=> https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/xwim7v/updates_to_inactive_top_mod_removal_process/
created by kethryvis on 05/10/2022 at 18:39 UTC
327 upvotes, 44 top-level comments (showing 25)
Greetings and Salutations[1] everyone!
=> 1: https://i.redd.it/n4q4t6mj6wl11.gif
We know that having an inactive top mod on your subreddit can bring problems - for instance, a dormant top mod could return and upset the balance of both your modteam, and even of your community depending on the actions they take after a long time away. That’s why there has long been a process in r/redditrequest to allow modteams to request the removal of top moderators who have gone wholly inactive across Reddit. In 2017, we closed a gap[2] to ensure this process covered mods who are inactive in their particular subreddit but still active across Reddit as a whole.
It’s been five years since then and while the process has worked fairly well, we know we can improve on it. In talking with mods, top concerns included having a clearer definition of what we mean by “active”, as well as dealing with retaliation from top moderators who are the focus of this process. Because we heard from you that these were priority areas, we’ve focused on those points first.
You can read about the improvements we’ve made here[3]. In particular, you’ll find:
=> 3: https://www.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/wiki/top_mod_removal
And a few changes we’re making internally:
These are just the first steps in what we’re hoping will be further improvements. Other ideas we’re looking into (though we don’t have any roadmaps or specific timing yet) include:
One note: the top mod removal process is still a bit more onerous than the regular r/redditrequest process. This is by design; we want to make sure modteams are thinking through their decision to remove a mod, and understand the effects on their modteams going forward.
We’re hopeful that these changes will help mods feel more at ease when having conversations amongst themselves about mod activity, and helping lapsed top mods retire with grace.
I’ll be hanging out in the comments for a bit to answer your questions/concerns about this process as well as any feedback.
=> Comment by wishforagiraffe at 05/10/2022 at 19:01 UTC
119 upvotes, 5 direct replies
I really like the mod alumni/emeritus option, hope that moves forward.
=> Comment by manyamile at 05/10/2022 at 19:01 UTC
36 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Welcomed information. Thank you.
This is good to see:
More automation into the process: allowing mods to check eligibility of their top mod before making the request, improved submission process
=> Comment by CongressmanCoolRick at 05/10/2022 at 18:50 UTC
32 upvotes, 1 direct replies
So what does engaged with the community mean?
=> Comment by CryptoMaximalist at 06/10/2022 at 01:02 UTC
36 upvotes, 0 direct replies
In 2017, we closed a gap to ensure this process covered mods who are inactive in their particular subreddit but still active across Reddit as a whole.
In 2022 this gap was still there. Your documentation said "inactivity is not a sufficient reason for top mod removal", but it's actually the only reason admins seem to care about. So we did nothing about our 3 year inactive top mod until they came back to turn things upside down. Then our request was rejected out of hand because their malicious actions were "activity".
Then when his actions fell off the mod log you made us DM them again and they removed the entire mod team.
Stronger language around retaliation, making it clear how we define retaliation, and what consequences it can have
I would have thought getting rid of the entire mod team would have always been considered retaliation, but admins did nothing about it. Other mods have reported the same. Clarifying the language doesn't help if it's still toothless.
I 0% recommend this process to other mods unless the top mod is completely inactive and unreachable. Getting out from under them will require a migration to a new sub.
=> Comment by spaghetticatt at 05/10/2022 at 20:23 UTC
16 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Good to see changes. I had to deal with a top mod removal and was denied when they had one random approval in the modlog, and I was forced to wait months for the action to clear out of the modlog before I could resubmit. Honestly wonder if that helped set precedent here.
I still want to see the process expand beyond inactive/unengaged mods. This should be able to apply for active mods who violate any aspects of the Code of Conduct. Just my two cents.
=> Comment by SampleOfNone at 05/10/2022 at 19:29 UTC
13 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Redditrequest could use some clarification to the sidebar and bot for active mods who want a site wide inactive top mod removed.
So you want a link to a modmail we send to ourselves?
See how that can lead to not understanding that redditrequest should be used in this case.
=> Comment by sin-eater82 at 05/10/2022 at 20:29 UTC
35 upvotes, 3 direct replies
IMO, one of the things you need to change is having to contact the mod before or during the request process. This leads to the top mod suddenly starting to perform a bunch of mod actions (sometimes not aligned with what the active mod team has been doing for however long since they've been inactive), it can cause drama, and the potential for said top mod to cause damage. Honestly, in many cases, there is no good reason to have to copy them on the request.
I understand the "remember the human" aspect. But doing something without engaging them is NOT forgetting the human. And I understand the desire for people to try to talk it out. But in some cases, that attempt as been made (multiple times) without a reasonable resolution. There is no good reason admins cannot review the situation without the top mod becoming aware.
=> Comment by [deleted] at 06/10/2022 at 01:43 UTC
12 upvotes, 0 direct replies
[deleted]
=> Comment by OPINION_IS_UNPOPULAR at 05/10/2022 at 18:55 UTC
25 upvotes, 1 direct replies
A mod status of “alumni” or “emeritus” to honor longtime mods’ contributions to a subreddit even if they aren’t fully active anymore
When this happens, can you please provide us with a list of all previous mods so we can actively award those who deserve it?
Would love to give everyone who helped r/wallstreetbets grow over the past decade something to show for it.
=> Comment by AgentPeggyCarter at 05/10/2022 at 19:28 UTC
23 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'm glad to see this change. In one of the subs I moderate, the four mods above me are inactive. When I went through the redditrequest process for it, the moderator replied on the 5th day and added me as a moderator so Reddit took no action to remove them. I'm doing all the day to day and running this subreddit without the mods above me doing anything. The mod logs when I received the sub had the last mod action as 4 months prior and there were so many unanswered modmails and the modqueue was full of unactioned content. I've added another moderator to the team who helps when they can. The mods above us do not respond to mod mails/ mod discussion at all.
When I first got the sub, the moderator that responded to the redditrequest didn't want me to change the banner/CSS on old Reddit when a user from the community graciously made us a new banner. It's been like over six months and I've finally changed it to a seasonal banner and honestly fear some retaliation should I request their removal or should they see that the old banner/CSS has been changed. The moderator also has only made one action in the mod logs in order to stay active in the past three months (and it was something I had already approved). The other mods don't appear to have been active on Reddit for years.
=> Comment by [deleted] at 05/10/2022 at 20:21 UTC
8 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[removed]
=> Comment by Demilio55 at 05/10/2022 at 21:35 UTC*
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
More automation into the process: allowing mods to check eligibility of their top mod before making the request, improved submission process.
This would be great. Myself and the fellow mod team at /r/homegym have gone through this process 2 times already. The top mod has easily been inactive by these standards for 6 years at this point and it'd be great to know why the requests were not granted. From our point of view, it's someone who intentionally tries to maintain their mod status and avoid removal by doing 2-3 mod actions every month and has never been engaged with the community.
=> Comment by GuyOne at 06/10/2022 at 04:30 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Mod alumni is a great feature that should be implemented. One of the subs I mod has inactive mods that we ask once and awhile if they'd like to stay onboard. Granting them alumni would be the ultimate idea.
Also an honorary modship would be cool too. We've modded official actor accounts on r/thewalkingdead but it would be nice for them to have some type of honorary status instead.
=> Comment by HolyHorseCocksBatman at 06/10/2022 at 09:33 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The alumni/emeritus option is highly desired - this is a great idea.
=> Comment by Dwn_Wth_Vwls at 05/10/2022 at 21:44 UTC
11 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Why are some dead subs with inactive mods protected from Reddit Request? I requested a sub with restricted posts and 4 mods who all had suspended accounts. It was literally as dead as a sub can be. Despite this, my request was denied without an explanation given.
=> Comment by SecureThruObscure at 05/10/2022 at 19:04 UTC
22 upvotes, 1 direct replies
This ‘improvement’ does not provide clarity and is going to create a scenario in which mod infighting is going to be more common and difficult to handle in the team.
It also doesn’t address moderation teams who have created their own organizational schemes.
=> Comment by Mastershroom at 05/10/2022 at 21:03 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Would this be an avenue to deal with a subreddit whose top mod unilaterally decided to close the subreddit against the wishes of literally all the other mods and the users, but has otherwise remained an active redditor? It was literally a "I don't want to do this anymore but I don't want this place to live without me" ego trip.
=> Comment by slouchingtoepiphany at 05/10/2022 at 21:15 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'll believe it when I see it. I have had only one experience trying to help a sub (not take it over) since the mod team was inactive. The only responses I received were (a) a curt message from the top mod saying that other mods were active (not true) and (b) from the admins simple "no" and a boilerplate list of reasons about why it "might" have been denied. In terms of the new process, if none of the mods on a sub are active, I am not confident that this will work.
=> Comment by roxxxy39 at 05/10/2022 at 22:20 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
What would be the process to request reorganizing the mods order?
=> Comment by DarthMewtwo at 05/10/2022 at 23:10 UTC*
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
=> Comment by Milo-the-great at 06/10/2022 at 05:23 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Alumni mod sounds like it would be a great addition
=> Comment by cyanocobalamin at 06/10/2022 at 17:43 UTC*
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
It recently took me several months to get a subreddit.
The remaining mod was completely inactive in the community and on Reddit.
Every time I made a monthly request at redditrequest she would chime in to say that she was still on reddit( I am guessing redditrequest pinged her by email ) , that she would choose a new moderator herself, and then she would disappear for another month.
I don't think anything negative about her. I think she had real life issues to deal with.
If things were different redditrequest could have assigned a moderator and shortened the whole process.
Do the new guidelines address that type of frustrating situation?
=> Comment by CripzyChiken at 06/10/2022 at 22:49 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
can there be something about having a top mod that acts differently than the rest of the mod team. Someone who refuses to be involved in rules discussions and leading the sub, but still will randomly approve posts they like that goes against how the rest of the team has been running the sub in their absence?
Having "is active" as the only factor really hurts when someone is around once a week or so but refuses to participate in anything else ever since they got over ruled by the group 3 years ago. Actively approves comments/posts that go against the sub rules. And refuses to engage with the rest of the mod team when asked about their mod decision.
=> Comment by SpinToWin360 at 05/10/2022 at 19:48 UTC
10 upvotes, 1 direct replies
A tip from a lowly 2nd tier moderator: Get your “founder” or “alumni” mod status feature going before you displace a bunch of long-term mods.
It’s the right thing to do.
=> Comment by cyanocobalamin at 06/10/2022 at 21:34 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Many older subreddits still have automoderator as a moderator.
Getting automoderator removed as a mod can take weeks.
Please automate the processing of requests to remove automoderator as a mod.
Better yet, write a script to do that for all subreddits.
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