=> https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/hi3oht/update_to_our_content_policy/
created by spez on 29/06/2020 at 17:00 UTC*
21319 upvotes, 133 top-level comments (showing 25)
A few weeks ago[1], we committed to closing the gap between our values and our policies to explicitly address hate. After talking extensively with mods, outside organizations, and our own teams, we’re updating our content policy today and enforcing it (with your help).
Since our last post, here’s what we’ve been doing:
From our conversations with mods and outside experts, it’s clear that while we’ve gotten better in some areas—like actioning violations at the community level, scaling enforcement efforts[4], measurably reducing hateful experiences like harassment year over year[5]—we still have a long way to go to address the gaps in our policies and enforcement to date.
=> 2: https://redditblog.com/2020/06/10/reddit-welcomes-michael-seibel-to-board-of-directors/ | 3: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/hi3nkr/the_mod_conversations_that_went_into_todays | 4: https://www.reddit.com/r/redditsecurity/comments/hbiuas/reddit_security_report_june_18_2020/ | 5: https://www.adl.org/online-hate-2020#results
These include addressing questions our policies have left unanswered (like whether hate speech is allowed or even protected on Reddit), aspects of our product and mod tools that are still too easy for individual bad actors to abuse (inboxes, chats, modmail), and areas where we can do better to partner with our mods and communities who want to combat the same hateful conduct we do.
Ultimately, it’s our responsibility to support our communities by taking stronger action against those who try to weaponize parts of Reddit against other people. In the near term, this support will translate into some of the product work we discussed with mods. But it starts with dealing squarely with the hate we can mitigate today through our policies and enforcement.
This is the new content policy[6]. Here’s what’s different:
=> 6: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy
Alongside the change to the content policy, we are initially banning about 2000 subreddits, the vast majority of which are inactive. Of these communities, about 200[8] have more than 10 daily users. Both r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse were included.
=> 7: https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/rules-reporting/account-and-community-restrictions/promoting-hate-based-identity-or | 8: https://www.redditstatic.com/banned-subreddits-june-2020.txt
All communities on Reddit must abide by our content policy in good faith. We banned r/The_Donald because it has not done so, despite every opportunity. The community has consistently hosted and upvoted more rule-breaking content than average (Rule 1), antagonized us and other communities (Rules 2 and 8), and its mods have refused to meet our most basic expectations. Until now, we’ve worked in good faith to help them preserve the community as a space for its users—through warnings, mod changes, quarantining, and more.
Though smaller, r/ChapoTrapHouse was banned for similar reasons: They consistently host rule-breaking content and their mods have demonstrated no intention of reining in their community.
To be clear, views across the political spectrum are allowed on Reddit—but all communities must work within our policies and do so in good faith, without exception.
Our policies will never be perfect, with new edge cases that inevitably lead us to evolve them in the future. And as users, you will always have more context, community vernacular, and cultural values to inform the standards set within your communities than we as site admins or any AI ever could.
But just as our content moderation cannot scale effectively without your support, you need more support from us as well, and we admit we have fallen short towards this end. We are committed to working with you to combat the bad actors, abusive behaviors, and toxic communities that undermine our mission and get in the way of the creativity, discussions, and communities that bring us all to Reddit in the first place. We hope that our progress towards this commitment, with today’s update and those to come, makes Reddit a place you enjoy and are proud to be a part of for many years to come.
Edit: After digesting feedback, we made a clarifying change to our help center article for Promoting Hate Based on Identity or Vulnerability[9].
=> Comment by [deleted] at 29/06/2020 at 17:05 UTC
1672 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Why are the names of most subs censored
=> Comment by jomohoe at 29/06/2020 at 17:01 UTC*
5162 upvotes, 7 direct replies
Holy shit, I can't believe that initial post about the incoming ban wave wasn't a troll. Also, is there a comprehensive list of all the banned subs somewhere?
=> Comment by 1984IndianExmuslim at 30/06/2020 at 08:37 UTC
308 upvotes, 3 direct replies
I ~~have~~ had a tiny sub (less than 3000 subs) where exmuslims would post memes - r/exmemes.
There was no warning issued by the admins or any communication through out the sub's run. I found out the sub was banned the same way everyone else did.
It wasn't a hate sub. It was where exmuslims would post stupid memes about a religion that put them through hell and back.
The sub was about poking fun at the religion and those of its followers who imposed their beliefs on others.
I realise Reddit is an American website and that American Muslims are a minority that face discrimination and prejudice.
I also realise the Reddit admins (like most people) don't understand the paradoxical nature of the exmuslim experience. Exmuslims are an invisible minority within a minority. We face the same problems Muslims do and then some.
I also understand that it's no longer feasible for Reddit to continue ignoring the hate speech that was growing on the sub for years. The political climate has changed such that ignoring hate-speech will now affect Reddit's bottom-line.
I don't expect the Reddit admins to care about the fact that there are few anonymous mainstream sites where exmuslims can laugh about the insanity of their situations.
Like many Redditors, I continue to be disappointed about the direction Reddit is taking. Hate speech is a problem that needs to be dealt with but Reddit's continued bungling of the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
For the handful of users who frequented r/exmemes and felt it made them smile, thanks for visiting. Our problems don't seem as overwhelming when we can find a way to laugh at them. Take care.
=> Comment by Great_LD at 29/06/2020 at 17:08 UTC
3450 upvotes, 4 direct replies
What, if anything will be done about harassment from moderators and/or moderators abusing their power? I cant even find a good reliable way to report them, instead they are able to run rampant and make rules up on the fly and throw around bans and mutes like candy.
=> Comment by Shegham at 22/07/2020 at 01:26 UTC
52 upvotes, 1 direct replies
YOU HAVEN'T DONE SHIT TO ANY OF THE R/Politics Mods NOW GIVE ME A REAL HUMAN ANSWER ME u/spez -
Why won’t the admins address the most inciteful, violent, harassing, and brigading sub, /r/politics? They endorse this hate in their monthly mod newsletters. I remember /u/spez hates gays (remember pulse?) so when will he resign?
=> If we can eradicate... http://magaimg.net/img/6e09.png
=> Comment by TakeThatVonHabsburgs at 29/06/2020 at 17:01 UTC
716 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Holy moly that's a lot of banned subreddits.
=> Comment by CTAAH at 29/06/2020 at 17:41 UTC
711 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Hey everybody, remember when reddit did nothing for years on end about illegal child porn subs?
=> Comment by [deleted] at 30/06/2020 at 00:18 UTC
199 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
=> Comment by Twilight_Sniper at 29/06/2020 at 18:36 UTC*
877 upvotes, 4 direct replies
What about spam subreddits like r/RedditSteamTrade whose sole purpose is scamming? Are you going to do anything about those?
I reported this and other subreddits both through modmail, and emailing your zendesk address, and your admins told me to get lost with a form-letter reply[1] and then filed all further correspondence from me into the ignore bin.
=> 1: https://i.imgur.com/KT9XTrL.png
Me and my friends, with high profile and reputable Steam accounts, are being linked there along with the scammer's own throwaway, to legitimize the scammers' Steam accounts, who will then use their "Official Valve" Reddit wiki as proof of their "adminship" before phishing someone's account, then shifting the hate onto us when they delete the Steam account and swap it out for another. This hate brigade has been going on for years, and your admins will do NOTHING to stop it. I don't even accept friend requests anymore, because it's always some scam victim who either thinks I'm a part of Steam Support or that I'm a part of the group who scammed them.
=> Example scam page: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditSteamTrade/wiki/index
=> Comment by Anhapus at 29/06/2020 at 17:03 UTC
1172 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Imagine being on this thread so quick that the banned subreddits in question aren't even banned yet
=> Comment by Noreaga at 29/06/2020 at 17:33 UTC
927 upvotes, 8 direct replies
Make it easier to add Black moderators to a community. One mod suggested the potential of r/needablackmod instead of just r/needamod.
Is this a joke?
=> Comment by ComradeTrashcan at 29/06/2020 at 17:08 UTC*
3168 upvotes, 2 direct replies
So why do you never get an answer when you ask what content you upvoted that got you a 3 day suspension?
How is any user supposed to learn from that?
You obviously have the data, otherwise users wouldn't be getting suspended, so why not inform the users?
Edit: Stop guilding this shit and giving this company money. Jesus christ.
=> Comment by [deleted] at 30/06/2020 at 01:29 UTC
2163 upvotes, 8 direct replies
[deleted]
=> Comment by tilk-the-cyborg at 29/06/2020 at 18:02 UTC*
2008 upvotes, 10 direct replies
I have read your "Help Center" article. You say that "the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority". You don't define what "the majority" means. Is this the majority on Reddit? In the US? In the entire world? This changes things a lot. A typical Reddit user is male, for example, but in reality, (cis) male and female are almost equally numerous and both a majority. A typical Reddit user is (probably?) white, but in the entire world, actually the Chinese Asians are the biggest ethnic group.
Does that mean that hate against men is acceptable on Reddit? Or hate against women, for that matter, as women can be considered a majority just as men are? Is hate against Asians acceptable?
This a serious, sincere question.
=> Comment by j8sadm632b at 29/06/2020 at 18:17 UTC*
880 upvotes, 5 direct replies
While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority or who promote such attacks of hate.
What is your process for determining which groups are in the majority? Are you using global population statistics? Or, as it's a US-based site, are we using US census data? Will this be updated as demographics change?
I think to make this policy even more transparent, it might be nice to have a specific list of which groups are not covered, which is to say which groups of people can I create a community to promote hate against? Which actual and perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, immigration status, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, or disability status are we allowed to incite violence against?
Am I able to create a community dedicated to encouraging people go out and attack and kill people who aren't pregnant?
Edit: Per this comment[1] it seems like the violent portion is a no-go but a subreddit devoted towards making hateful content directed towards the "UNBRED" would be totally kosher.
=> 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/hi3oht/update_to_our_content_policy/fwe9te8/
Double edit: Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I think I'm broadly supportive of this except for the quoted bit. Just delete that. Why go out of your way to make the policy worse?
All of this is going to be decided on a case-by-case basis anyway, so the new policy is functionally indistinguishable from the old one. They just needed to "update" it to justify banning the subreddits they wanted to ban anyway.
But why specifically make it a point to say that there are SOME groups of people that you are allowed to single out and be hateful towards? Why can't it just be a blanket statement about everyone being cool? Why write a thing about how we don't want people harassed online because of things fundamental to themselves UNLESS there are a lot of them? Just delete the quoted part! What the fuck! It would take fewer words and less effort to have a better, more egalitarian policy.
=> Comment by [deleted] at 29/06/2020 at 21:03 UTC*
833 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
=> Comment by Jabahonki at 29/06/2020 at 17:20 UTC
3901 upvotes, 4 direct replies
But not r/Sino ? The Chinese government propaganda sub? The same government that is putting Muslims in concentration camps... spitting on the UNs UDHR? The same government that sanctioned Australia for calling for international investigations into the origin or the current pandemic were in? So trump propaganda bad, Chinese propaganda good? Am I getting this right, just for future reference.
=> Comment by [deleted] at 29/06/2020 at 17:05 UTC
330 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
=> Comment by jilinlii at 29/06/2020 at 17:56 UTC*
1627 upvotes, 8 direct replies
Regarding the updated terms:
Rule 1: Remember the human. Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Communities and people that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority or who promote such attacks of hate.
The second quoted section above is inconsistent with, “Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence.”
Yes, weed out the hate. But please be consistent. We’re all human, majority population (within our respective countries) or otherwise.
[ edit: formatting ]
[ edit: adding source for my quotes: https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/rules-reporting/account-and-community-restrictions/promoting-hate-based-identity-or ]
=> Comment by [deleted] at 29/06/2020 at 17:34 UTC
3660 upvotes, 9 direct replies
the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority
Say what?
The majority of whom and where?
Is it the majority of reddit users -- if so, what if the majority shifts due to changing demographics?
What characteristics are we including or excluding? What about people who are in some minority but otherwise part of "the majority"?
Is it simply location based and "American" is the majority? Or are we talking about subreddit per subreddit based? Are Chinese people a majority in Chinese subreddits?
This type of policy makes no sense and just opens up a giant can of worms. And honestly, it is a good indication that this website is about to spiral down when you start making rules that allow hate targeted towards people just because those people make up a majority. It's good to target hate and to try and minimize it on a website. It's not good to carve out rules for groups that are allowed to be targeted for hate though.
=> Comment by [deleted] at 29/06/2020 at 22:52 UTC
930 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
=> Comment by [deleted] at 29/06/2020 at 20:41 UTC
162 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Communities and people that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
Marginalized or vulnerable groups include, but are not limited to, groups based on their actual and perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, immigration status, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, or disability. These include victims of a major violent event and their families.
While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority
The fuck does this mean? Are you saying it’s okay to harass or incite violence against “the majority”?
Is the majority limited to race? Gender? Is it variable based on location (eg Han Chinese)?
=> Comment by s0lidsneak at 30/06/2020 at 01:50 UTC
29 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Reddit is a complete joke. You just finished digging your grave and I hope this shithole burns into nothing. You clearly favor censorship and trying to force your political views and attempting to sway elections over the use of the platform by the users. It is not your place to determine what is published on a platform. You should have minded your business. You should have accepted that America is built on a foundation of free speech and aligned your terms with the concept as well. It's the best thing in existence and allows for progress of everything. You clearly care more about being a tyrant than allowing people to discuss things. You don't allow consent and you have no clue what you're talking about.
=> Comment by wigsternm at 29/06/2020 at 17:10 UTC*
537 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Why blur banned subreddits after the top 10? I’m sure subs like /r/againsthatesubreddits or /r/watchredditdie are going to be able to compile some pretty comprehensive lists of banned subreddits (particularly the ones still in the 1,000s of active users), so why not get ahead of that here?
=> Comment by [deleted] at 29/06/2020 at 17:37 UTC
229 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I looked at your explanation of the new rule 1.
Remember the human... Communities and people that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.... For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority
I think it's odd that you explicitly say that it's not against the rules to promote hate as long as the target is a member of the majority.
I'd assume this means that it's ok to target women, but not men, since women are larger percentage of the population?
Also the majority changes based on where you live. If you're in Africa you can only target black people? If you're in Asia you can only target Asians? How does this work?
![/r/politics on the London attack: "I just hope the people who were on that bridge were redneck Republicans like you so the slaughter was justified." [+63] https://i.redd.it/1latls7dqeny.jpg](https://i.redd.it/1latls7dqeny.jpg){kind=link}
text/geminiThis content has been proxied by September (3851b).