11-02T00:07:56 #kisslinux like you would just make w what x is for the loop and decrement w instead

2020-11-02T00:09:05 #kisslinux okay, waaaaait a minute, I see where some of the problems are coming from

2020-11-02T00:09:20 #kisslinux when yash is called from a script it works in a strictly posix mode

2020-11-02T00:09:25 #kisslinux so no expansion

2020-11-02T00:09:27 #kisslinux or anything

2020-11-02T00:09:29 #kisslinux hmm

2020-11-02T00:09:29 #kisslinux lmfaooooo

2020-11-02T00:09:30 #kisslinux :/

2020-11-02T00:09:35 #kisslinux that might be a bug

2020-11-02T00:09:39 #kisslinux so you could #!/bin/sh and yash $script

2020-11-02T00:09:52 #kisslinux god that's so janky

2020-11-02T00:15:21 #kisslinux the world is jank

2020-11-02T00:15:23 #kisslinux #ifitiworks

2020-11-02T00:15:33 #kisslinux ... I'm too intoxicated to type

2020-11-02T00:25:45 #kisslinux rip

2020-11-02T00:27:26 #kisslinux also, woot, got it working

2020-11-02T00:27:30 #kisslinux nicenicenice

2020-11-02T00:27:34 #kisslinux rewrote the script as purely posix

2020-11-02T00:27:44 #kisslinux so woot for portability I guess

2020-11-02T00:28:21 #kisslinux you're officially a neckbeard programmer, midfavila

2020-11-02T00:28:25 #kisslinux congratulations how does it feel

2020-11-02T00:28:30 #kisslinux underwhelming

2020-11-02T00:28:34 #kisslinux where's my 50k a year job

2020-11-02T00:28:43 #kisslinux and programmer socks

2020-11-02T00:32:15 #kisslinux man if i got 50k for this noise...

2020-11-02T00:33:29 #kisslinux apparently that's like

2020-11-02T00:33:29 #kisslinux the entry level wage for computer security work in my city

2020-11-02T00:33:54 #kisslinux average is closer to 87k

2020-11-02T00:44:40 #kisslinux gimme that job omg

2020-11-02T00:44:54 #kisslinux if you can afford to drop 24k on tuition :v

2020-11-02T00:45:15 #kisslinux I'm lucky enough to have a scholarship/sponsor/thing

2020-11-02T00:45:29 #kisslinux i've got two degrees and I can't even touch that much money in this position I'm in (:

2020-11-02T00:45:50 #kisslinux unlucky

2020-11-02T00:45:56 #kisslinux never lucky

2020-11-02T00:45:56 #kisslinux you could always do stuff on the side

2020-11-02T00:46:01 #kisslinux on like, hackerone or whatever

2020-11-02T00:46:03 #kisslinux mayhaps

2020-11-02T00:46:17 #kisslinux i spent eighteen months working at starbucks; i am the stereotype of my degrees lmao

2020-11-02T00:46:26 #kisslinux gender studies and philosophy?

2020-11-02T00:49:34 #kisslinux philosophy and maths

2020-11-02T00:49:41 #kisslinux Haha, 50% again

2020-11-02T00:49:47 #kisslinux although my philosophy focused a little bit on gender studies :P

2020-11-02T00:49:47 #kisslinux maths is interesting enough

2020-11-02T00:49:55 #kisslinux gender studies, not so much

2020-11-02T00:50:02 #kisslinux no offense

2020-11-02T00:50:02 #kisslinux :v

2020-11-02T00:50:11 #kisslinux lol

2020-11-02T00:50:17 #kisslinux i mean on my view gender studies is boring

2020-11-02T00:50:34 #kisslinux but that's just because gender is vacuous

2020-11-02T00:51:53 #kisslinux shrug

2020-11-02T00:52:15 #kisslinux precisely

2020-11-02T00:52:37 #kisslinux people get way too invested in this shit.

2020-11-02T00:52:39 #kisslinux just like

2020-11-02T00:52:41 #kisslinux v i b e

2020-11-02T00:52:49 #kisslinux lmfaoooooo

2020-11-02T00:52:59 #kisslinux embrace the Diogenes aesthetic

2020-11-02T00:53:00 #kisslinux if people accepted my view that's what the outcome would be xD

2020-11-02T00:53:07 #kisslinux a e s t h e t i c

2020-11-02T00:53:23 #kisslinux living-in-a-barrel-telling-Alexander-the-Great-to-fuck-off-aesthetic

2020-11-02T00:53:41 #kisslinux what a chad

2020-11-02T00:53:55 #kisslinux the first chad

2020-11-02T00:53:57 #kisslinux the original chad

2020-11-02T00:54:07 #kisslinux p much

2020-11-02T00:54:22 #kisslinux if you haven't read about Diogenes you should

2020-11-02T00:54:25 #kisslinux dude was fucking wild

2020-11-02T00:54:36 #kisslinux had all the chill

2020-11-02T00:55:02 #kisslinux i was a cynic for most of high school and college xD

2020-11-02T00:55:07 #kisslinux now wait

2020-11-02T00:55:19 #kisslinux cynicism is basically the definition of chill v i b e s

2020-11-02T00:55:23 #kisslinux cynic-cynic or kneeling-at-football-games-grumbling-at-tv-cynic

2020-11-02T00:55:35 #kisslinux philosophical cynic xD

2020-11-02T00:55:38 #kisslinux based

2020-11-02T00:55:42 #kisslinux i'm nothing if not rigorous

2020-11-02T00:56:02 #kisslinux I like a lot of what classical cynicism presents, at least in regards to minimalism

2020-11-02T00:56:05 #kisslinux in case you couldn't guess

2020-11-02T00:56:24 #kisslinux i feel like most of the #kisslinux community is similar

2020-11-02T00:56:37 #kisslinux ooo, we should have sunday funday philosophy nights

2020-11-02T00:56:59 #kisslinux i feel like that could get cancerous v fast xD

2020-11-02T00:57:07 #kisslinux honestly yeah

2020-11-02T00:57:16 #kisslinux I treat philosophies the same way I do religion

2020-11-02T00:57:55 #kisslinux although it's nice to be able to have an open discussion about both

2020-11-02T00:58:01 #kisslinux even if that's getting more and more rare as of late

2020-11-02T01:00:21 #kisslinux tbh it's never been possible to have such discussions

2020-11-02T01:00:34 #kisslinux at least not in my life since ~2008

2020-11-02T01:00:53 #kisslinux the only thing that has changed is the lack of interest in certain groups to engage at any level with any argument :S

2020-11-02T01:01:05 #kisslinux so if you find yourself in the right community, discussions can thrive

2020-11-02T01:01:11 #kisslinux but those are smaller and harder to find than before

2020-11-02T01:09:58 #kisslinux sorry for dying for a hot minute

2020-11-02T01:10:07 #kisslinux my home partition randomly decided to shit the bed

2020-11-02T01:10:17 #kisslinux and I had to unpack a backup archive

2020-11-02T01:10:52 #kisslinux thanks, XFS!

2020-11-02T01:12:51 #kisslinux i love that...

2020-11-02T01:13:27 #kisslinux was in the middle of improving that script from earlier, too

2020-11-02T01:13:32 #kisslinux and now I have to go see what's missing

2020-11-02T01:13:46 #kisslinux oh lordy

2020-11-02T01:14:11 #kisslinux I'm trying to get aplay to work with FVWM to play sounds on events

2020-11-02T01:14:21 #kisslinux but as far as I can tell aplay only likes wavs

2020-11-02T01:14:24 #kisslinux (hence the script)

2020-11-02T01:14:45 #kisslinux normally I'd use mplayer or mpv but spawning and killing instances every few seconds is not good for my CPU

2020-11-02T01:18:37 #kisslinux hmhmhm

2020-11-02T01:18:42 #kisslinux interesante

2020-11-02T01:19:17 #kisslinux something like that

2020-11-02T01:19:21 #kisslinux but also aplay is more portable

2020-11-02T01:19:26 #kisslinux which is a very nice bonus

2020-11-02T02:26:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> x=ls | grep aiff | wc -l

2020-11-02T02:26:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> for i in {1..$x}

2020-11-02T02:26:23 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> couldnt you just do for x in '*.aiff'

2020-11-02T02:26:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> uh, without the quotes actually

2020-11-02T02:26:45 #kisslinux ...can you?

2020-11-02T02:26:47 #kisslinux I had no idea

2020-11-02T02:26:54 #kisslinux I'm still learning a lot about scripting.

2020-11-02T02:27:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> thanks for mentioning yash though, seems like a nice shell

2020-11-02T02:27:19 #kisslinux It is!

2020-11-02T02:27:32 #kisslinux I'm still working out some of the quirks, but it's perfect for me

2020-11-02T02:27:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> binary size is a third of bash

2020-11-02T02:27:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i just ported my .bashrc to it

2020-11-02T02:27:55 #kisslinux close to dash in terms of speed by my estimate, but it still has plenty of nice features for interactive use

2020-11-02T02:28:00 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> had to remove a couple bashisms...

2020-11-02T02:29:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kinda unexpected that it doesnt recognize echo -ne

2020-11-02T02:30:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> how did you benchmark speed?

2020-11-02T02:31:15 #kisslinux Oh, it wasn't terribly intensive. I could run something more in-depth, but it's just based on my boot times

2020-11-02T02:31:29 #kisslinux under a different distro, mind. so it's mostly anecdote

2020-11-02T02:31:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you symlinked it to /bin/sh ?

2020-11-02T02:31:40 #kisslinux Yeah.

2020-11-02T02:31:49 #kisslinux I always link it to /bin/sh.

2020-11-02T02:32:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm using busybox ash for that, which should be almost like dash

2020-11-02T02:32:41 #kisslinux ash is more featureful than dash

2020-11-02T02:32:46 #kisslinux and thank god for that

2020-11-02T02:32:50 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> though its possible the busybox guys made some speed vs binary size compromises

2020-11-02T02:33:08 #kisslinux dash doesn't even have command editing support or history

2020-11-02T02:33:13 #kisslinux it's painful to use

2020-11-02T02:33:21 #kisslinux at least interactively

2020-11-02T02:33:28 #kisslinux which... admittedly isn't its purpose.

2020-11-02T02:33:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> isnt that the default shell on ubuntu

2020-11-02T02:33:43 #kisslinux Nope.

2020-11-02T02:33:50 #kisslinux Default shell on ubuntu for interactive use is bash

2020-11-02T02:33:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> no as sh

2020-11-02T02:34:01 #kisslinux I think they adopted dash as the default /bin/sh, tho

2020-11-02T02:34:10 #kisslinux since Debian did it.

2020-11-02T02:35:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> anyway try out for x in *.aiff ; do echo $x ; done

2020-11-02T02:36:09 #kisslinux ...huh!

2020-11-02T02:36:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> parsing ls output is super fragile

2020-11-02T02:37:28 #kisslinux Why's that, if I can ask?

2020-11-02T02:38:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> traditionally impls have different output, for example mine prints in 2 rows

2020-11-02T02:38:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> then there's spaces in filenames etc

2020-11-02T02:38:21 #kisslinux Ah, yeah. That makes sense

2020-11-02T02:39:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> s/rows/cols

2020-11-02T02:52:21 #kisslinux i think ls isn't allowed to use multiple columns when stdout is not a terminal (unless you pass certain options)

2020-11-02T02:52:44 #kisslinux but there are other issues with multibyte characters

2020-11-02T02:59:01 #kisslinux ubuntu made /bin/sh dash a long while back and made bash the interactive shell by default, mainly to speed up their init scripts

2020-11-02T02:59:04 #kisslinux it's what i did :X

2020-11-02T02:59:19 #kisslinux it's what everyone did, haha

2020-11-02T02:59:25 #kisslinux lol

2020-11-02T02:59:47 #kisslinux if you know the output of ls you're fine to use it; the problem is portability (hence the 'implentation dependence' claim)

2020-11-02T03:17:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> did someone compare dash vs ash perf ?

2020-11-02T03:18:03 #kisslinux i don't think so but I can't imagine ash nearly as fast as dash?

2020-11-02T03:18:10 #kisslinux id put it between dash and bash

2020-11-02T03:18:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> afaik bb ash is derived from dash

2020-11-02T03:19:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> whenever there's a security fix to dash, the same patch shows up in bb repo too

2020-11-02T03:19:40 #kisslinux https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/148035/is-dash-or-some-other-shell-faster-than-bash

2020-11-02T03:19:50 #kisslinux it's ever so slightly slower according to one benchmark

2020-11-02T03:20:20 #kisslinux ash is twice as fast as bash and 1.5 times slower than dash, based on that benchmark

2020-11-02T03:24:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> interesting

2020-11-02T03:25:36 #kisslinux > It has now been a year since I started working on KISS. The idea for the package format/system came to me in a dream the night before and I started work the next morning.

2020-11-02T03:25:46 #kisslinux Is that true? or was Dylan joking?

2020-11-02T03:25:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> sounds like a joke

2020-11-02T03:26:36 #kisslinux I hope so

2020-11-02T03:26:53 #kisslinux if not...

2020-11-02T03:27:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> "the idea to make kiss occured to me after 2 bottles of vodka"

2020-11-02T03:37:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> holy sh... that benchmark takes 7x more time with busybox sh than dash on my pc

2020-11-02T03:38:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> time to symlink dash then

2020-11-02T03:51:44 #kisslinux lmfao

2020-11-02T03:51:59 #kisslinux you know i wouldn't bet on dylan lying about the ideas that come to him...

2020-11-02T03:52:08 #kisslinux I wouldn't put it past him to be dramatic tho...

2020-11-02T03:57:59 #kisslinux I mean, I've had project ideas/magnificent revelations come to me just as I wake up.

2020-11-02T03:58:13 #kisslinux Not in a dream though... lol

2020-11-02T03:58:29 #kisslinux I once invented triangles in the space between wakingness and dreams

2020-11-02T03:59:04 #kisslinux "invented triangles"?

2020-11-02T03:59:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> oh yeah, those nice opium pipes...

2020-11-02T04:07:36 #kisslinux i was thinking about a super challenging abstract algebra problem

2020-11-02T04:07:55 #kisslinux and halfway between waking space and dream space i started moving my hands to visualize the problem

2020-11-02T04:08:04 #kisslinux and then i had an aha moment!

2020-11-02T04:08:18 #kisslinux and then i realized that I was just describing triangles

2020-11-02T04:12:07 #kisslinux You still can't use ls output because it might not output correct file names (e.g. if there's an unprintable character)

2020-11-02T04:17:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and anything you gotta escape, basically

2020-11-02T04:21:07 #kisslinux but he would know if that was the case

2020-11-02T04:21:21 #kisslinux ostensibly, becuase it's a script he wrote to manipulate files he named

2020-11-02T04:45:48 #kisslinux Sure but why not just use globs

2020-11-02T05:17:56 #kisslinux i mean, yes

2020-11-02T05:18:09 #kisslinux but if the outputs are known there's no real difference

2020-11-02T05:26:41 #kisslinux o/

2020-11-02T12:12:18 #kisslinux aloha

2020-11-02T15:57:52 #kisslinux o/

2020-11-02T17:09:04 #kisslinux o

2020-11-02T17:40:02 #kisslinux o/

2020-11-02T18:19:58 #kisslinux o/

2020-11-02T18:43:03 #kisslinux oh nice, k1ss.org is down again

2020-11-02T18:43:13 #kisslinux or rather, github is down.

2020-11-02T18:50:27 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]1> works for me kiedtl

2020-11-02T18:51:33 #kisslinux Yeah, it works for me now. Guess the unicorns surrendered

2020-11-02T21:04:14 #kisslinux kiedtl: What gemini client do you use? I was planning on using gmni but it doesn't compile due to what are probably libre/openSSL differences

2020-11-02T21:44:33 #kisslinux I use amfora, which is written in Go and is notable for it's good interface and nice set of features; there are, however, several other good options. AV-98 is (I think written in Python), and is a line-based gemini browser. Bollux is written in bash, but it requires the OpenSSL client (I suppose it could be made to work with libressl's equivalent tool, but I've never done that)

2020-11-02T21:44:59 #kisslinux Oh, and I forgot to mention bombadillo. there are quite a few gemini clients!

2020-11-02T21:45:01 #kisslinux himmalerin:

2020-11-02T22:20:01 #kisslinux you can use Castor too

2020-11-02T22:20:24 #kisslinux GTK+3, pretty sure it's written in Rust, fairly minimal interface

2020-11-02T22:20:28 #kisslinux nice and simple

2020-11-02T22:20:46 #kisslinux ^^ that too, but Castor is graphical and requires GTK

2020-11-02T22:20:59 #kisslinux oh lag

2020-11-02T22:22:36 #kisslinux honnestly my problem is that it uses 3 specifically

2020-11-02T22:22:39 #kisslinux honestly*

2020-11-02T22:22:46 #kisslinux I'm one of those losers who still clings to 2

2020-11-02T22:22:53 #kisslinux ...and Xaw, but we don't talk about that

2020-11-02T22:23:41 #kisslinux why, though?

2020-11-02T22:25:35 #kisslinux because I dislike the weird licensing system Qt has, not to mention that I always have performance issues (and it themes like shit). GTK3 on the other hand also has shit theming, and just... bluh.

2020-11-02T22:25:56 #kisslinux as for Xaw it's because I'm one of like two people who unironically use XDM, and FVWM still relies on it (or Xt... but who's keeping track)

2020-11-02T22:27:26 #kisslinux ...oh, and Qt takes nine billion years to compile

2020-11-02T22:59:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> midfavila +1

2020-11-02T22:59:29 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> qt==bloated C++ crap

2020-11-02T23:00:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i was actually thinking about creating some kind of compatibility layer which would allow to compile gtk+3 apps with gtk+2

2020-11-02T23:00:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> using some macro magic

2020-11-02T23:15:11 #kisslinux kiedtl: Thanks for the suggestions, I'll take a look